jvento Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 no do not do it money pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 2nd gen rx-7 + OEM rotary = broken apex seal I should know, I had one. me too (then friend bought it when I got the LGT and added LS1 w/ heads/cams, 2600lbs, 420+rwhp ) 944s are nice, but like others mention prob expensive partwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I like the 968 except no turbos available. PowerHaus (check it out for 944 or 968 stuff) has some. Powerhaus 968 page http://www.powerhaus.com/images/968%20turbo%20S%20conversion/Layout.jpg They'll convert a 968 to Turbo S spec (2.5 8-valve turbo engine from 951, which is the internal number for the 944 turbo), or go one better, and turbocharge the 3.0 liter 16-valve Variocam I4, to about 500 horsepower and torque. Not bad. Not inexpensive, though. I always wanted to do a 944 body (for the rear quarter windows and rear section of the body) with a 968 front end (laid-back headlights) with the 3.0 16-valve Variocam engine with a turbo, and kind of end up with a hybrid 951/968. Or put a tuned 928 V8 engine in it... But expensive is right. The 944/968 is a handling dream, from what I read, and not outrageous for a used porsche tuner, but the word Porsche is in there, and that does make it somewhat expensive for mere mortals on budgets. If one could get a car to tune, and another car for parts/spares to use or sell to pay for new parts, it might not break the bank, depending on the fun-budget in your household. I love the FD-3S RX7, as well, but that again takes some time, sweat, and likely money to upkeep. The FD beat the 968, back in that day. The car is sexier than the 944 and 968, as well. And the TF&TF crowd has kept the car prices pretty high for that car, as well as the Supra. Turbocharged 2nd generation MR 2 would be a great candidate, people do try engine swaps with Toyota V6s, and someone tried but didn't finish a transverse Lexus V8 transplant, IIRC. but tuning the I4 is probably easier. It might top out close to 275-300hp, maybe more, depending on how radical the mods get. If I could put a tuned STI 2.5 turbo engine (APS or AVO twinscroll turbo...) and a mid-engine RWD transaxle in that car, it would be just about nirvana for affordable performance... I am not sure if that has ever been done, and it would be very custom. But, at this point, I would have to say, if I were looking for a weekend tuner... I would be sorely tempted to find an impreza coupe, especially a 2.5RS, and tune up with a later model STI turbo/6MT drivetrain swap. The donor car, depending on model, and basic spare parts are probably cheaper than both Porsche and FD RX7 parts, the car is pretty light, and the STI drivetrain is well documented, more recent, and very reliable. And probably at least as powerful as a moderate 944 Turbo tune-up, although probably not on par with the 500hp beast shown above. Stock 944T is only ~235hp... STI is ~300. The trick is, that the 951(944T) already comes with the turbo engine installed and running. The Subaru route would require sourcing the body and the drivetrain separately, and then piecing it together. Probably not all that hard, but the electronic controls might be a bit of a challenge. I'll bet it has been done several times, though. One could also sell the stock NA subaru engine and drivetrain parts for some recoup of conversion costs. And the Impreza body isn't as slick as the 944's looks. But it will probably be cheaper speed in the long term, in terms of regular maintenance or repairs. A 22b STI clone wouldn't too shabby looking, if you don't mind the impreza's overall looks. If you have more money... A similar swap into an SVX might be even more fun. I have contemplated Perrin's recent Turbo 3.0R H6 project transplanted into an SVX coupe with an STI 6MT... That could be cool, too. The Mazdaspeed Miata idea isn't too bad, either, although there are so many performance parts for the Miata, that one could get a flyin-miata turbo or supercharger setup and best the MSM's stock power level right there, and build a spec-miata grade suspension, and have a fantastic little car on the cheap. Miatas are pretty bulletproof, like the Subaru, and less complex than the RX7, especially in the engine bay. Flyin Miata breaks down wrecked miatas. They may even have an MSM engine that could be fitted into another donor body, with some upgrades to 250+ hp. BUT YOU WILL NEED CHASSIS STIFFENING on a Miata. it is a convertible, and it only gets looser over time. Our 99 Miata is getting kind of rattly already, and it has barely 50k miles. Strut tower brace and lower chassis braces would do well, and if any racing, a real roll bar, not just a decoration. It is all kind of a tradeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 Some interesting ideas but I'm not in a position to do a serious engine / drivetrain swap. I prefer to look at stock forced induction cars and tune them but their are exceptions. This would be a summer car only so I would go for rear drive to get the driving dynamics. So far the list looks like; 944 turbo (getting old and all that goes with that) Mazdaspeed Miata (more expensive to buy, bit of a girl's car:lol:) Flyin' Miata 300ZX TT (a bit heavy but potentially fast) MR turbo (looks like limited tuning support) Any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 That's a pretty good list. I think it's going to come down to what you can find locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimalistic Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 The MR2 is a nice car, but they stuffed that motor into the back of that car. Replacing anything on that motor requires you to remove 8 additional parts. Heck even the air filter is a pain in the ass to change. If you want busted knuckles and parts scattered all over your garage the MR2 Turbo is the car for you. We have a MR2 shop in town and they remove the motor to do any work. On the plus side 2 men with strong backs can pull the motor out of the car no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 the 944 does require some expensive maintenance, if you're not going to do it yourself. no doubt about that. plus you have the dbl evil of owning a porsche (so people want to charge you more) but one that porsche owners don't respect. lol. as with many 20 year old cars, the trick will be to find that has been well maintained. replacement parts are not that bad, honestly (for standard stuff). and there is a huge market (check out rennlist). they corner great. not a great shifter. make good power stock, easy to mod. somewhat antiquated suspension, but easy and relatively cheap to make minor upgrades. stout transaxle. semi-functional rear seat and good cargo room, if that's at all relevant. with any of these cars, buy it figuring it's going to be a project and that things will break. buy it because you love to look at it and love to drive it. styling is just subjective. you could have a great deal of fun with any of the cars these folks have mentioned. getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 The MR2 is a nice car, but they stuffed that motor into the back of that car. Replacing anything on that motor requires you to remove 8 additional parts. Heck even the air filter is a pain in the ass to change. If you want busted knuckles and parts scattered all over your garage the MR2 Turbo is the car for you. We have a MR2 shop in town and they remove the motor to do any work. On the plus side 2 men with strong backs can pull the motor out of the car no problem It does look tight back there. Off the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 The 944 Turbo was quite the machine in its day. I had a Daytona Shelby (modded) that ate one for lunch one day. I think the rear mounted transaxle was a weak point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 It does look tight back there. Off the list LOL. You should take the Z off your list too then. http://www.klio.net/creasy/probe/P6160005.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Did anybody mention an older Toyota Supra w/Turbo? Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Did anybody mention an older Toyota Supra w/Turbo? Mark IV or III? Mark IV goes for $20-30k... Mark III is not as easy to mod for power as Mark IV or the Z32 TT for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 300zx... that is a nice car, too. A bit big and probably not light, but nice, and powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Of all the ideas thrown out there, I still like your original plan to get the 944 Turbo. It was a more expensive car in its day, and therefore you'd probably have better luck finding one that was adult maintained. Plus, there is a certain amount of prestige that goes with Porsche that Mazda, Toyota, and particularly the Diamond Star turbos will never have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Of all the ideas thrown out there, I still like your original plan to get the 944 Turbo. It was a more expensive car in its day, and therefore you'd probably have better luck finding one that was adult maintained. Plus, there is a certain amount of prestige that goes with Porsche that Mazda, Toyota, and particularly the Diamond Star turbos will never have. Couldn't agree with you more pal... Persue your dream and mod the heck out of it and let us know what you do to it.... Best of luck, Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Some interesting ideas but I'm not in a position to do a serious engine / drivetrain swap. I prefer to look at stock forced induction cars and tune them but their are exceptions. This would be a summer car only so I would go for rear drive to get the driving dynamics. So far the list looks like; 944 turbo (getting old and all that goes with that) Mazdaspeed Miata (more expensive to buy, bit of a girl's car:lol:) Flyin' Miata 300ZX TT (a bit heavy but potentially fast) MR turbo (looks like limited tuning support) Any others? Celica awd turbo, rare but similar to the mr2 in terms of swaps, upgrades and potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Celica AllTrac is extremely rare. Mods can get pricey, especially when compared to DSMs. I loved my Stealth, "heavy" or not. With my nigh-300 lbs inside, it weighed 4070 lbs and still ran 12.50s @ 109 mph with a downpipe & fuel mods. Stock turbos, stock cat-back, stock fuel pump, etc. No fancy custom tune - just the stock ECU with HKS piggybacks. Check out where the VR4 placed in this old Motor Trend article vs. Viper GTS, NSX, Supra, 300ZX, 911T, and Ferrari. • it pulls more lateral g's than a NSX, Supra, and C5 • it beats "only" the C5 in a slalom - and we all know how poorly C5's handle • With that kind of weight, it must stop poorly too. Wat a minute, what's that? It beats the NSX and Viper in braking? It ties the C5 and is only 1 foot behind a Supra? Only 2 feet behind the Ferrari? Impossible! It's not a road course car but it's one hell of a GT car. Not cheap to fix; mods aren't too bad - especially once you've seen pricing for Subaru mods. Mine had upgraded brakes & fat tires (245s front, 275s rear) to go along with the extra power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subiecity Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 fuuny you should day that..........im tryna get the same car from a freind...only problem is it doesnt start but i may take it as a project car/track/street car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvento Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I now a z that is doing the1/4 9.4@143 with a th400 chevy trans in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Check out where the VR4 placed in this old Motor Trend article vs. Viper GTS, NSX, Supra, 300ZX, 911T, and Ferrari. 300ZX is not in that article. The date on the mag is May '97, they stop selling the Z32 in the US after MY96. Here is a C&D article comparing the Corvette, RX-7, 3000GT, 300ZX, 968 and Supra back in '93. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra02.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra03.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra04.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra05.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra06.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra07.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra08.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra09.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra10.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra11.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra12.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra13.jpg Here is the last page for those that don't want to read through the whole thing. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chenc544/9_93cdsupra13.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Nice articles. Not to threadjack, but its pretty damn cool that the awd "family" sedan that we all drive posts 0-60 and 1/4 times (not mph, handling or style) as good or better than most of the cars tested in the 93 article, which I have drooled over for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Nice articles. Not to threadjack, but its pretty damn cool that the awd "family" sedan that we all drive posts 0-60 and 1/4 times (not mph, handling or style) as good or better than most of the cars tested in the 93 article, which I have drooled over for years. Agreed. It is likely that my LGT will be quicker than whatever project / hobby car I get. One thing, for me, that stands above all others when it comes to driving entertainment is handling and responsiveness. And something with some classic style that won't get old. If I had more $$ in the fund I might consider an '87-'89 911. But I would probably be too paranoid to drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Nice articles. Not to threadjack, but its pretty damn cool that the awd "family" sedan that we all drive posts 0-60 and 1/4 times (not mph, handling or style) as good or better than most of the cars tested in the 93 article, which I have drooled over for years. Technology has come a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 The 911 might be easier and less expensive to maintain or repair than the 944T, just do to it being air-cooled, and less complex. Paranoid due to theives, dings, etc, or paranoid of tail-happy handling characteristics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 The 911 might be easier and less expensive to maintain or repair than the 944T, just do to it being air-cooled, and less complex. Paranoid due to theives, dings, etc, or paranoid of tail-happy handling characteristics? dings, chips, bugs, whatever. Pretty sure if I had a 911 I would get over it . 911s have a reputation for being pretty tough. More to buy initially, especially for a clean one with service records, but tempting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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