merchgod Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Since upgrading Enginuity I have gone back and read a lot of the values in the Protune I am using, and the boost tables are stock now excet for Target boost A (AT) which read the proper boost for the tune. I have to expect that I am running on solely a base map now. You still have the Cobb ROM on the car then. If you read the ROM with Ecuflash when the AP was married, then unmarried, then later flashed that same ROM with Ecuflash, then it would be as if you've never unmarried. The reason the protune boost target only shows up in "Target Boost A (AT)" regardless of whether you have an MT or an AT, is due to the way Cobb has setup real-time tuning (the base map values are simply placeholders using the first available map in this case and the tranny switch is irrelevant). If you are going to tune with Enginuity and sell the AP, then you should find a stock ROM and tune from there, not only because it is unethical to run a Cobb ROM if you don't own an AP, but also to avoid the inconsistencies that are present (with Target Boost/Initial/max wg duty tables). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTWILLY Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 It is not a Cobb tune, it was a protune put onto my car with the AP. I started with that tune to have it on my car while I made a tune for my car. I started working with one of the tunes that someone made on Open ECU and went from there. I have more recently started looking more into the tuning aspect and now this is where I noticed that the tuner of the map I am working on had the primary and fail safe tables reversed, so I had put the original tune on the car for the moment so that I could have a car that runs safer... hopefully... while I work on the OPEN tune further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTWILLY Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 I hope that the community does not think I am being unethical here with the Pro tuner either. I payed money for his service to tune my car regardless of what program was used to load it. I do not share his tune or try to advertise that I tuned my car myself while his map is on it. I do not try to sell his tune to others with similar mods either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merchgod Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I hope that the community does not think I am being unethical here with the Pro tuner either. I payed money for his service to tune my car regardless of what program was used to load it. I do not share his tune or try to advertise that I tuned my car myself while his map is on it. I do not try to sell his tune to others with similar mods either. A Cobb Protune till has Cobb's real-time tuning functionality (and their other features like launch control if they were added). Since you payed for the protune, I don't think it would be unethical to transfer that tune in Enginuity over to an original factory ROM. However, I think it would be questionable to continue to use Cobb's launch control (by keeping the Cobb ROM on the ECU) after you've unmarried and sold the AP or to use one of Cobb's OTS staged maps. Besides all that, you have the issue with the target boost/wg duty tables with Cobb's RT code that would not jive with what other tuners would do when tuning from a factory ROM (because it would use a single AT map even if you had an MT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I'm sorry, I must be missing something. If I send someone my datalog can you tell me if I have a knock? Then tell me what to look for to know what is a knock? Maybe I'm stuck in the old school way of tunning. When they got rid of distributes timing a motor changed. They went to crank triggers to fire a spark then to crank position sensors to know where the crank was to like the computer know the engine rotation so it could chose the optimum time to fire the spark. I keep hearing people talking about pulling timing. But car no longer have a constant static timing like old cars did. On old car you set the timing at idle (about 8 deg.) with the engine running. Then you set the weight in the dist. to go to full advance(about 32 deg.) at about 2500rpms depending on your setup. Now cars read each cylinder after combustion and then from there it varies the timing to get the most efficient burn on the the next power stoke. So the timing is constantly varing. So how do we know that its pulling timing because of a knock? Bad knocks can be heard. IS the computer hearing a knock or is it anticipating a knock? I can't see a computer engine allowing itself to knock. Is there somewhere I can goto read the explaination for each meaning on the datalog table and will let me know exactly when the car in knocking or when the ECU thinks that it may have a knock. Why not CEL when we get at knock. That is a dangerous event that the ECU should want someone to investigate. It's much worst then a loose vac. hose or a loose gas cap and those event will get a CLE. I have been building and tuning engines for years and I can't see why there is not more defined info on how a ECU reads data. I can't see why we could supercharge a '89 mustang add a bigger fuel pump and get it to run hi 11's low 12's all day. All with a stock ECU and never get a CEL. And the much more advance Subaru ECU can't deal with it. Am I missing something? Please let me know. Thanks Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 This thread is getting better all the time... can't wait for the Enginuity forum on LGT.com to open. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 This thread is getting better all the time... can't wait for the Enginuity forum on LGT.com to open. Well you can blame Shamar for getting me involved in this thread. He got me think. He asked me "If you build and tune your own engines(pre-computers). Why don't you tune your Subaru?" Then he ran a datalog on my car and My e-tune stage 2 map may not be tuned right. Now I'm obsessing on it. Now I have to know. We need to pool our knowledge and "get it done". I hope a mod will make a tuning thread or sticky because I will post info as I learn new things. Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 This thread is getting better all the time... can't wait for the Enginuity web site to come back up. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 ^^ That too. Dang... and you had me thinking it was back up for a second too. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Well you can blame Shamar for getting me involved in this thread. He got me think. He asked me "If you build and tune your own engines(pre-computers). Why don't you tune your Subaru?" Then he ran a datalog on my car and My e-tune stage 2 map may not be tuned right. Now I'm obsessing on it. Now I have to know. We need to pool our knowledge and "get it done".I hope a mod will make a tuning thread or sticky because I will post info as I learn new things. Anyone listening?? We need a TUNING FORUM ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Anyone listening?? We need a TUNING FORUM ! I am listening. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Tuning forum! Itsme: don't blame me blame your tuner Here I thought I was just going to start self tuning just to get to know my vehicle and I come to find out my tune was crap on my car.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Tuning forum! Itsme: don't blame me blame your tuner Here I thought I was just going to start self tuning just to get to know my vehicle and I come to find out my tune was crap on my car.... And another one learns the truth about the "Pro Tuners." Pro tuning is one of the few professions I know of where the actual product is a secret. Not only that they are not responsible for any consequential damages. The tools are closely guarded, the product is invisible, and what you get is not guaranteed. Pretty sweet. Like all things, this doesn't apply to everyone, wholly. But .... I don't know, but I can guess like others are probably guessing, that enginuity is under legal attack. A world full of computerized cars and a few think they own the keys to them all, and will do everything possible to destroy any competition. Not new. But if this collection of forums we call legacygt.com can pool the available knowledge and whatever tools filter through the 'Tuning Underground' perhaps we can begin to shake the bonds of ECU tuning slavery most currently accept. A Tuning Forum would be a good, formal, beginning. In it we could develop concepts and practices using recognized commercial products, such as Cobb's ST, and others. We could also increase the exposure and intellectual weight of open source efforts, like enginuity and ecuflash. Build it, and we will come..... TIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 RE the tuning forum - I've agitated for this as well, but Tide isn't interested. I'm really hoping that Enginuity's forum comes back, since it was really good. But even if it doesn't, NASIOC has a couple of tuning forums and there's also www.openecu.org. RE: legal attack - I'm pretty sure that's the case. It worries me a bit, but I am optimistic about the outcome. Then again I also can't imagine why Enginuity itself would be the subject of a legal attack. I am really looking forward to finding out who launched the attack, and on what basis. My guess is that even if Enginuity gets permanently shut down (which I really doubt), something else will pop up to replace it pretty quickly, and the next project can hopefully avoid whatever landmine the Enginuity team stepped on. I'd sure like to know what it was though. What bothers me most about the Enginuity site shutdown right now is that the wiki is gone. I put a bunch of work in that, and would like to continue. I'm sure there's nothing legally interesting about it, but it's been caught in the crossfire. Of course, the people who put lots of hard work into the Enginuity software probably feel he same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merchgod Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I don't know, but I can guess like others are probably guessing, that enginuity is under legal attack. A world full of computerized cars and a few think they own the keys to them all, and will do everything possible to destroy any competition. Not new. While I can't discuss what is going on with Enginuity, I can say that there is NO lawsuit against us and the issue has absolutely nothing to do with Cobb or Ecutek (which would be implied by the rumors since they are the only stock ECU reflash Subaru solutions). It also has nothing to do with intellectual property. When the site comes back up, assuming no unforeseen technical issue, it will have the same posts, wiki, and everything as before. Nothing will be lost. I still don't have an ETA, however and I will not confirm or deny anything else. Let's just say the issue is a lot more mundane than the wild conspiracy theories that are floating around out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Hey Merchgod, I reloaded the additional tables to the fixed WGDC delay rom you provided and it works like a charm now, thanks a million! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 While I can't discuss what is going on with Enginuity, I can say that there is NO lawsuit against us and the issue has absolutely nothing to do with Cobb or Ecutek (which would be implied by the rumors since they are the only stock ECU reflash Subaru solutions). It also has nothing to do with intellectual property. When the site comes back up, assuming no unforeseen technical issue, it will have the same posts, wiki, and everything as before. Nothing will be lost. I still don't have an ETA, however and I will not confirm or deny anything else. Let's just say the issue is a lot more mundane than the wild conspiracy theories that are floating around out there. Thank you. While I certainly feel better about the situation, I will rest better when the remaining mystery is gone and this great website is back. If its existence is financially troubled I'm sure there are ways to correct that. I won't apologize for the guesswork, it is all we have. You must know your presence here is greatly appreciated. Maybe YOU could talk to Tide about a Tuning Forum for LegacyGT.com . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Thanks for clarifying, Merchgod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 make-believe legal threats aside, it's open source, they can't do anything. What are they going to do, sue you for tinkering with your car? meh... I have yet to try the WGDC fix due to other "issues", but thanks merchgod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Merchgod - thanks for the enginuity update and for hopping on board here on LGT.com. I was just about to archive my little learning/tuning thread when the site went down. I'm looking forward to it's return also. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTWILLY Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 A Cobb Protune till has Cobb's real-time tuning functionality (and their other features like launch control if they were added). Since you payed for the protune, I don't think it would be unethical to transfer that tune in Enginuity over to an original factory ROM. However, I think it would be questionable to continue to use Cobb's launch control (by keeping the Cobb ROM on the ECU) after you've unmarried and sold the AP or to use one of Cobb's OTS staged maps. Besides all that, you have the issue with the target boost/wg duty tables with Cobb's RT code that would not jive with what other tuners would do when tuning from a factory ROM (because it would use a single AT map even if you had an MT). So does that mean the tuner tuned the map from a Cobb ROM instead of a stock ROM? The map is no longer on my car anyway as I looked over the Open tune this weekend and loaded it back on my car with corrected fuel tables and other minor changes in the misc section. Car runs beautifully especially in this cold weather. Only getting 20mpg now though, but I think that is more on my foot's end with pushing on that right pedal so much, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTWILLY Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 I have another question. My friend and I made a map for his 04 WRX about a year ago and now another friend of ours with an 02 WRX is getting a TBE and wants to get a tune for it. Since they are both 2.0L's could we concievably copy all of the tables from the map we made for the 04 into the tables for his 02? Definately would do a few logging sessions but just wondering if that makes sense as long as we start with the stock map of the 02 to keep the right year and ECU definitions in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merchgod Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I have another question. My friend and I made a map for his 04 WRX about a year ago and now another friend of ours with an 02 WRX is getting a TBE and wants to get a tune for it. Since they are both 2.0L's could we concievably copy all of the tables from the map we made for the 04 into the tables for his 02? Definately would do a few logging sessions but just wondering if that makes sense as long as we start with the stock map of the 02 to keep the right year and ECU definitions in there. Yes, you can transfer the tune as long as you keep in mind that some of the tables will be sized differently. The CL/OL fueling tables will also be slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merchgod Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 So does that mean the tuner tuned the map from a Cobb ROM instead of a stock ROM? You would have to ask your tuner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTWILLY Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 Yes, you can transfer the tune as long as you keep in mind that some of the tables will be sized differently. The CL/OL fueling tables will also be slightly different. Thanks I thought I had heard that that was ok to do, I will make sure the scaling is the same as well. i hadn't been on Plazmatize in a while and I like the new layout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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