Snow Tires?

[Vimy101]

^ Your tire choice will be fine. 215/50-17 is just slightly under OEM diameter and gives some pothole padding.

 

I placed more emphasis on warm weather driving because of the shoulder seasons here where you can easily get a 70F day or two. The Contis were my solution and proved to be excellent in the snow. They're going on today and still look brand new. One more season out of my 050s? Perhaps not.

[tantal]

Just remember, before you buy, decide if you want a snow tire or a winter tire - they are different!

 

There are several excellent choices in both classes. The michelin X-ice and B'stone blizzak revo are great snow tires, and also cheap!

[TimGinCentralNJ]

How can you be faulted for driving stock tires? If they come standard on the car I don't see how anyone can blame the owner.

 

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Sure, it's a Subaru but if the tires which came on the car were not suited or safe for driving in winter conditions, the owner is still ultimately responsible. After all, no one put a gun to the owner's head and made them drive in the snow, right?

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

[rock2534]

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Sure, it's a Subaru but if the tires which came on the car were not suited or safe for driving in winter conditions, the owner is still ultimately responsible. After all, no one put a gun to the owner's head and made them drive in the snow, right?

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

 

I hear you. I was just thinking along the lines of the average car buyer, not those that spend their days on car forums discussing every minute detail from tires to headlights Most people have no idea that there are so many varying degrees of tires, and especially that there are tires that should only be used in the summer. The average person, in my opinion, thinks that their tires should be good, or acceptable, for all conditions especially when they are buying an AWD car/suv like a subaru.

 

My point really was that the legacy is an average car, a nice one, but average in terms of cost and features, and the average buyer is going to have the expectation that they will not have to "winterize" the car just to get around in the snow. Now myself, I know the value and fun that can be had by using winter tires!

[krzyss]

The only summer shod vehicles from Subaru are Spec B and STI. These are not average cars in Subaru line.

 

Krzys

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Most people have no idea that there are so many varying degrees of tires, and especially that there are tires that should only be used in the summer. The average person, in my opinion, thinks that their tires should be good, or acceptable, for all conditions especially when they are buying an AWD car/suv like a subaru.

 

My point really was that the legacy is an average car, a nice one, but average in terms of cost and features, and the average buyer is going to have the expectation that they will not have to "winterize" the car just to get around in the snow

 

That's a really good point, actually. Your "average" person driving their "average" car is probably pretty happy driving year 'round on a decent all-season tire, and for the most part they'll probably be fine--with the exception of any car which came with crap tires (I've owned a few). But, should that "average" person find themselves owning any kind of "performance" car (which I would consider at least the LGT/OBXT versions of these cars to be), now they may be faced with having to consider snow tires for the first time--even though their car is AWD. Why? Because as a general rule, what makes a performance summer tire good in dry, warm weather make is inherantly bad in snow and cold temps.

 

Probably not something many people never consider up front when buying an "upscale" version AWD car, right?

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

[robinlsb]

That's a really good point, actually. Your "average" person driving their "average" car is probably pretty happy driving year 'round on a decent all-season tire, and for the most part they'll probably be fine--with the exception of any car which came with crap tires (I've owned a few). But, should that "average" person find themselves owning any kind of "performance" car (which I would consider at least the LGT/OBXT versions of these cars to be), now they may be faced with having to consider snow tires for the first time--even though their car is AWD. Why? Because as a general rule, what makes a performance summer tire good in dry, warm weather make is inherantly bad in snow and cold temps.

 

Probably not something many people never consider up front when buying an "upscale" version AWD car, right?

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

 

SOOOO right. You can get a good rain/dry tire (GY ds3) although a really,Really good summer dry tire will suck in the wet. Conversely, a really Really good snow/ice tire will suck in warm dry weather.

[tantal]

Tim, you have a point, but come on, people can claim stupidity and ignorance only so far. Essentially what you are saying is that these cars should come with the same shytty rubber that the normal versions come with because most peeps are stupid/ignorant? What you'll do is drive away the enthusiast, who has now to buy TWO sets of rubber - summer and winter - to replace the shyt on the wheels now.

 

Drive away that enthusiast, and the car disappears.

 

Look at the incredible LGT wagon with 5MT that you can now no longer get.

 

Seriously, think about the big picture.

 

Robin - you are dead wrong. Several outstanding max perf summer tires are specifically not for wet weather, but most good summer tires are outstanding wet and dry - better in both cases than just about ANY all season.

 

Put another way, if you are buying a summer tire for the street, not racing, and you DONT get way better dry and wet grip than any all season tire, then your tire picking skills suck donkey balls.

 

The RE050A is an excellent example - no way you match the wet and dry performance of this tire, even with the pilot sport exalto. Not even close, really

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Tim, you have a point, but come on, people can claim stupidity and ignorance only so far. Essentially what you are saying is that these cars should come with the same shytty rubber that the normal versions come with because most peeps are stupid/ignorant? What you'll do is drive away the enthusiast, who has now to buy TWO sets of rubber - summer and winter - to replace the shyt on the wheels now.

 

Drive away that enthusiast, and the car disappears.

 

Look at the incredible LGT wagon with 5MT that you can now no longer get.

 

Seriously, think about the big picture.

 

Robin - you are dead wrong. Several outstanding max perf summer tires are specifically not for wet weather, but most good summer tires are outstanding wet and dry - better in both cases than just about ANY all season.

 

Put another way, if you are buying a summer tire for the street, not racing, and you DONT get way better dry and wet grip than any all season tire, then your tire picking skills suck donkey balls.

 

The RE050A is an excellent example - no way you match the wet and dry performance of this tire, even with the pilot sport exalto. Not even close, really

 

 

No--that's not at all what I'm saying. Think you may be missing at least one point here. And for the record, these cars DO come "with the same shytty rubber which normal models come with". Potenza RE92a's. Maybe you've heard of them

 

We were talking about peoples' "expectations". For example, some peoples' "expectation" that they should not be held accountable for their tires not performing well in winter conditions--simply because they were the tires which came on the car, or because they have an AWD car. Obviously, neither are realistic.

 

IMHO, like it or not--people ARE accountable, and the idea of driving around on any tires which don't perform with some level of confidence in bad weather is ridiculous--and that its the responsibility of the owner to identify and address the problem--preferrably before they hurt themselves or others. Easily resolved by buying better A/S tires, a dedicated winter set, or maybe not driving their car that day.

 

Need proof? There's been countless posts on this board about newbies getting into their new LGT, STi, etc and promptly slamming it into a pole/ditch/other car/etc because their "expectation" was that: A) their car is AWD, and B) any tires which are new should keep them on the road in any conditions--especially with AWD.....as opposed to spending the time to get a "feel" for how their car handles on slippery roads first, realizing it handles badly, then opting to do something about it.

 

Hope that clears things up a little for ya'.

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

[tantal]

Tim, that's exactly what I was saying - peeps are responsible for understanding their tires, at least vaugely. I thought we were discussing the RE050 that comes on the spec b???????

 

The attitude would not be missed if left out in future posts . . .

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Tim, that's exactly what I was saying - peeps are responsible for understanding their tires, at least vaugely. I thought we were discussing the RE050 that comes on the spec b???????

 

The attitude would not be missed if left out in future posts . . .

 

Not looking to start a p!ssing contest or anything, but I think if you re-read the thread, there were lots of different things being discussed by lots of different people--including but not limited to the RE050, although I personally didn't have anything to add to that.

 

As for your agreeing with what I had said, I've gotta' tell ya' that your posts are awfully difficult to understand and come across as being pretty abrupt. Maybe that's not how they're intended, but I'm just lettin' you know. No attitude intended

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

[robinlsb]

SOOOO right. You can get a good rain/dry tire (GY ds3) although a really,Really good summer dry tire will suck in the wet. Conversely, a really Really good snow/ice tire will suck in warm dry weather.

 

 

Robin - you are dead wrong. Several outstanding max perf summer tires are specifically not for wet weather, but most good summer tires are outstanding wet and dry - better in both cases than just about ANY all season.

 

 

Pray tell, what is wrong or dead wrong with my statement

[NSFW]

[rock2534]

That's a really good point, actually. Your "average" person driving their "average" car is probably pretty happy driving year 'round on a decent all-season tire, and for the most part they'll probably be fine--with the exception of any car which came with crap tires (I've owned a few). But, should that "average" person find themselves owning any kind of "performance" car (which I would consider at least the LGT/OBXT versions of these cars to be), now they may be faced with having to consider snow tires for the first time--even though their car is AWD. Why? Because as a general rule, what makes a performance summer tire good in dry, warm weather make is inherantly bad in snow and cold temps.

 

Probably not something many people never consider up front when buying an "upscale" version AWD car, right?

 

Cheers,

Tim G.

 

I can only speak from experience, when I bought my Acura CL Type S way back in 2000, it straight up sucked in the snow. Every time I tapped the gas the tires just spun and then the car slid to the right. I had no clue about cars and just accepted the fact that my car sucked in the snow. After about a yr I found some car sites and learned quite a bit about the car and tires in general, so I bought a winter set. From that point on the car was like a tank in the snow so I will always be a proponent of the winter tire. I don't know what it is with manufacturers putting the worst tires they can find on their cars, for Acura it was the Michelin Pilot MXM4. All they did was spin in the summer, in the rain, and in the snow. But back then I was the "average" consumer and just put up with it for 2 winters. To me the tires were brand new and why would a company put crappy tires on a 32k car?? Now I know better.

 

And I should clarify that I am not trying to "hate" on Subaru (I own one!), but I do consider it an average car when looking at the car market as a whole. You can get a camry with more power. But yes, it is high performing, and any car that has that sort of power should be required to come standard with some good tires on it.

[Vimy101]

^ The Camry is FWD.

[rock2534]

^ The Camry is FWD.

 

Yeah I know, I used to roll an 86 back in my college days. Nice little car!

[tantal]

Carmakers have the following in mind when choosing an OEM tire:

 

1) Cost to them

2) EPA fuel economy rating

3) Quietness

 

Nothing else matters, unless it is a car targeted at the performance crowd. Even then, some of the tire choices are clearly focussing on number 1.

 

I can only speak from experience, when I bought my Acura CL Type S way back in 2000, it straight up sucked in the snow. Every time I tapped the gas the tires just spun and then the car slid to the right. I had no clue about cars and just accepted the fact that my car sucked in the snow. After about a yr I found some car sites and learned quite a bit about the car and tires in general, so I bought a winter set. From that point on the car was like a tank in the snow so I will always be a proponent of the winter tire. I don't know what it is with manufacturers putting the worst tires they can find on their cars, for Acura it was the Michelin Pilot MXM4. All they did was spin in the summer, in the rain, and in the snow. But back then I was the "average" consumer and just put up with it for 2 winters. To me the tires were brand new and why would a company put crappy tires on a 32k car?? Now I know better.

 

And I should clarify that I am not trying to "hate" on Subaru (I own one!), but I do consider it an average car when looking at the car market as a whole. You can get a camry with more power. But yes, it is high performing, and any car that has that sort of power should be required to come standard with some good tires on it.

[rock2534]

Carmakers have the following in mind when choosing an OEM tire:

 

1) Cost to them

2) EPA fuel economy rating

3) Quietness

 

Nothing else matters, unless it is a car targeted at the performance crowd. Even then, some of the tire choices are clearly focussing on number 1.

 

Yeah I'll buy that, and the worst part is they tend to be some of the most expensive tires to replace. $175/tire for these bridgestones and the Michelins that came on my Acura is rediculous. Looks like the dealer and/or tire manufacturer are making quite the nice profit when people buy the oem tires from the dealer.