Uneven gap on a SEDAN poll

[sportwagon]

OK,

 

I'd like to even out the wheel gap on my sedan.

 

I just had two rear wheel bearings replaced (at 61K miles so I had to pay $675 for it, ouch) and I suspect that the rear weight/gap issue I am debating here will help these two new wheel bearings last a little longer!

 

I've got MT Pinks specific to the sedan matched to JDM GT Bilsteins.

 

The front gap is ~1.5 in. / rear is maybe 0.5 in. (without anything in the trunk and no rear seats)

 

With my sub box (~120lbs or more) + rear seats (~30lbs) and nothing else my trunk (besides dynamat and amps) the rear wheel gap is barely 0.25 in.

 

I know that the wagon specific springs compensate for extra weight of glass, liftgate, etc. for wagons... but would that be enough? Isn't it only around 60lbs more?

 

Without the sub and rear seats and nothing in the trunk, I have about 100-150lbs of extra weight over the rear axles (from amps, MDF amp rack, wiring, crossovers, aux changers and Dynamat)

 

So... My options include:

 

1) get extra spring seats (which I have already) installed with pinks (sedan pinks I have now) cost $150 including an alignment.

 

2) source rear pinks springs ($???$) and get installed probably the same cost as above (since it entails basically the same amount of work) $150 + cost of springs

 

3) source available online now: $675 JDM bilstein rev A with Tanabe/wagon pink set up and swap out all or half of that setup: cost $675 + ~$300 for labor/alignment and recoup $300-600 for extra struts/springs.

 

4) source available online now: One set of JDM GT wagon springs: $125 and One pair rear only JDM Spec B Rev A Bilstein rear struts with top hats: $180 and have installed for $150 with alignment, for a total of around $450 and maybe recouping $100-200 for extra parts

 

5) source one of the wagon springs above PLUS extra spring seats for cost of springs + $150 for install/alignment

 

6)Buy a smaller subwoofer than the JL H.O. 10W7... which I love!

 

7)Just friggin deal with it!

 

8) You've got the answer... so, please tell me!

 

 

Thanks!

 

I appreciate your feedback, suggestions and comments!

 

For reference, here is the full list of current suspension mods I have:

 

Chassis/Suspension:

JDM Legacy STi Sport Spring Set – Pink

JDM Legacy GT Bilstein Struts – Rev. A

Spec B Aluminum Front Lower Control Arms

SuperPro Polyurethane Camber-Increasing LCA Bushings

STi Training Arms w/ ball-bearing bushing– Painted Blue w/ Silver STi logos... aahhh woooo

Cusco Front Sway Bar 23mm – Blue

Cusco Rear Sway Bar 21mm – Blue

AVO Front & Rear Adjustable Endlinks

Cobb Rear Sway Bar Reinforcement Bracket Kit

STi Upper Strut Bar

Cusco Front Lower Brace – Blue

Cusco Rear Lower Brace – Blue

[whitetiger]

Sell your struts and springs and get a set of coilovers. Then, adjust to perfection.

[sportwagon]

Coilovers would be an option, but I cannot afford to go in that direction at this point...

[sportwagon]

Coilovers would be an option, but I cannot afford to go in that direction at this point...

 

You have given me a great alternative option White Tiger...

 

Coilovers would cost about $1000... correct?

 

how much would third-hand Rev A struts matched to second-hand pinks, both used about a total of around 20000 miles be worth?

[VXCL]

your going to need an alignment no matter what, you already have the rear pads, and since your paying for the install i assume you'd pay for install of any new setup so its all moot.

 

the rear is always going to seem lower due to the fender cut, but if you add one pad it will raise it slightly under .5"

 

prob is pinks drop the car even all around which is why i sourced some jdm springs (provas) that dropped the car more in the front and added a rear spring pad to achieve even wheel gap all around.

 

you may want to go coilovers, but bilsteins make for a good street setup, so maybe you can just find some different springs?

[Opie]

You do realize that the front wheel opening is larger than the rear and this gives the perception that the rear is sitting lower...

[sportwagon]

You do realize that the front wheel opening is larger than the rear and this gives the perception that the rear is sitting lower...

 

Yes, I get that... The reasoning behind this is to compensate for the added weight!

[whitetiger]

they way i see it is, you are never gonna get exactly what you want with a fixed perch strut and spring setup, no matter what you buy. So you may spend less going that route but id rather spend more and get exactly what i want, then spend a few hundred less and end up being dissapointed. Coilovers are the best way to deal with height adjustment fine tuning. No fixed perch spring on the market for our cars was designed to deal with significant weight in the trunk in terms of maintaining ride height. Even coilovers will sag with weight in the trunk. However, with coilovers you can adjust for that sag either by changing ride height or increasing spring preload. All you can do in a fixed perch spring is add a extra spring seat which, IMHO, is ghetto tricks to get what you want, and even then, you most likely wont be happy. You can buy a brand new entry level coilover set for just under a grand so the cost difference is not that much.

[sportwagon]

Anyone Interested in this topic or a setup similar to mine, PLEASE do not misinterpret my intent here....

 

I Absolutely LOVE the current setup on my car!

 

It handles incredibly, is rock solid and relatively not that bad on the NVH scale! Seriously, the Rev A Bilsteins are a great, great, great investment (especially considering the bang for buck with JDM takeoffs) for a solid street car!

 

The Pink springs (sedan MT version) were decent for a while on the stock struts but eventually became more than the shocks could handle!

 

I really enjoy how well they match up to the Rev A's, and for any car that isn't overburdened with a trunkfull of very heavy stereo equipment and an obsesive amount of dynamat (to the point that would put an obsesive compulsive person's application of dynamat to shame)... The rev A's and pinks wouldn't be an issue at all in terms of wheel gap and ride height!

 

I think that all of the added weight in the trunk + the pinks/stock struts + harsh roads of NE did a number on the rear suspension and eventually did a number on the rear wheel bearings!

 

My supporting evidence is the wear and tear the pinks/stock struts put on the front half of the car... I know that the tenis ball LCA bushings are notorious for being to compliant and easy to destroy... but I am positive that the other suspension mods (cusco sways, endlinks, cusco front lower brace, etc.) contributed to an accelerated failure of these bushings!

 

This problem in the front was easily solved with the SuperPro poly bushings (the aluminum LCA arms were added at the same time to boot) and the better suited struts for the lowering springs.

 

At the same time I added a few things to tighten up the rear, too! The matching rear cusco brace, ball bearing bushings in the rear trailing arms, and the better struts, too! Along with these suspension mods, I upgraded to DBA rotors and switched to HPS pads (I had carbotech bobcats before) and I swapped to ultra sticky Bridgestone potenza RE0Rs...

 

Yikes, the car took on ramps at least thirty mph faster with the upgrades and it felt rock solid doing so! Tires probably the biggest factor, but the slop in the suspension is non-existent, too!

 

OK fast forward six months, 10,000 miles and two wheel bearings later... I am still so satisfied with the suspension! I am just trying to raise the rear a bit to get a little more clearance before the winter! Aside from tires (this will probably be the last suspension mod I will do... if I do anything at all!

[sportwagon]

OK With that said, White Tiger: This is the first car I have owned that I have ever modified the suspension (aside from a bling upper strut bar or tires)... I thought that the car had to soft of a suspension and way to much roll, tilt, lean, squat, etc. etc.

 

Being a noob to suspension modding I went searching and got an incredible combo deal for F/R Cusco Sways and Pinks (~$600). That improved everything, but I was invested int the perched strut solution, oposed to coilovers which would have been better to cope with my stereo obsession! However, at the time I did not know any better! I didn't know much at all... but the road I traveled has lead to purchasing many, many supporting suspension mods, each fueling my want for more and more!

If I had my stock setup and all of the money spent back, I would buy coilovers first... no question about it! However, the wormhole back in time isn't much more than science fiction at this stage in the game, so I am stuck with what I have... and that isn't anything to complain about!

 

I am at a point in my life where I am getting very close to the end of having disposable income for car modding (I got engaged) and I was looking for one last little unessasary tweak to make the suspension ride a tad bit more evenly before I am done and out of the game! When I had the wheel bearings repalced I was suposed to have the spring seats installed, too. However, time didn't allow for them to get installed and as a result my mechanic had given a flat rate for an install/alignment when I had time to do so! He was a bit weary of the double spring seats, but thought that it could work... He thought wagon specific springs would be a much better option, but also noted that cost of the two alternatives was a big factor!

 

Anyway, it would cost the same for labor/alignment to do either, but I've already got the spring seats... I would have to buy the springs...

 

With an entire switch to coilovers I would need to get at least $1000 upfront plus around $300 for installation... then once off my car I could try to recoup some $$$

 

That doesn't quite align with my newly revised strategy of not spending money on car parts... buying new springs for the rear doesn't really either, but it is a much smaller cost to manage! The spring seats would be ideal... but I don't want to negatively change the handing or possibly comprimise the safety of my car by doing so. I don't know enough about how adding preload will effect things...

 

I am not nitpicky to the point where I won't be happy if it isn't perfect... I am happy now... I love my car! I just thought a little extra clearance in the rear might be beneficial so I figured I'd poll the knowledge of the suspension forum gurus to help me make an educated decision!

[VXCL]

All you can do in a fixed perch spring is add a extra spring seat which, IMHO, is ghetto tricks to get what you want, and even then, you most likely wont be happy. You can buy a brand new entry level coilover set for just under a grand so the cost difference is not that much.

 

i dont know man... i spent $650 and i couldnt be happier. i could not buy cheap coilovers if i went that route so i said hey wtf lets try out a used bilstein combo first. could always re sell at minimal loss.

 

anyways i could not be happier and after doing alot of research and some math i ended up with 1 finger gap all around and a great street setup.

 

all an extra pad does is add a little preload to raise the rear up. you still tighten the top strut bolt down to the same spot and there is no way its going to move if installed properly.

 

i envision cutting spings as ghetto or heating them up, but i dont know about about the extra pad. sounds too harsh

 

My setup:

 

JDM Spec B Rev A Bilsteins

-Prova Sedan Springs (F: 4.35kg / 25mm drop, R: 6.7kg /20mm drop)

-double rear spring pads

-Spec B 18's with RE50's

(1 finger gap all around)

 

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/legacy/provas/IMG_1118.jpg

 

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vxcl/legacy/provas/IMG_9039.jpg

 

Ride is 10000x better then stock. It no longer feels like I'm crashing into a brick wall everytime I hit a bump. Car is solid and composed especially on highway. Highly recommend to anyone. Not a single passenger (from the girl to my grandparents!) has complained about ride quality Perfect combo.

[sportwagon]

nice setup... and thanks for the feedback!

[pillboy]

Fat girlfriend to sit in the appropriate corner.

[Opie]

Hmmm...I'm on Rev A Bilsteins with the Spec-B MT specific pinks and my car sits level. Have most of the same mods as the OP (Cusco Sways, LCA bushings, STi front upper & lower braces) all for over 40,000 miles....and never had a wheel bearing issue. Just how bad are the roads where you live?

[sportwagon]

Boston's roads are nothing like Florida's roads!!! Potholes, frost heaves, construction work and inclement weather make driving up here a lot different!

 

hmmm... spec B pinks!!! how are those different than the GT pinks?

[Opie]

Boston's roads are nothing like Florida's roads!!! Potholes, frost heaves, construction work and inclement weather make driving up here a lot different!

 

hmmm... spec B pinks!!! how are those different than the GT pinks?

 

Yeah...I remember Boston's roads when I was up visiting my brother...potholes and construction were just as bad as around Tampa...but the frost heaves were crazy!

 

There are specific part numbers for the Spec-B STi pink front springs, for the MT Sedan they are P/N: ST2033021020 for the front pair and P/N: ST2038021000 for the rear pair (rears are the same for the GT & the Spec-B Sedans).

 

The part numbers are listed here: http://www.thel7.com/Accessory%20Install%20Doc%27s/JDM%20STi%20Springs.pdf

[blklgt05]

im running RS*R/bilsteinHD. perfect balance, like they were made for each other, and 1 finger gap all around, no double rear seats required. matter of fact, the front is slightly lower, by 1mm. So from all angle, they look perfect. People say RS*R are too low, but thats on stock struts. On bilstein HDs, they are perfect, not too low at all. All the potholes I went over, i can barely feel it. Its like the pressure just dissolved. And it plants very well at all speed, never floats like all the other combination ive used before.