mschmidt Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 All, I'm trying to plan my first suspension mod (after tires) for my 05LGT. I have been doing some research but can't really get a clear answer as to what path best suits my needs. I'm currently stage II with upgraded tires, Eagle F1's (summer) and Yoko AVS (winter). I have two issues (I think) with the way my LGT rides/handles. 1) Squat - Single biggest problem. On hard acceleration I'm looking at the sky. I hate this. 2) Body roll - Not as big a deal to me, but a slight reduction in roll would be nice. My goal is obviously to do this as cheap as possible. I plan to have the car for another 2 years (currently 37K) which will put me up to about 70K miles before I sell it. The ride of the car is plenty soft right now. A firmer ride does not scare me too much if I can get rid of the squat! My last car 05' RSX Type S and my wife's current car 05' Xb both have much firmer suspensions and we had no problems. I don't care if the car gets dropped at all; I think it looks fine as is. Opinions welcome. Thanks in advance. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 cheap as possible to solve your 2 issues... springs (ion or cobb) and sway bars (JDM rear or Cusco front/rear)....$450-$700 plus install...done. (ride will be more harsh , but flat with a ton less squat/dive) if you can swing upgraded struts do it...but you'll spend an extra $500-$1000. Do more searches in the suspension forum...tons of info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 coilovers. and ur done whee car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 ^ he said "cheap as possible" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 Do sway bars do anything for the squat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 Are we saying coilovers are equivalent to springs/sways to alleviate these issuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 sways eliminate sway...thats it....improves your turn in etc. coilovers replace you struts/springs. generally the set up is a ton stiffer then your stock set up (depending on brand and spring rate). due to this you may feel you don't need to upgrade sway bars. the thing with coilovers is that a lot do not have pillow ball mounts. these mounts have rubber balls on the top of the strut to reduce noise and vibrations. other coilovers that don't have this type of set up mount metal on metal....transmits noise and vibration. I'm no expert on coilovers so perhaps theirs an option for you. But expect to spend at least $1000. KW2's are good pillow ball coilovers and have a nice ride...expect to spend $1500. read this.... http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 thanks, I read that awhile ago and understand the basics of suspension. But it does not answer my question on different ways to get rid of the squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 only one way to get rid of squat, stiffer rear springs and struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 24, 2007 Author Share Posted September 24, 2007 So are we saying Han'sGT is wrong? We actually need both springs and struts? Springs alone will not reduce the squat? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I had a tremendous reduction in rear end squat with ion springs alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 found these old pics from another member....oem springs/oem struts vs. ions springs/oem struts. reduced squat and front end lift. but stiffer springs and struts are ideal. if your on a budget, just springs will get you great results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewScooby Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 So are we saying Han'sGT is wrong? We actually need both springs and struts? Springs alone will not reduce the squat? Mike I had aftermarket springs on stock struts for about 25,000 miles. They reduce squat somewhat. I thought they did alot when I first put them on. When I added KONI struts along with the aftermarket springs the car hardly squats at all. (typical stage 2 car) and the KONI's are adjustable so you can firm up the front or back as you like. The stock Legacy struts are just crap IMO. Since both springs and struts are available now, I would get struts first and then add springs if you still want a firmer ride. It's a cheaper solution than coilovers with with a lifetime warranty. About $575-600 shipped for the struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I had aftermarket springs on stock struts for about 25,000 miles. They reduce squat somewhat. I thought they did alot when I first put them on. Did you have iON sport spec? They have one of the higher rear spring rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 you need to reduce your suspension travel, this will eliminate the squat. to do this, you need to find shocks that can work with very little movement and with that said, you need to look into stiffer springs that complement that length of motion. Sway bars will help fix the roll, but if you run short-stroke suspension that is stiff enough to prevent a roll, then you dont really need it. Sway bars are a good addition to fine tune the car in lateral motion, not so much of nose-diving and squatting (aka longitudinal movements). For the most part, 90% of the shock and springs upgrade wont fix the squat as they are designed to retain as much suspension stroke for various driving conditions and different types of pavement and terrain. What you could do that IS may be cost effective is to upgrade your shocks to prevent compression (the squatting). Just changing the springs alone to something stiffer wont fix it. It's the shocks' job to control how quickly the spring gets compressed and released. The spring is only there to help take in the actual cornering forces for sustained longer periods of time in a corner, the springs are also there as more of the 'solid' portion of the suspension.. some race cars can get away with just shocks and not run springs, but runnin on pure shocks puts a LOT of stress on the valves and seals, hence the spring is there to help the shock out. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewScooby Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Did you have iON sport spec? They have one of the higher rear spring rates. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 huh, still conflicting arguements on springs alone making a difference. thanks for the pics Han's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 huh, still conflicting arguements on springs alone making a difference. thanks for the pics Han's. springs wont cut it, like I said, you need to shorten the suspension travel.. if you really want to shorten and be REALLY cheap, you can just take out the springs and just run the shocks Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 seriously. in the long run it may be cheaper to just do it once and get it over with. i've done springs only swap, struts and spring replacement, struts upgrade only, full coilover swap and honestly other than the coilover swap the other ones didnt do it for me. something never felt quite right. if you do just the springs, and after a few weeks realize you need struts too (most likely since you'll blow them in short order) then you have double the installation fee and also the price of ordering each individually, yadda yadda. in the end it would have been more time and perhaps fund efficient to go the full coilover to begin with. i say MAY, YMMV. car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 the thing with coilovers is that a lot do not have pillow ball mounts. these mounts have rubber balls on the top of the strut to reduce noise and vibrations. other coilovers that don't have this type of set up mount metal on metal....transmits noise and vibration. I'm no expert on coilovers so perhaps theirs an option for you. But expect to spend at least $1000. KW2's are good pillow ball coilovers and have a nice ride...expect to spend $1500. read this.... http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5941 You have your definition of "pillow balls" wrong. Oddly enough, "pillow balls" are actually metal spherical bearings. Seems counterintuitive, but that's what they are. Being that they make a much more direct connection between the struts and the body of the car, they do transmit a little more NVH. The stock rubber isolated top hats add a layer of isolation and compliance to the ride. Coilovers such as the KW V2's and the Megan Racing Outback coilovers which reuse the stock top hats do tend to ride a bit better than coilovers with pillowballs. You don't gain the added degree of steering precision that pillowballs offer nor the camber adjustability that pillowball equipped coilovers usually have, but you do retain closer to stock ride quality (all other things being equal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I picked up some JDM Specb takeoffs, Bilstein Rev A complete with stiffer OEM springs and tophats from unclemat. Very economical, easy to install, and a HUGE difference dynamically. No drop with these springs, but I did not really want any. You can pick up new Bilstein HD's for about $550, tophats for about $100, and JDM spec b springs for $150 or so. A lot of folks like the Swifts, which are reasonably affordable. Ions and Pinks are highly regarded, but pricier. Stiffer springs WILL reduce squat, dive and roll, but only in proportion to the rate. I think most aftermarket springs are around 20% stiffer than stock, so there you go. Keefe is right that shocks will make the most difference for transient, short duration loads, and springs will control sustained loads. Sways do nothing for squat and dive, but help roll, turn in, etc. It is all a matter of personal taste in the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 thanks for all the info guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 ^ all I know is....when the ions went on...my front end stopped reaching for the sky and the tail end felt as though it stopped most of its squating. it's a cheap alternative...try it...if it works for you great....if not spend more money and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 You have your definition of "pillow balls" wrong. Oddly enough, "pillow balls" are actually metal spherical bearings. Seems counterintuitive, but that's what they are. Being that they make a much more direct connection between the struts and the body of the car, they do transmit a little more NVH. The stock rubber isolated top hats add a layer of isolation and compliance to the ride. Coilovers such as the KW V2's and the Megan Racing Outback coilovers which reuse the stock top hats do tend to ride a bit better than coilovers with pillowballs. You don't gain the added degree of steering precision that pillowballs offer nor the camber adjustability that pillowball equipped coilovers usually have, but you do retain closer to stock ride quality (all other things being equal). Thanks Boost.... "I'm no expert on coilovers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 OK, two questions then. 1) What are everyones thoughts on how long the stock struts will last with just aftermarket springs - currently at 37K stock. 2) what springs? I do not care about the drop, looks like I want something with a high spring rate. thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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