Subaru CPO - Spec B?

[JoeFromPA]

Hi all,

 

I know this thread is going to make Vimy happy, but what are you going to do?

 

I'm doing some research on comparisons between a brand new 08 LGT vs. a very slightly used 07 Spec.B CPO.

 

I found a CPO Spec.B with 8500 miles on it, local to me, listed around $27,500 with a SPT intake and heat shield. Looks clean. I imagine I could get them down to $25,500-$26,000.

 

So I researched the CPO warranty. Looks like it stays with the 4-year, 50k mile bumper-to-bumper and extended powertrain to 6 years, 100,000 miles. Nothing to fancy about it. Can anyone comment on how much it costs to get more coverage on more of the "bumper-to-bumper" items up to say 6 years, 76,000 miles with a $50 or $100 deductible? Seems like such a minor extension should only cost a few hundred dollars.

 

Also, changes from 2007 to 2008: I know the exterior revisions and the A-Pillar bracing and the lack of SI-Drive paddles on the steering wheel (bleh)....but does the 2007 Spec.B. have memory seats? Anything else I'm missing that I would get with a 2008 model vs 2007?

 

I'm trying to present some info to my wife to help her moving forward...we'd like to do another test drive this weekend (maybe a 2008 LGT and 2007 Spec.B. to ensure we know the differences).

 

Any and all info is greatly appreciated.

 

Joe

 

P.s. On a side note, one benefit to the Spec.B. is that it doesn't seem like it needs a short throw shifter or Cobb Sway Bars stock. So that cuts out like $500 of the up-front spending I was going to do

 

Of course, it does need some different wheels/tires for our PA winters. Bleh!

[dmiller5]

cars101.com

[Coupon]

What is a CPO spec.B? The 07 spec.B has a memory seat for the driver. I test drive an 08 then bought an 07. The interior was all black, not black with blue trim. I didn't notice much else.

[smokinduc]

Not real familar with the 07 since I am new to Subaru's. I have an 08 SpecB

 

If you like the twisties - you wil DEFINITELY need sway bars on a SpecB. Way too much lean. And - the car is under-tired, even for moderate agressive driving. So expect to bump up to at least a good 225 tire.

 

The average price paid for a new 08 SpecB is $34,100.00. So - I feel you are getting a good deal on the 07 for 25K

[DukeTrout]

Not real familar with the 07 since I am new to Subaru's. I have an 08 SpecB

 

If you like the twisties - you wil DEFINITELY need sway bars on a SpecB. Way too much lean. And - the car is under-tired, even for moderate agressive driving. So expect to bump up to at least a good 225 tire.

 

The average price paid for a new 08 SpecB is $34,100.00. So - I feel you are getting a good deal on the 07 for 25K

 

????

 

He's comparing a 07 spec.B with an 08 LGT. The spec.B has better tires and better suspension, stock. I agree that one of the first suspension mods would be upgrading the rsb, but stock vs. stock, the spec has less roll than the GT.

 

Perhaps a more important consideration is the transmission. Have you driven both the 5mt and the 6mt? Suspension aside, that is probably the biggest difference between the two trim levels. I'm not dissing the 5mt - I drive one regularly on our OBXT, and like it. However, the 6mt is a noticeable improvement, and takes the driving experience of the spec.B upscale.

 

Take-away: if you can get a lightly-used CPO 07 spec.B or a new 08 LGT for the same price, get the spec.B. Consider me biased, but it seems obvious from where I sit.

[JoeFromPA]

Hey guys,

 

First off: thanks for the reference to Cars101....it has some great info. But one thing to point out is that some of the info is a little, um, mistaken. Such as this quote on the 2007 Spec.B. "The 07 spec.B gets Subaru's first 6 spd manual transmision"

 

I haven't driven the 6-speed yet...from what I've heard, the shifter itself is much more pleasant and maybe even the clutch/trans/shifter/engine interaction is easier to drive smoothly. I imagine it also gives a bit more punch when giving it some gas as the gearing is shorter in the lower gears...the fact that it gets better gas mileage due to the higher overdrive gear is a plus as well. (though I'm not expecting miracles)

 

Ok, so the 07 has memory seats. That's a nice touch. Cars101 and such don't mention any structure bracing, but I've read elsewhere that some revisions include a-pillar bracing among others. I like the one-piece key and telescoping steering wheel, but those aren't deal-makers/breakers.

 

One thing I'm having a hard time discerning:

 

In 07, the bumper-to-bumper warranty was 3 years, 36000...does the CPO extend the bumper to bumper warranty, or do I have to pay extra if I want to do that?

 

Joe

[smokinduc]

????

 

He's comparing a 07 spec.B with an 08 LGT. The spec.B has better tires and better suspension, stock. I agree that one of the first suspension mods would be upgrading the rsb, but stock vs. stock, the spec has less roll than the GT.

 

Perhaps a more important consideration is the transmission. Have you driven both the 5mt and the 6mt? Suspension aside, that is probably the biggest difference between the two trim levels. I'm not dissing the 5mt - I drive one regularly on our OBXT, and like it. However, the 6mt is a noticeable improvement, and takes the driving experience of the spec.B upscale.

 

Take-away: if you can get a lightly-used CPO 07 spec.B or a new 08 LGT for the same price, get the spec.B. Consider me biased, but it seems obvious from where I sit.

 

And......? What did I miss? I am only commenting on the SpecB. He says he can get an CPO 07 for about 25K. I feel thats a good price. My suggestion is that even with a SpecB he might want to look into swaybars for spirited driving.

[JoeFromPA]

Hey Duc,

 

I had to read your post twice to realize you were commenting on the spec.B...it read a little ambiguously at first, I think that was his point.

 

Not sure if you've driven both, but how does the LGT compare to the Spec B stock vs Stock and a Sway bar'd LGT vs. a stock Spec.B.?

 

To me, the increase in stiffness gained by the Swaybars is worthwhile regardless of other things, since it sacrifices almost nothing for the gains you make.

[dmiller5]

im pretty sure the 07 spec b has a 6spd

[JoeFromPA]

It does...wasn't in doubt on that one.

 

Reading a little more, I had forgotten about the torsen rear diff and the aluminum suspension bits (and I believe the 07 Spec.B. is lighter than the 08 LGT due to the aluminum suspension bits and lighter hood than the 08 steel hood...not sure if I'm right on this, as I'm sure the 6-speed trans is alot heavier).

 

If my wife is down with it, I think test driving both an 08 LGT and an 07 Spec.B. is really going to help determine...

 

Joe

[smokinduc]

Hey Duc,

 

I had to read your post twice to realize you were commenting on the spec.B...it read a little ambiguously at first, I think that was his point.

 

Not sure if you've driven both, but how does the LGT compare to the Spec B stock vs Stock and a Sway bar'd LGT vs. a stock Spec.B.?

 

To me, the increase in stiffness gained by the Swaybars is worthwhile regardless of other things, since it sacrifices almost nothing for the gains you make.

 

Hi Joe

 

Can't comment on an LGT as this is my first Subaru. I can tell you that my SpecB has a suprisingly compliant ride. Swaybars do not have as great an affect on ride quality as spring rates do. The Bilsteins on the SpecB are definitely sprung on the soft side. I'm in NY - our streets are certainly not glass smooth and the ride is fine. My wife got me the Cobb swaybar kit for Christmas. Can't wait to get them in!

[GraysonSubaru]

i didnt read all of the posts, but remember the 2007 had the blue interior where the 08 does not.

 

some like the black interior. I had a forum member come from VT to pick up a 2007 Spec B because of the wheels and interior of the 07 vs the 08.

 

i realize he is talking about an 07 Spec B and 08 LGT, so it is pretty much the same comparision (except the 07 spec b wheels are 18" vs the LGT 17"). The LGT will still have dark interior most likely (depending on color of exterior) and the 07 spec b has the blue inserts like an STI.

[GraysonSubaru]

im pretty sure the 07 spec b has a 6spd

 

yes it does.

 

the 2006 models had the 5 speed.

[DukeTrout]

Joe - I've driven a couple of 07 spec.Bs with various degrees of suspension modification (from stock, to mild like mine, to nearly race-prepped in the form of sirsimon's) and there is an amazing transformation from one end of the spectrum to the other. With an LGT, making the same modifications doesn't yield the same results unless you also take steps to improve the damping and unsprung mass (in other words, transform the LGT to a spec.B with aftermarket parts).

 

Stock LGT compared to stock LGT spec.B: roll is comparable, as well as balance (slight understeer bias). The main difference is in tight cornering. There is less roll with the spec.B (the springs and sways aren't helping you at all, but the Bilsteins supress roll in tight corners by resisting high frequency change). Swaybars greatly reduce the roll on sweeping turns, and improved springs (I have pinks) improve roll resistance and overall grip in any kind of complex manuevering. Chassis braces really finish the rest of the job by virtually eliminating the front-to-back body torsion that remains when you clean up the roll, squat, and dive.

 

I remember a great interview I saw of a Lotus suspension engineer. He said that suspension engineering is like opening an infinite Russian matryoshka doll: every time you eliminate the most obvious suspension flaw on a vehicle, you notice another, slightly less obvious flaw. Correct that one, and you discover the next.

 

I haven't driven an LGT with just the rsb, but I'm sure it makes a marked improvement. Sean from Rallitek did a great review of the different levels of balance change with different stiffnesses of rsb. The thread is in the Rallitek forum, and is well worth looking at.

 

The only potential downside to a stiffer rsb is if you plan to take an OB for some serious off-road work. Then, it could make it a less enjoyable experience. For an LGT, there is no real downside unless you over-do it and make the car too tail-happy. Then you might as well get a Mustang...

[JoeFromPA]

I just realized/read again that the 07 Spec.B has VDC...I didn't realize that. The traction benefits inherent in that are a big thing to me...I was willing to give it up considering how stable the boxer/awd platform is, but it's definitely a plus in the Spec.B's direction...

 

Joe

[Guest]

With an LGT, making the same modifications doesn't yield the same results unless you also take steps to improve the damping and unsprung mass (in other words, transform the LGT to a spec.B with aftermarket parts).

 

You're talking like Vimy. Yes there is difference between steel vs. alu front arms, but it's not that much. I upgraded (front only) and I think I could tell the difference but it's very, very subtle. Rear trailing arms are heavier so there is more benefits to be had (7 lbs. per side, if I remember correctly vs. 3 lbs. in front).

 

People often would fare better by putting lighter wheel/tire combos.

 

By the way, stock SpecB wheels weigh a ton and easily negate any benefits afforded by alu suspension pieces.

 

Back to the original question - if money is not object and, 2007 SpecB is a better buy thanks to the 6mt gearbox and VDC. 2006 SpecB is pointless and terrible value.

[SubLo]

CPO is a bad acronym for Subaru. Is it for real? Never heard of such a thing. Way too close to COPO (Chevy) highly desirable old-skook BBC Camaro.

[DukeTrout]

You're talking like Vimy. Yes there is difference between steel vs. alu front arms, but it's not that much. I upgraded (front only) and I think I could tell the difference but it's very, very subtle. Rear trailing arms are heavier so there is more benefits to be had (7 lbs. per side, if I remember correctly vs. 3 lbs. in front).

 

People often would fare better by putting lighter wheel/tire combos.

 

By the way, stock SpecB wheels weigh a ton and easily negate any benefits afforded by alu suspension pieces.

 

Back to the original question - if money is not object and, 2007 SpecB is a better buy thanks to the 6mt gearbox and VDC. 2006 SpecB is pointless and terrible value.

 

unclemat - See, now you're getting mean!

 

I don't know if you've driven a spec.B, but the suspension is for real. I don't buy that it magically nets 20 whp from the exact same engine. I'll buy that it dyno's higher because of the transmission. But anybody who has driven a spec.B can tell the difference in the suspension, and that difference gets more noticable the more you clean up the points where SOA weakened the tea (rsb, springs). The whole is more than just the sum of the parts.