robust Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 OK, conceptually. What limits the amount of drop you can get away with and still maintain a good amount of travel? I hear all the time about lowering and the geometry issues associated with this but nobody explains technically what happens or any solutions to the problem. What kind of parts would maintain adequate geometry while allowing for a good amount of travel at a lower ride height? Or is this not possible? I'd love to know the nitty gritty to satisfy my own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach V Dan Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 OK, conceptually. What limits the amount of drop you can get away with and still maintain a good amount of travel? These are two exactly counteracting things -- the more drop you have, the less suspension travel you have, unless you physically relocate the suspensioin mounting points. Even if you did that, you'd soon have clearance issues with the tires anyway. I hear all the time about lowering and the geometry issues associated with this but nobody explains technically what happens or any solutions to the problem. What kind of parts would maintain adequate geometry while allowing for a good amount of travel at a lower ride height? Or is this not possible? There ARE some parts to try to correct some of the geometry problems -- Zero Sports has roll center adjusters to try to level out the front control arms, and I think Syms also has a tie rod version of the same thing. But neither of these addresses the loss of travel. Shorter travel means you MUST put stiffer springs and (ideally) dampers on to keep the car from bottming out. Stiffer suspension means less ride comfort, and less bump compliance. Any lowering spring that claims to maintain as much ride comfort as stock is going to be prone to bottoming out. So there you go...it's the same old answer: There's no free lunch. Everything is a compromise. --Dan Mach V FastWRX.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 For what it's worth, both springs AND dampers impart force on a moving mass (the car). With springs, force is proportional to deflection. With dampers, force is proportional to velocity. Spring-mass systems are oscillators. Increasing spring stiffness (or reducing mass) produces a system of higher frequencies. This generally also means higher suspension velocities, which means you want a higher damping rate to quickly dampen the oscillation. If not, the sucka keeps on bouncing... There you have my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gitster Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 A slightly delayed reaction there Matt old boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs6er Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I have to pose this question: Are the springs that come stock on the Bilstein struts on the USDM Spec B very different than those on the LGT? It would seem that they should be. I am interested in lowering my car, but not at the expense of reasonable ride comfort. I was under the impression that Pinks were designed for this very purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Great thread! Newby here. What if I just upgraded end links to Kartboys with Stage 1 AP upgrade as a start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Don't you want to put on some sways with those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I was thinking I could keep stock sways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Not much sense in upgrading endlinks without an upgraded sway. The point of a stronger endlinks is so your stock ones won't break when you install a stiffer sway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Won't stronger endlinks tighten my supension without completely changing the handling of the car with new sway bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 nope, save your money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I definitely want to upgrade my suspension. I have read on my car, the best combination appears to be JDM rear sway bar plus Blistein Spec b struts and Japan STI Pink springs. I am guessing this will run me about $1,000. I will be going stage 1 next week, so I really want to get my car handling as solidly as possible for a daily driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Good choice, pretty close to what I have. If you get everything new you will be spending more than $1000. Check this out: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73818 I picked up my struts and springs including tophats nearly new for about $700. The jdm rsb was about $180 new. It is stiff enough to make a nice difference, but not so much that you need bigger endlinks. Spend some time searching this forum, the level of info on it is insane... edit: don't know if these are still around, but this is an awesome deal, especially seeing you have the wagon: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80863 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I have spent hours in the last week reading this forum on suspension and the Cobb AP maps. Funny enough I was washing my car today and using Armorall to wipe the interior down, and an Audi quattro 3.0 wagon pulls up next to mine. A bad ass car you can tell immendiately. The fact that that I can upgrade my car to compete both for power and handling, with less weight of course, made me feel I am going to have to get to that place where I am happy knowing I have some fairly serious capabilities hidden in the benign form factor of my car. So looking at the first link, and thanks for the information ( I hope I can do the same for a newby one day if I ever know enough), it looks like $969 for the Bilsteins and STI pink springs plus probably another $400 for the sway bars. Obviously I want to profit as much as possible from the experience of people like you. The funny thing is that I bought my car used about two months ago. It rides really low, so I wonder if the guy before me has lowered it. I will have to measure the height on level ground and comapre to others using the same tires. But the handling does not fell tight when I drive agressively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Just peek at the springs ^^^ ...or look at the top of your strut towers. It should be easy to tell if they are stock springs or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 So looking at the first link, and thanks for the information ( I hope I can do the same for a newby one day if I ever know enough), it looks like $969 for the Bilsteins and STI pink springs plus probably another $400 for the sway bars. You will also need the top hats for the front struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 If you aren't in a rush, I'd say that you should wait for them to pop up on the classifieds. You save yourself a lot of money that way. Also, you may want to check with King Of Parts. They are pretty awesome at pricing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Thanks. I am about to remap to Stage 1 Cobb 91 today. I have read on the boards that the ideal suspension upgrade for my model in Boston is the JDM rear sway bar + Bilstein struts+STI pink springs. I think I will slowly try to buy these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 The rear sway is really easy, took about a half hour. Do your struts and springs at the same time, not piecemeal. You can thank me later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The rear sway is really easy, took about a half hour. Do your struts and springs at the same time, not piecemeal. You can thank me later. I just went stage 1 tonight.. I am impressed. The car handles well as well; I am coming from a Saab 9-3, so stock LGT is a different level suspension. Still, I am curious about a rear sway bar. Rallitek sells three rear sway bars. Is the Japan 20mm rear sway the one for our wagon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The JDM rear sway is what is stock in Japan, I believe. It is tubular, which is nice because it is light. That was the first mod I did. Still pleased with it. Some folks want more, and go with Cuscos front and rear, very stiff. I have heard Whiteline are also good, and the rear is adjustable. Check out the other threads out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieAA Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The JDM rear sway is what is stock in Japan, I believe. It is tubular, which is nice because it is light. That was the first mod I did. Still pleased with it. Some folks want more, and go with Cuscos front and rear, very stiff. I have heard Whiteline are also good, and the rear is adjustable. Check out the other threads out there. Will do. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvnmars Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Newbie here, I just bought a 8AC Legacy Sedan i SE MT5 2.5 and am not too concerned about making any major mods, but I do have a concern about the factory anti-sway bars. I was talking to a fellow subie owner (05 sedan 2.5i) who had major problems with wind and tracking of the car. He replaced the factory rear anti-sway bar and mounting links, he said the factory bar was hollow and the mounting links where flimsy at best. My question, is the 08 non-turbo of the same level of componets? If so, then I will be replacing both anti-sway bars and links. I want this car for its relibality more then speed, but I also like a car that can corner well. Thank you for all input, and this forum is great. Lots of good useful information here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Newbie here, I just bought a 8AC Legacy Sedan i SE MT5 2.5 and am not too concerned about making any major mods, but I do have a concern about the factory anti-sway bars. I was talking to a fellow subie owner (05 sedan 2.5i) who had major problems with wind and tracking of the car. He replaced the factory rear anti-sway bar and mounting links, he said the factory bar was hollow and the mounting links where flimsy at best. My question, is the 08 non-turbo of the same level of componets? If so, then I will be replacing both anti-sway bars and links. I want this car for its relibality more then speed, but I also like a car that can corner well. Thank you for all input, and this forum is great. Lots of good useful information here. Not sure if sway bars affect performance in wind all that much. Nonetheless, the stock US rear sway is a noodle, and is solid, not hollow. The stock rear sway in Japan (JDM) IS hollow, and is a very good handling improvement, lots of people here have them, myself included. Stock links are fine. You might want to start off with some good tires and a proper alignment. The stock tires on the GT are pretty bad... Not sure what they give you with the 2.5i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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