Using Synthetic Oil

[hyteck9]

That Walmart SUperTech stuff is crap in my opinion. The stuff thins out so much when hot it can throw oil pressure dummy lights at hot idle. I've seen it first hand in NA cars, and hate to think what it would do in a turbo car.

[ehsnils]

The brand of oil shouldn't have any impact on oil consumption - the viscosity is more important - especially the high temperature viscosity. For the moment I'm running Mobil1 0W40 (was the available brand I could get my hands on with that viscosity - and actually not the most expensive alternative) and haven't noted any oil consumption problems or ill effects. At my last oil change I also changed the oil plug to a magnetic oil plug. This has two advantages, it will draw out any steel particles from the oil and it will catch any loose objects that can indicate that there is something bad coming up.

 

For turbo engines there is also another factor to consider and it is that when driving a turbo engine it shall always be given a mile or two of low load before the engine is stopped. It's even better if the engine is allowed to idle for a few moments too. This will allow the heat in the turbo to drop and prolong the life of the turbo. If this isn't considered the oil left in the turbo will overheat and coke (the black type found in tar - not the type you snort) is created in the turbo. This will have a bad impact on the lubrication of the turbo.

[Ronin Spec. B]

I switched to Mobil 1 5-30 oil in my 05 Impreza 2.5RS non-turbo at the first oil change at 2000 miles. The car continually burned up to 1 quart in 1000 miles even though it was not driven particularly hard. Two dealer service advisors have stated that I should not have used synthetic oil in the Subaru. I do use Mobil 1 in my other vehicles. the Impreza has since been totaled and I replaced it with a 2008 Legacy non-turbo. I've used conventional oil inthe first couple of oil changes and am gun shy about switching to Mobil 1. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

 

I took my 08 Spec. B in for it's 1st oil change at 2K and the service advisor told me that Subaru doesn't recommend using synth. but if you're gonna do it, to switch to synth. after 12k miles. After 12 yrs of working w/ Subies, they claimed they've never been able to tell the difference btw the two oil types. Plus Subaru recommends changing oil every 3750 miles anyway, no matter which oil you're using. Who knows. Good luck w/ your 08 Legacy.

[Lothar]

I took my 08 Spec. B in for it's 1st oil change at 2K and the service advisor told me that Subaru doesn't recommend using synth. but if you're gonna do it, to switch to synth. after 12k miles.

 

This comment made me go pull out my owner's manual (which applies to all 2007 Legacies and Outbacks) and see what Subaru's official recommendation is for Legacy owners... There is absolutely nothing in the manual that says that synthetic oil is not recommended. All it says is that the oil grade needs to be ILSAC GF-4 (which Mobil-1 is) or API classification SM labeled with the words "Energy Conserving." As for viscosity, 5W-30 oil is the preferred viscosity for all ambient temperatures except for people who live in desert areas or use their car for towing (it does specifically state that 5W-30 is preferred).

 

I can't imagine why Subaru would make one set of recommendations to car owners, and tell dealers something different.

[spect2k]

What the dealer told him was surely from his own experiences and his own opinion. I personally like to go on facts, and in the long run, synthetic oil is more expensive, yet yields better results for the engine - especially one that is turbo charged.

 

In regards to viscosity, I don't believe that there is much of a need to stray from the 5W-30 in normal conditions. The 5W is fine for me unless I lived in Canada or somewhere with extreme colds. The 30 is fine as well as long as you live in a temperate climate. If I lived in Death Valley, CA then I would up it to lets say 5W-40. This opinion of mine is based on normal driving conditions. If I were on a track or driving continuously with high RPMs, things would change. After all, these are street cars, not race cars - I feel that some people may take it to the extreme when such precautions (such as 15W-50 in a legacy...) need only be taken when racing.

[mccorry]

What the dealer told him was surely from his own experiences and his own opinion. I personally like to go on facts, and in the long run, synthetic oil is more expensive, yet yields better results for the engine - especially one that is turbo charged.

 

OK.... I have to ask.... how is this FACT? Have you done a labarotory study to determine bearing wear rates using different oils? I think not.

 

You are more than likely just regurgitating the marketing that has been pumped into your head via commercials.

[spect2k]

No. I have not done lab tests on the synthetic vs conventional oil. I am teacher, I don't do that stuff. However, there have been numerous tests conducted both short term, long term, and whatever others tests they do and all tests have yielded that the synthetic oil is a generally better oil for the engine. I've read it in car magazines, consumer magazines, and online. Take a look.

[L7GT]

Bottom line is I wont use what SOA doesnt reccomend.

[spect2k]

Bottom line is I wont use what SOA doesnt reccomend.

 

Not a bad idea. Obviously Subaru puts tons of time and energy into their engineering and they make darn good cars, they must be doing something right. Anyway, they will of course honor any warranty issues if they were to arise:).

[mccorry]

No. I have not done lab tests on the synthetic vs conventional oil. I am teacher, I don't do that stuff. However, there have been numerous tests conducted both short term, long term, and whatever others tests they do and all tests have yielded that the synthetic oil is a generally better oil for the engine. I've read it in car magazines, consumer magazines, and online. Take a look.

 

Well... not trying to be difficult... but I work on cars all the friggin time..... and I use dino oil..... Does that mean I am ignorant? I don't think so. My experience has taught me to believe results... not marketing. I've torn apart engines that have 150,000 - 200,000 miles on them and seen no adverse effects (other than varnish discoloration). I've seen engines last well into their 240,000-250,000 mile range on a life long diet of dino oil.

 

My point is.... if you take care of your car, watch and maintain your fluid levels, and are diligent about your OCI's and maintenance.... any difference between conventional and synthetic oil is negliable.

[PhilT]

No. I have not done lab tests on the synthetic vs conventional oil. I am teacher, I don't do that stuff. However, there have been numerous tests conducted both short term, long term, and whatever others tests they do and all tests have yielded that the synthetic oil is a generally better oil for the engine. I've read it in car magazines, consumer magazines, and online. Take a look.

 

If dino oil is so bad, why is it specified for the most powerful reciprocating engine ever made ? huh, huh ?

 

[krzyss]

You've got 422 posts and don't know?

 

Subaru has replaced many turbos under warranty because people don't understand that turbocharged engines are tougher on oil. Many owners take the OCI and stretch it out - on shit oil.

 

Your turbo has a tiny in-line oil screen on the turbo oil supply line that can clog. If it does, kiss your turbo bearings and possibly other components good bye.

 

Subaru specified 5W30 oil that meets ILSAC GF-3, API SL. It can be canola, olive, petroleum or synthetic. They do not say. For 2005 OCI is 7.5K miles unless:

- repeated short distance driving (I have 50 miles one way commute)

- driving in extremely cold weather (MA is rarely extremely cold)

- towing a trailer (I have no hitch)

 

As far as I can tell I qualify for normal duty. I have all receipts for all oil changes for my 70000 miles in 3 years.

 

What I think happened is very similar to what happened with VW 1.8T engine. They underspecified the oil and now 1.8T engine is known as sludge maker (my has 82000 miles with Mobil 1 0W40 each 5K miles). Now VW states clearly that oil MUST meet VW private oil spec 502.01 or it is useless.

 

Subaru OCI of 7500 miles is probably fine IF one uses good or very good oil. Unluckily SOA chose not to specify this so they saw a spike in turbo failures. Their solution is to reduce OCI (the green company has bad CAFE and now it lowers OCI ;-) instead of specifying oil that can do the job.

 

I called dealer in my home country (Poland) and for 2007 Forester XT they use 5W30 or 15W50 oils with 15000 km OCI. It is roughly 9000 miles.

 

Krzys

 

PS I was using Mobil 1 5W30, no noticeable oil consumption. I am switching to Castrol Syntec 0W30 aka GC 0W30.

[spect2k]

Well... not trying to be difficult... but I work on cars all the friggin time..... and I use dino oil..... Does that mean I am ignorant? I don't think so. My experience has taught me to believe results... not marketing. I've torn apart engines that have 150,000 - 200,000 miles on them and seen no adverse effects (other than varnish discoloration). I've seen engines last well into their 240,000-250,000 mile range on a life long diet of dino oil.

 

My point is.... if you take care of your car, watch and maintain your fluid levels, and are diligent about your OCI's and maintenance.... any difference between conventional and synthetic oil is negliable.

 

I agree with you 100%. It is most important to properly maintain your car and follow proper OCIs and what not. When that is done properly, I do agree that the difference between the 2 is negligible. Of course the tests that I have read simply says that the synthetic oils can hold up longer and do a better job lubricating when the dino oil would have begun to break down. When they are both in great shape, they are both going to do a very similar job, but this is why my fathers Mercedes goes 10K on Mobil1 stock while our subi's go 3750 on dino stock. Not that I'd go 10K with a turbo, but I would rather use an oil with more potential and capability, especially with a turbo engine. Sounds like we are generally on the same page.

 

 

If dino oil is so bad, why is it specified for the most powerful reciprocating engine ever made ? huh, huh ?

 

 

I never said it was bad, although I would expect more and more cars in the future to follow mercedes benz's train of thought and switch over to synthetic fleets. Reread what has been said more carefully - it is a comparison. A bugatti is faster than a porsche turbo. That doesn't mean that a porsche turbo is slow...

[mccorry]

Ok....

[eze168]

I got my 08gt in june07, and dealers said not to use syn oil....did anyone get the same answer from ur dealers?

[krzyss]

What is OCI stated in your manual?

I was using Mobil 1 5W30 since first oil change (7500 miles). After reading about "banjo bolts clogging", "turbo failures" and "oil starvation" I switched to slighly more robust Castrol Syntec 0W30 aka GC (German Castrol). If this oil cannot handle Subaru originally recomended 7500 OCI nothing can.

 

Krzys

 

PS Europe seems to be using 9000 miles OCI.

[blackfang]

You can use synthetic oil. Just follow the maintenance guide on the OCI respectively. Burning 1qt per 3,000 miles is within industry standards, not just Subaru's.

 

I do know that Mobil 1 5w30 has been a cause of oil consumption in various engines including the WRX/STI's.

[Guest]

You can use synthetic oil. Just follow the maintenance guide on the OCI respectively. Burning 1qt per 1,000 miles is within industry standards, not just Subaru's.

 

I do know that Mobil 1 5w30 has been a cause of oil consumption in various engines including the WRX/STI's.

 

"Industry standard" defined by manufacturers who do not want to replace engine with issues. Typically cracked ringlands in case of Subaru engines....

 

Mobil 1 being the cause of oil consumption is big big BS.

[blackfang]

"Industry standard" defined by manufacturers who do not want to replace engine with issues. Typically cracked ringlands in case of Subaru engines....

Industry standard as in Oil Companies included, not just manufacturers.

 

Mobil 1 being the cause of oil consumption is big big BS.

 

Funny you say that being the LS1 motor is famous and known for drinking M1 5W30:lol: I know mine does and thats why we use 10w30 or a different weight. There are plenty of posts on Nasioc and other forums regarding M1 as well.

[Guest]

Industry standard as in Oil Companies included, not just manufacturers.

 

Does not prove anything. Besides care to quote a source?

 

 

Funny you say that being the LS1 motor is famous and known for drinking M1 5W30:lol: I know mine does and thats why we use 10w30 or a different weight. There are plenty of posts on Nasioc and other forums regarding M1 as well.

What LS1 has to do with suby turbo boxers?

 

Well, to be honest I haven't used and will not use M1 5w30, because it's not a high quality oil and indeed shears in these engine easier. But if the engine is 100% healthy (no blow-by) and not driven hard in high temperatures, there won't be any noticeable M1 5w30 consumption, as evidenced by many who use it successfully.

[blackfang]

Does not prove anything. Besides care to quote a source?

http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_consumption.htm

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=541&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Bulletin/DomesticMarketing/General/pdf/g01b.pdf

http://autorepair.about.com/od/generalinfo/l/bldef587.htm

 

 

 

What LS1 has to do with suby turbo boxers?

 

Well, to be honest I haven't used and will not use M1 5w30, because it's not a high quality oil and indeed shears in these engine easier. But if the engine is 100% healthy (no blow-by) and not driven hard in high temperatures, there won't be any noticeable M1 5w30 consumption, as evidenced by many who use it successfully.

If you would have read my post, I said that it has been the cause in various engines, not just the WRX/STI. Call SOA and argue with them why they have come to that conclusion. How about replying to the threads on Nasioc as well. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422107&highlight=mobil+1+5w30

[Guest]

http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_consumption.htm

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=541&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Bulletin/DomesticMarketing/General/pdf/g01b.pdf

http://autorepair.about.com/od/generalinfo/l/bldef587.htm

 

Thanks but I know what causes oil consumption.

 

All I am saying it's not acceptable for new engine like Subaru to burn 1qt/1000 miles. Heck for a new engine even 1qt/3000miles is not. M1 5w30 or otherwise.

 

QC at FHI leaves lots to be desired, plus the pistons are weak and crack even on stock engines.

 

If you would have read my post, I said that it has been the cause in various engines, not just the WRX/STI. Call SOA and argue with them why they have come to that conclusion. How about replying to the threads on Nasioc as well. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422107&highlight=mobil+1+5w30

Yeah, yeah. It most commonly used oil, so probably that's its biggest fault.

 

Again, a healthy Suby engine, not driven overly hard in hot climate, will not consume any perceptible amounts of M1 5w30. Half quart per 6000 miles, maybe, but that's indeed normal. Countless users who use it successfully.

[blackfang]

Fack!!! I meant to type 1qt per 3,000 dammit. Sorry about the wrong mileage. Funny how I did not use a manufacturer source and still with information proven you still write it off. I love it

 

Well then we will say that the cause is used oil then.

[silver legacy]

With all the posts on this topic, I have yet to read an informed explanation as to why Subaru motors seem to consume oil. I use Mobil 1 on my other vehicles with no oil consumption, including a Corvette with an LS1 that on occasion gets run hard. It has only had Mobil 1, including the factory fill. And yet my '05 Impreza non turbo consumed large quantities of oil and my current '08 non turbo Legacy with 8,000 miles, using only conventional Valvoline 5-30, is already using in excess of 1/2 quart in 2,000 miles. I was planning to switch to Mobil 1 at 12,000 miles, which a nearby Subaru dealer keeps in stock. Is there something about the Subaru motor that seems to cause oil consumption?

[lkjohnson1950]

 

Some people have reported heavy oil use with M1, Others say no problem. Maybe varying production tolerances affect it. I suspect doing a proper break-in also affects it. I changed Dino at 1k miles to remove any lingering post production junk, using Mobil Dino per dealer recommendation. Then at 4k switched to M1 20-50 (I live in the desert, 105+) and have had no usage problem. Tons of threads on this subject have come to the conclusion: experiment a little and use what works for you. I use M1 because of a study Road & Track did years ago in which M1 gave much less wear and less residue than Dino oil of the same weight over 50k miles.