Pro-drive EBCS - w or w/o pill?

[LittleBlueGT]

I found the older sheet, I thought I hadn't saved it. Purple is w/o pill, light blue is with pill.

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/BoostpumpJan26compare.jpg

[LittleBlueGT]

The kink in the curve should not be temperature dependent.

 

In both curves, it looks like the wastegate spring pressure is the same, about 10 psi.

 

 

I am not sure I follow you.

 

The kink in the curve is due to WG actuator reaction. I know that is not temp dependent. Earlier you had said it looked like the WG arm was tighter on the no pill run, then it was on the pill run.

 

I don't think I changed it. I was just showing this chart to show how my set-up responds when the temps are a bit colder. When it is colder yet I think I will hit a little over 16 psi, but I think my curve will be the same.

[rc0032]

Loosen the WG arm and do a run...its binding.

[Revolutions Performance]

Zero out the wastegate compensation (low) table and see ifyou still get the dip. If you do it's mechanical. If you don't it's in the tune.

[LittleBlueGT]

Loosen the WG arm and do a run...its binding.

 

I will in the future lower it a bit. You still think it is binding on the latest runs? There is no dip on the curve on the latest runs. The dip is only from older runs w/o a pill.

[LittleBlueGT]

Zero out the wastegate compensation (low) table and see ifyou still get the dip. If you do it's mechanical. If you don't it's in the tune.

 

As states earlier this is 0% WGDC.

 

Not that it matters, but my map is 0% WGDC, and my EBCS is disconnected via my alky system being turned off.

[Revolutions Performance]

Sorry, didn't notice that. Well, carry on then. Looks to me like the wastegate is binding if that's at 0% wgdc.

[LittleBlueGT]

Sorry, didn't notice that. Well, carry on then. Looks to me like the wastegate is binding if that's at 0% wgdc.

 

Even on the light blue run?

[Revolutions Performance]

Actually, the light blue run looks like regular old boost creep to me. The boost should hold whatever the wastegate spring pressure is (or lower as the turbo runs out of air) Boost should not be increasing unless the wastegate is not allowing enough exhaust by. Like he said earlier, loosen it up a turn or two just to make sure it's not binding and see if it gets better. If not you might have to port the housing some.

[Boostjunkie]

It's not creeping. He has a 15 psi actuator. With 0% WDC of course the boost will come in softer then hold more or less steady at the spring pressure.

[LittleBlueGT]

It's not creeping. He has a 15 psi actuator. With 0% WDC of course the boost will come in softer then hold more or less steady at the spring pressure.

 

The actuator is adjustable.

 

bbb has his adjusted down to around 8.5 psi. http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/mickeyd2005/bbbwgdc0.jpg

[SeeeeeYa]

Actually, the light blue run looks like regular old boost creep to me. The boost should hold whatever the wastegate spring pressure is (or lower as the turbo runs out of air) Boost should not be increasing unless the wastegate is not allowing enough exhaust by. Like he said earlier, loosen it up a turn or two just to make sure it's not binding and see if it gets better. If not you might have to port the housing some.

 

First, the AVO380 that I have has a perfectly "ported" WG entrance as an element of its design. It couldn't be better.

 

Second, this turbo has a perfectly aligned WGA/arm/WG geometry, unlike some of the strange configurations I've seen on other turbos. It will not bind.

[rc0032]

First, the AVO380 that I have has a perfectly "ported" WG entrance as an element of its design. It couldn't be better.

 

Second, this turbo has a perfectly aligned WGA/arm/WG geometry, unlike some of the strange configurations I've seen on other turbos. It will not bind.

So whats the answer? Mister AVO is perfict?

[LittleBlueGT]

So whats the answer? Mister AVO is perfict?

 

My turbo ain't perfect, it was the very first AVO400 (that became a 420 later on) then became a 380 with a hotside swap.

 

My turbo had a hole machined into the compressor cover (c/w threads and all), as if they drilled the hole for the vacuum line and went to far drilling two holes. No other AVO turbo had it, and it was a massive air-leak that Ralli-tek never ever noticed in testing. (that is why AVO's plots for the AVO380 show less then optimal midrange) I didn't notice it till I did a pressure test of my intake and it held no pressure at all, just wooooosh! Yes, plugging up that hole did wonders for my boost threshold and response. I am sure some of you are laughing now, but the boost leak was not loud at all, in fact, the car became louder with much more pronounced WG flutter after the leak was fixed.

 

So no, not perfect.

 

bbb's AVO380 seems to have nice WG action, although he modded his a bit. I actually have pics of his mods and copied some of them.

 

We will see when I try to hit 22.5 tapering to 19 again, in the spring. If I can get a real nice boost curve I won't worry about it anymore.

 

RC, quit changing your avatars, I can't keep track of you.

[rc0032]

 

RC, quit changing your avatars, I can't keep track of you.

15k+ post count and you can find me?

 

 

LBGT has a mechanical issue, at this point he needs to try everything 1 at a time till he figures it out. I gave what I think it is but then again im running a very small pill with the prodive which in theory you shouldn't have to do. But it works :shrug:

[LittleBlueGT]

15k+ post count and you can find me?

 

 

LBGT has a mechanical issue, at this point he needs to try everything 1 at a time till he figures it out. I gave what I think it is but then again im running a very small pill with the prodive which in theory you shouldn't have to do. But it works :shrug:

 

I can find you, even when I don't want to, I just don't always recognize you.

 

Your opinion was: I should try loosening it, or I am outside the efficiency range? (even though I was at just over 15 psi) You said both.

 

JK

 

 

I will be loosening it a bit in the near future.

[SeeeeeYa]

So whats the answer? Mister AVO is perfict?

 

Yep

 

The one I got is a later one, from the second GB.

 

It was a little while after I got it that I installed it. During that time I figured I would take care of things like the WG porting while it was out. Inspection revealed the casing had been designed to include changes to the entrance to the WG port that have been shown to be best.

 

As far as the WG arm, it acts directly in line with the WG from the WGA. Again, AVO had configured the WGA bracket for this optimum angle. Testing revealed the WG opened at..... 15psi.

 

BB Garrett CHRA. 44lb compressor. Much larger hotside than stock. Cast division between the turbine outlet and WG. Bolts on perfectly.

 

Works super low to high.

 

What's not to like.

[bugblatterbeast]

The actuator is adjustable.

 

bbb has his adjusted down to around 8.5 psi. http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/mickeyd2005/bbbwgdc0.jpg

 

It is actually adjusted down + a different diameter + relocated to prevent binding.

 

With the different actuator I have a larger actuator area to flapper door area ratio. Boost control gets easier as that ratio goes up as the exaust gas pressures have a smaller influence on the setpoint.

 

I emailed AVO about the bracket angles. Maybe they added the tweak to the next batch.

[LittleBlueGT]

It is actually adjusted down + a different diameter + relocated to prevent binding.

 

With the different actuator I have a larger actuator area to flapper door area ratio. Boost control gets easier as that ratio goes up as the exaust gas pressures have a smaller influence on the setpoint.

 

I emailed AVO about the bracket angles. Maybe they added the tweak to the next batch.

 

 

You think if they adjusted the actuator that they would have adjusted the oil line!

 

I think they are all the same.

[SeeeeeYa]

You think if they adjusted the actuator that they would have adjusted the oil line!

 

I think they are all the same.

 

Anticipating that I, too, would have oil line issues I sent a couple of emails to Rallitek about their crappy short line.... Sean sent me back his usual polite reply saying they had addressed that problem and I should be ok.

 

When I installed my AVO380 I found the supplied oil line did, in fact, fit perfectly, just as Sean had told me. I sent him a followup email thanking him and apologizing for my misplaced worry.

 

So, apparently all the bitching paid off, they supply a long oil line now that fits perfectly.

[LittleBlueGT]

Anticipating that I, too, would have oil line issues I sent a couple of emails to Rallitek about their crappy short line.... Sean sent me back his usual polite reply saying they had addressed that problem and I should be ok.

 

When I installed my AVO380 I found the supplied oil line did, in fact, fit perfectly, just as Sean had told me. I sent him a followup email thanking him and apologizing for my misplaced worry.

 

So, apparently all the bitching paid off, they supply a long oil line now that fits perfectly.

 

Cool.

 

I ain't complaining, just saying that they ain't perfect either.

 

If I had to do it all over again, I would likely buy the AVO380 again. Although I would consider BoostJunkies new line, mostly cause I would be able to get ceramic coatings and stuff easier.

[SeeeeeYa]

Cool.

 

I ain't complaining, just saying that they ain't perfect either.

 

If I had to do it all over again, I would likely buy the AVO380 again. Although I would consider BoostJunkies new line, mostly cause I would be able to get ceramic coatings and stuff easier.

 

Maybe it is my 'old school' roots showing , but I don't really trust coatings, especially ceramic coatings.

 

It is my experience that in time all coatings develop flaws, even the best. Ceramic coatings have been available on cookware 'forever.' These coatings have many virtues, but durability isn't one of them. Sooner or later a ding or improper heating causes the coating to fail. Other coatings on high temperature parts, like headers, eventually come to look like they have leprosy. Ugly.

[SeeeeeYa]

I found the older sheet, I thought I hadn't saved it. Purple is w/o pill, light blue is with pill.

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/BoostpumpJan26compare.jpg

 

I've waited until I had enough current data to comment on this.

 

Based on these past few days during which I have been fleshing out my AVO380 tune (now that I have a tranny ) I do not exhibit this 'dip' just after spoolup. I haven't zeroed out my WGDC, just regular tuning. My boost comes up to target and stays there.

 

This is perplexing since we have almost the same mods.

[LittleBlueGT]

I've waited until I had enough current data to comment on this.

 

Based on these past few days during which I have been fleshing out my AVO380 tune (now that I have a tranny ) I do not exhibit this 'dip' just after spoolup. I haven't zeroed out my WGDC, just regular tuning. My boost comes up to target and stays there.

 

This is perplexing since we have almost the same mods.

 

Do you have a CBE?

 

FWIW this dip is much more prevalent in the cold. I had the dip in the summer, but my WG has set to around 16 psi back then. Right now I don't think it will hold more then 12 psi in the summer.

 

Can you do a 0% WGDC log and post in or send it to me? Thanks.

[SeeeeeYa]

Do you have a CBE?

 

FWIW this dip is much more prevalent in the cold. I had the dip in the summer, but my WG has set to around 16 psi back then. Right now I don't think it will hold more then 12 psi in the summer.

 

Can you do a 0% WGDC log and post in or send it to me? Thanks.

 

Yes, I have the quad tipped Megan CBE.

 

Today it was mid 30'sF when I logged, no dip.

 

I will make an effort to do a 0% WGDC log, I've been so preoccupied with getting my tune done I haven't had time. I'm at a place I can do that, perhaps tomorrow. I'll send it to you as soon as I do.