apexjapan Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 So, those that are interested in upgrading, if you replace the intercooler, which way would you go? Was having a conversation with AVO about it, and they were curious about it themselves. So what to do? Ask the customers! Cheers, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimil Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I'm not in drag racing, I prefer well balanced street car rather than dragster, It will be my daily driver after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 TMIC! The whole purpose is to reduce the lag! Subaru's weren't meant to be drag racers. (Although FMIC's look pretty tough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I don't like the idea of the FMIC being damaged more easily. I don't like more plumbing. I know the TMIC is more prone to heat soak, but really I'm not going to be tracking it often enough for it to be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguylehigh Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 To be honest, I dont really know of the benefits of a TMIC. I know you can get more power out of an engine with the FMIC, but what exclusive benefits does the TMIC have by itself? :?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='kage']I don't like the idea of the FMIC being damaged more easily. I don't like more plumbing. I know the TMIC is more prone to heat soak, but really I'm not going to be tracking it often enough for it to be an issue.[/quote] Same here, and I don't plan on pushing huge numbers, so I should be alright as well. We're no Paul Hansen. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I believe that people wanting all out performance will be more inclined to buy an STi Impreza, so the Legacy will attract more mild tuning. Definitely a TMIC for response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatCQB Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I'm not familiar with the differences either. The FMIC will definitly be cooler at speed than the TMIC. But I'm fine with the TMIC, as much as I like power, I can't see myself changing the look right now. This car is all about balance, otherwise I'll be buying an Evo or STi. Maybe if they come out with a slightly larger hood scoop that still retains the stock look. Are there any heat shields that can be placed under the TMIC to reduce heat soaking? What about routing more air from another spot around the bumper to the scoop? Then there is always the water spray idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I like the look of a large FMIC. But maybe I'm slightly biased because personally I *don't* like the huge scoop on the STi, but actually the subtle scoop does look really nice on the Legacy. -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I picked TMIC, but like a couple others have graciously admitted, I don't really know what differences in performance the two choices make. Then again I guess you do say TMIC "for response" so that sort of answers my question. That and as much as I like the look of a FMIC I think it does lean a bit to the 'ricer' side of the continuum (no offense meant to anyone with a FMIC). :wink: BTW, Paul, your thread about mods has already got me scheming to add a few extra ponies so I'll be able to dust my buddy and his new S4 Avant. All for nearly half the price! :wink: :twisted: :D :lol: Who does AVO distribute through hear in the good 'Ol US of A? If they're not selling yet over here, who's products do you recommend? -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 The choice will be between power and response so far. The TMIC on the car right now is fairly good, I was booting around rather spiritedly at low speeds, and immediately after the run it was quite cool on the intake side and a bit warm on the turbine side. Replacing it is possible, but the change would be incremental, not large. Which is what brought up the discussion about FMIC's for the leggy, for if people really wanted to go for bigger power and an obvious step up in intercooling, that would likely be where people would have to go. It would be a bit laggier, but then, it would be really only recommended for people going for bigger hp turbo, which would offset that lag. I don't want to rock the boat here too much, yet I think I should point out that the Legacy GT is going to be close to the weight of the STi, if not possibly lighter. It can fit 235 series rubber on 18" rims with a 50 offset. It has a suspension geometry that is superior to the STi on tarmac, if you chose to optimize it. And if anybody here has paid attention, they've already gotten a Forester XT up to some rather big power levels, and from some reports, easier than an STi. Better aerodynamics as well. In other words, it may turn out to be a better tarmac car than the STi and some people are going to latch on to that and take advantage of that. Likely will be seeing myself how far I can (sensibly) take it without affecting driveability. Cheers, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 AVO has a few distributors in the U.S., SPO being one of them, but as far as I know currently, the plan is to set up with an actual AVO office in Cali somewhere within the year, hopefully sooner than later. The main reason for that would be to get one of the main R&D people in the States to answer technical questions and to do prototyping there, along with tuning and setup. Cheers, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 SPO seems a little pricey at times with the AVO parts... "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Since we are considering a lot of custom piping for a FMIC, why not just go Air to Water instead of Air to Air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 [quote name='coolbluelb']Since we are considering a lot of custom piping for a FMIC, why not just go Air to Water instead of Air to Air?[/quote] There was a *lot* of discussions about that over on nabisco - I faintly remember that the general consensus was somewhere along the lines of water cooling a bit better when it was cool, but it took even longer to cool down when it was hot. Cheers, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 I would like to know how to replicate the refrigerant boost system shown on the new Ford Lightning. It automatically produces considerably cooler intake air temps for a shorter period of time, then automatically recharges itself so long as the engine is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Oh, so kind of using the air-conditioning system for the intercooler? Does it only do it under certain conditions? (full throttle, high revs, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 Coolblue, that system is indeed interesting. I think it gives a cold shot for up to 30sec at a time IIRC. Would be nice to be able to cool the core for between 20-30 sec at a time or cycle on every min or so for the minimal time needed to significantly cool the core (5-15sec?), just throwing ideas on the table. I'm sure it would add probably a $100-400 bucks depending on how intricuit it would be and how much involved. I would see this more for an STi type of model though. Just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 Yeah, I don't think it would have any application in track/autocross racing, as the recharge time probably offsets the advantages when in use. Having said this, it would be perfect for general street use or drag racing (not sure why you would pick a Legacy for this latter application). Quotes: "With the SuperCooler system, the vehicle’s air conditioning system is used to chill a small storage tank of coolant to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit. On demand, the SuperCooler system switches the intercooler flow from its normal circulation and dumps the chilled coolant into the engine’s intercooler. In turn, the intercooler dissipates up to 20 percent more heat from the charge air – resulting in a denser air charge." "A green light on the instrument panel indicates the system's readiness. SuperCooler is activated automatically when the driver depresses the accelerator to a wide-open-throttle position." "As a result of this cool technology, the SVT Lighting concept can give its driver as much as 50 transient horsepower for short bursts of 30-45 seconds and regenerate within 2 minutes under normal driving conditions. While its effect is similar to that of an aftermarket nitrous oxide system, the SuperCooler is completely self-contained, environmentally friendly and regenerative." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 [quote name='coolbluelb'] "With the SuperCooler system, the vehicle’s air conditioning system is used to chill a small storage tank of coolant to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit. On demand, the SuperCooler system switches the intercooler flow from its normal circulation and dumps the chilled coolant into the engine’s intercooler. In turn, the intercooler dissipates up to 20 percent more heat from the charge air – resulting in a denser air charge." "A green light on the instrument panel indicates the system's readiness. SuperCooler is activated automatically when the driver depresses the accelerator to a wide-open-throttle position." "As a result of this cool technology, the SVT Lighting concept can give its driver as much as 50 transient horsepower for short bursts of 30-45 seconds and regenerate within 2 minutes under normal driving conditions. While its effect is similar to that of an aftermarket nitrous oxide system, the SuperCooler is completely self-contained, environmentally friendly and regenerative."[/quote] :twisted: :twisted: That would absolutely rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatCQB Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 The supercooler would require a special intercooler design with coolant channels right? I've been thinking about a more elaborate water spray system. I've read about intelligent water spray systems that use the injector duty cycle to trigger the spray a little before boost and then also spray a little more afterwards depending on ambient temperatures. The water storage tank hold water at ambient temperatures which can get warmer as it soaks up heat from the engine. Adding a peltier effect cooler to the water tank can chill the water at least by a few degrees below ambient. Pair this with the spray system and the cooler water can absorb more heat from the intercooler. How does that sound? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 For the same or less effort, you could rig a high-pressure CO2 system to super-chill the intercooler. Refills would not be expensive, and the effect would be much greater than that of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatCQB Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 [quote name='coolbluelb']For the same or less effort, you could rig a high-pressure CO2 system to super-chill the intercooler. Refills would not be expensive, and the effect would be much greater than that of water.[/quote] Good Point. But after looking at a few kits for CO2 spray, they are still pretty pricy. Not that they're not worth it, but from a daily driver perspective, the CO2 will get expensive cumulatively. The chilled water will be cheaper. It'll be better than warm water, but not as good as CO2 or NOS coolers. N.E.way, only one way to find out. Just need the car to try it on. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.