malvic Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Sorry if this is a repost. http://news.en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5318637 2009 Legacy to Feature CVT Canadian Auto Press The gearless CVT transmission comes and goes in waves of popularity. Previously isolated to European and Japanese-market city cars, they've become an aide in the modern quest for fuel-efficient vehicles around the world. Without physical ratios or a torque converter, they’re more efficient than their regular automatic transmission counterparts, but are prone to what's called the rubber band effect where the engine's speed rises disproportionately to the speed of the car. New technology has helped to reduce the negative sides of the CVT, and has allowed it to be used in more powerful applications. One brand that's capitalized on this is Nissan, which offers CVTs in practically every model it makes, but for its heavy-duty SUVs, trucks and the 350Z sports car. Because of the CVT's efficiency, all Toyota and Lexus hybrid models use the technology, as does the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Nissan Altima Hybrid. Prestige brands have also worked with CVT gearboxes. Audi's MultiTronic CVT transmission utilizes a metal link chain for front-wheel drive A4s, while Mercedes-Benz's A- and B-Class feature a CVT with seven artificially created ratios instead of a conventional automatic. http://stb.msn.com/i/7B/53E488398076B6B947F7B5549FC1F.jpg On the contrary, there are some brands that haven't been particularly pleased with the results of their CVT transmissions. Ford dropped their ZF-built CVT from the Five Hundred full-size sedan and Freestyle crossover when they made the jump to the Taurus update. Saturn completely discarded CVTs after offering them on the ION and the outgoing VUE. The previous MINI Cooper featured a CVT transmission in place of an automatic, though it's no longer available. Now Subaru, one of the quirkiest automakers around, known for their all-wheel drive systems, unique boxer engines and durability, is getting ready to trod down the CVT path once again, according to Winding Road magazine. Having been one of the first to offer a CVT in North America, with its subcompact Justy, it is already a believer in the technologies' many advantages. The new gearbox would be used in place of a standard automatic, and will be available with most of the mainstream engines that the brand offers. Subaru also hopes to have a CVT available in every car it makes by the year 2010. http://stb.msn.com/i/ED/6298B2B3DADEB4A9D897689ED16AAD.jpg Due to the power limitations that CVTs have, we doubt that they'd be featured on the turbocharged 2.5-litre H-4 engine that will move the ultra-powerful Impreza WRX STi, but current CVT technology would still enable it to be used on the less powerful Impreza WRX, Legacy and Forester models. The first Subaru product to feature a CVT transmission is projected to be the 2009 Legacy that is also set for a facelift in that particular model year. Subaru's first diesel, a 2.0-litre horizontally opposed engine (a world first for this engine configuration) will be available in North America within the next few years, but the brand hopes on making another world first by mating this new CVT to it. The combination of a high-efficiency diesel engine with a CVT should help make the forthcoming Legacy one of the thriftiest midsize sedans on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateWA Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I really hope they dont uglify the new 09 legacy's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 This is good news. There is no way they will use a CVT in the GTs. So you enthusiasts have no need to get your panties in a bunch. The 4EAT has been in need of updating for a long time now. A CVT may actually be more advantageous than the 5EAT. At the very least, it should boost fuel economy 1-2 MPG which the 2.5i badly needs with these new EPA testing methods. I wasnt crazy about the idea of a CVT at first, but I started to enjoy this sound. cvt video by SLegacy99 - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid47.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/SLegacy99/a6ff2280.flv@@AMEPARAM@@vid47@@AMEPARAM@@47@@AMEPARAM@@f200/SLegacy99/a6ff2280 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I wonder why the Diesel is not talked about more.. Seems like Subaru is trying to get innovated again? From what I hear the Subaru XT was very good for it's time.. makes me wonder what happened after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I wonder why the Diesel is not talked about more.. Seems like Subaru is trying to get innovated again? From what I hear the Subaru XT was very good for it's time.. makes me wonder what happened after that. because if it blows up in europe they will quietly bury it. just like the cvt they used in the justy, it fell apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I feel pretty nervous about the CVT. Will it kill performance - that is the question. Hey, if they can do something fun with it - like 7 preset ratios and make it fun - go for it. But, if they take the Ford approach to it - then god help us all. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Don't let Ford turn you off. the Rogue will have drivers opening the hood just to make sure there really is a four-cylinder engine in there — so quiet, smooth and powerful is the Rogue’s 2.5-liter, 170 horsepower motor. That engine is joined to a continuously variable transmission (CVT) with an infinite variety of ratios, so it can perfectly match the engine speed to the driving conditions. At least, that’s the theory. In practice, many CVTs, especially those sold by Ford in recent years, have annoyed drivers with engines that drone away at a constant speed as if disconnected from the car’s wheels. Nissan’s CVTs have always been better than that, and the Rogue features the latest version which is better still. A continuously variable transmission is supposed to match the efficiency of a manual transmission but with the convenience of an automatic. In the Rogue, it also matches the driving quality of a good automatic transmission. And for drivers who miss shifting gears, a steering wheel-mounted paddle shifter is available — it lets the driver change from one ratio in the CVT to another, simulating the feel of gear changes. ... But its EPA gas mileage of 22 mpg in the city and 27 mpg on the highway (under the new tougher 2008 EPA test) tops that of its rivals, probably because of the efficiency of the CVT transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Nissan is definitely leading the way with CVT. The concern that I have with CVT is how much power/torque it can handle. Nissan is pairing their CVT with the VQ35 so I guess at least it's good for 260-270 hp/ft-lb in the 3.5 V6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am driving an 08' Caliber 2.0L with the CVT for a demo. What a misreable piece of crap that Jatco CVT is. (And the whole car for that matter) You could give me a car with a CVT trans. I punch it on the highway and the tach goes right to 6500 and doesn't move.....in fact the car doesn't move either. I only average 23mpg, 60% highway. I hate it so much I am driving my own vehicles to work instead of my demo. What a POS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 fuel mileage makes no difference in my decision making on a new car. It could be rated for 3 mpg city 5 mpg highway, still wouldn't have any influence in my decision making. What does is: Comfort - are the seats comfortable, how do the materials feel Features - does it have navigation, ipod connectivity, and Sirius radio Performance - is it quick, how fast does it feel, and how is the handling Price - can I afford this vehicle? If those four areas all meet or exceed my expectations - then I consider it for purchasing. Gas mileage plays no part in my decision process. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 You could give me a car with a CVT trans. I punch it on the highway and the tach goes right to 6500 and doesn't move.....in fact the car doesn't move either. this is why i didn't get a mitsubashme lancer. cvt is good for easy stop and go traffic but when you "punch it" you can not depend on it to get you out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWP-LegacyGT Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 My guess is Subaru is simply doing this to compete with the gas mileage king : Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 My guess is Subaru is simply doing this to compete with the gas mileage king : Honda. Of course. AWD puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to fuel economy. Unfortunately not everyone is like Mike and most people are factoring in gas mileage when buying a new vehicle. I certainly do. And to be fair, a Legacy with a CVT is going to be a lot more tasteful than a Caliber with a 2.0L. So if you were to floor it in a Focus with a 4 spd auto you would more than likely get a similar response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I could see it in a 2.5i model, but who buys a turbo model for fuel efficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 CVT's will get me back in a manual if those are my only choices. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWP-LegacyGT Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 CVT's will get me back in a manual if those are my only choices. you did read that the GT's+ won't have CVT right? The only models it sounds like will be the 2.5i and the 2.5i limited on the legacy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I could see it in a 2.5i model, but who buys a turbo model for fuel efficiency? Which is why I speculated earlier that the GT and 3.0R will keep the 5EAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWP-LegacyGT Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Subaru has always been a "drivers car", both the Legacy and Impreza started their lives on the rally courses. To make the move to CVT's is plain stupid. CVT's will probably come with HID's just to piss you off further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 you did read that the GT's+ won't have CVT right? The only models it sounds like will be the 2.5i and the 2.5i limited on the legacy's. Well, if that's the case - I can't argue. I would assume a well tuned modern CVT would be better than the aging 4EAT. But, I could be wrong. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukindada Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Hopefully Subaru will go fishing in the Toyota parts bin & use a tweated version of the 7 speed AT Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Hopefully Subaru will go fishing in the Toyota parts bin & use a tweated version of the 7 speed AT You mean 8 speed auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakasama Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I could see it in a 2.5i model, but who buys a turbo model for fuel efficiency? I did. The LGT is FAR more fuel efficient than my old Jeep Cherokee. That thing used a gallon every 15 miles. Whether you were going 20mph or 80. -Jim (AKA 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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