K&N Drop-in vs. OEM

[ShrinerMonkey]

Alright, so you guys got me all stressed about the situation. I went on to KandN's website to find out what the deal is. Here is a link from them with a letter specifically about this case. It's indicating that it's illegal under federal law to void a warranty due to a different air filter. Enjoy!

 

http://knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

 

If you have problems with a fouled MAF sensor then I think this clause would be pretty easy for the dealer to prove:

 

"This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”

So if you need a new MAF sensor after using a K&N, be prepared to pay for it.

[goBlue]

If you have problems with a fouled MAF sensor then I think this clause would be pretty easy for the dealer to prove:

 

"This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”

 

So if you need a new MAF sensor after using a K&N, be prepared to pay for it.

 

haha, don't scare the poor guy. chances are maybe 1 out of 10000 people gets into warranty problems...most likely people will enjoy their K&N filters for years without any trouble. i'm just trying to play safe here.

[tdoggydog]

I wrote K&N and here's their response:

 

K&N has experienced rare instances when a consumer has stated that their dealership has blamed damage to the mass airflow sensor (MAF) or other vehicle damage on our product. The oil used in our air filters does not come off of our air filters; that is an absurd claim that some dealers have made. K&N has done extensive research related to such claims and, when possible, physical testing of sensors has occurred at an independent laboratory. As of this date, we have never found where a K&N air filter has caused a problem with a mass airflow sensor.

Please accept our apology for any frustrations you may have experienced in dealing with this issue. Please also be aware that K&N is interested in making you, our loyal customer, feel satisfied that we are fighting the good fight on this and are doing everything we can to provide you with the information you need to ask the right questions should a situation like this arise in the future.

If you have any questions which you feel you need more information on, please feel free to contact me at any time.

Thanks for choosing K&N!

Charles Thompson

Technical Support

800-858-3333

[Guest DJ Proez]

K&N drop in FTW fits perfectly lasts forever if you clean it when you need to! Defiantly noticed a difference in acceleration in my car over stock paper.

[Guest DJ Proez]

I had one in my old 96 galant and I felt a difference!

[goBlue]

does anyone know if the SPT High Flow Air Intake fits a 2.5i? i've heard people report torque loss due to it...is this true?

[Subiewagon05]

I broke in my 2005 with the OEM filter, then went and ordered the KN online. I noticed an instant climb in gas mileage from 34 to 36-37 (pure highway, 65mph, 5th gear), not only that but when I downshifted to 4th, the car's nose didn't drop from lack of air, it just kept plowing on as if i were in neutral or 5th gear. Also the engine sounded better with the KN. A few months later I heard about ripping out the silencer and tried that. I loved the sound from the lack of silencer(except for annoying drone at certain rpm), but after switching it in and out(for warranty purposes during maintenance at dealer) a few times, I'm pretty sure the car is slower (I think it just feels faster at first because 2.5i owners finally discover a purposeful sound from their engine without any exhaust mods) without the silencer, so I just leave it in now and I'm saving for the Injen CAI/Short Ram.

[andrew.anderson]

I don't know about any performance gains but our 99 Legacy runs alot better after I put in the K&N last night.

 

That could be because the old filter had been in there for 120,000 miles.

[OhBe1]

does anyone know if the SPT High Flow Air Intake fits a 2.5i? i've heard people report torque loss due to it...is this true?

 

From what I've read, it decreases power on the turbo, for which it was designed.

For a non-turbo, it probably does not fit. But if it did, I think the tubing would be oversize, leading to lean conditions that would be a Bad Thing.

[ShrinerMonkey]

I wrote K&N and here's their response:

 

K&N has experienced rare instances when a consumer has stated that their dealership has blamed damage to the mass airflow sensor (MAF) or other vehicle damage on our product. The oil used in our air filters does not come off of our air filters; that is an absurd claim that some dealers have made. K&N has done extensive research related to such claims and, when possible, physical testing of sensors has occurred at an independent laboratory. As of this date, we have never found where a K&N air filter has caused a problem with a mass airflow sensor.

 

Please accept our apology for any frustrations you may have experienced in dealing with this issue. Please also be aware that K&N is interested in making you, our loyal customer, feel satisfied that we are fighting the good fight on this and are doing everything we can to provide you with the information you need to ask the right questions should a situation like this arise in the future.

 

If you have any questions which you feel you need more information on, please feel free to contact me at any time.

 

Thanks for choosing K&N!

 

 

Charles Thompson

Technical Support

800-858-3333

Sure sounds official like. But who are you going to believe? A company trying to sell you it's wares, or the numerous TSBs put out by automotive manufactures recommending against their use?

 

It may very well be that K&Ns cause no MAF problems... but I am not going to take the risk just for 1-2hp increase at best. Not to mention the PITA cleaning and re-oiling process. To everyone that claims their mpg and performance went up after installing it... prove it. Perception is very ambiguous and increases in performance/mpg could have more to do with driving style and other variables... or like someone said a REALLY dirty filter to begin with.

[goBlue]

From what I've read, it decreases power on the turbo, for which it was designed.

For a non-turbo, it probably does not fit. But if it did, I think the tubing would be oversize, leading to lean conditions that would be a Bad Thing.

 

dealer emailed me back saying it's for GT only and probably can't be modified to be used on the 2.5i easily. i don't understand, i've heard a lot of people say NA engines benefit a lot from CAIs (especially over at ClubRSX) but why doesn't Subaru offer one for their NA engines. if they did, i would buy one even for like $300.

 

now back to drawing board...anyone know if the Injen CAI (for Impreza 2.5 supposedly) really works on our NA engines? is it really worth the $250 price tag? what about its filtration ability?

[goBlue]

use AEM's dry filter. No oils.

 

you know where i can find one for my 2.5i? i doubt if they even make one.

[MonkeyHermit]

you know where i can find one for my 2.5i? i doubt if they even make one.

 

You can go for the AVO or Blitz panel filters, those are dry.

[goBlue]

^ where can i find them for best prices? thanks!

[MonkeyHermit]

^ where can i find them for best prices? thanks!

 

$55 for AVO @ Rallitek Link

 

$55 for Blitz @ FastWRX Link

 

$155 for Blitz Induction Cover Kit @ JSC Speed Link

 

Not sure if they are the best prices, but that is where I found them. Prices don't include shipping. I just recently got an AVO panel filter from Rallitek. Not really any change in sound, but engine does seem to breathe easier.

[tdoggydog]

The AVO looks similar to the K&N - does the AVO use oil as well? Oh, and since you guys got me all scared, I already took back my K&N and will wait to see what "dry" filter would be best suited.

[MonkeyHermit]

The AVO looks similar to the K&N - does the AVO use oil as well? Oh, and since you guys got me all scared, I already took back my K&N and will wait to see what "dry" filter would be best suited.

 

Both the AVO and Blitz are dry filters. I made sure before I bought the AVO cause I was getting tired of washing and oiling K&N like filters

[goBlue]

$55 for AVO @ Rallitek Link

 

$55 for Blitz @ FastWRX Link

 

$155 for Blitz Induction Cover Kit @ JSC Speed Link

 

Not sure if they are the best prices, but that is where I found them. Prices don't include shipping. I just recently got an AVO panel filter from Rallitek. Not really any change in sound, but engine does seem to breathe easier.

 

thanks a lot for the links. the Blitz induction cover looks really interesting but i have a few concerns:

 

1. Will it fit our 2.5i intake? (it looks like it will)

2. Will it suck in more warm air and decrease performance?

3. Will I need to tune my ECU? (too expensive, won't do it anyway)

 

it's definitely sweet looking though.

[MonkeyHermit]

thanks a lot for the links. the Blitz induction cover looks really interesting but i have a few concerns:

 

1. Will it fit our 2.5i intake? (it looks like it will)

2. Will it suck in more warm air and decrease performance?

3. Will I need to tune my ECU? (too expensive, won't do it anyway)

 

it's definitely sweet looking though.

 

1. It will fit our intake systems. The 2.5i and GT both use the same intake box, but anything after that is different.

2. As always with an intake that sits in the engine bay, you are exposed to possible heat soak issues. I am unsure how the Blitz induction kit would affect performance though, whether it be good or bad.

 

3. Should not require a tune as it is not that dramatic of a mod. NA's should tune if they have done intake, headers, exhaust, and cams.

 

EDIT: The intake boxes are not exactly the same, but the filter sizes are the same. Overall the box dimensions are the same, but the outlet from the box is at a different angle.

[goBlue]

^ thanks for the answers. now i just need to pick one out of the 3. personally i like the Blitz induction cover best but the possible heat soak issues and additional cost is kinda holding me back. between the 2 drop-ins, which one do you guys prefer?

[goBlue]

The AVO looks similar to the K&N - does the AVO use oil as well? Oh, and since you guys got me all scared, I already took back my K&N and will wait to see what "dry" filter would be best suited.

 

oh come on...i probably wouldn't have taken it out if I were you. unless you're going back to OEM, which might provide better filtration. K&N's fine as long as you maintain it properly. there's no proof that any of the dry filters out there out perform K&N in terms of filtration or performance. i suspect most people that had bad luck with K&Ns were either screwed by their stealerships or idiots that over-oiled their filters. also if you think about the engine combustion chambers, how clean of a place can it be? i mean there's containments from oil too.

[ShrinerMonkey]

oh come on...i probably wouldn't have taken it out if I were you. unless you're going back to OEM, which might provide better filtration. K&N's fine as long as you maintain it properly. there's no proof that any of the dry filters out there out perform K&N in terms of filtration or performance. i suspect most people that had bad luck with K&Ns were either screwed by their stealerships or idiots that over-oiled their filters. also if you think about the engine combustion chambers, how clean of a place can it be? i mean there's containments from oil too.

Your suspicions would be wrong. My MAF sensor was fouled with the FACTORY applied oil, unless the factory over-oiled it. Keeping the combustion chamber clean has nothing to do with it. The MAF sensor and injectors, intake temp sensor, etc... need to stay as clean as possible.... those are all upstream from combustion but downstream from the air filter.

 

More power to people that want to use a K&N. They will probably never have problems with it. I just don't want to take my chances because I have been stung with replacing a MAF sensor and they ain't cheap.

[ebpda9]

let's see, i used a K&n in my old accord for about 100k miles, no problems, besides a busted radiator and a snapped timing belt at 190k. none of those have anything to do with the filter tho.

 

I put a k&n in my leggy at about 11k miles and drove it since (now it has 48k miles). I had the MAF sensor cleaned up at around 30k miles with some CRC electrical connector cleaner, and it looks and performs like new.

 

As for power improvements, forget about it. Better throttle response, and 2 mpg better

[tdoggydog]

Is there a such thing as having too much information? Now everybody is saying that aftermarket filters provide very marginal, if any, performance improvements. What's the point? It's OEM for me!

[goBlue]

Your suspicions would be wrong. My MAF sensor was fouled with the FACTORY applied oil, unless the factory over-oiled it. Keeping the combustion chamber clean has nothing to do with it. The MAF sensor and injectors, intake temp sensor, etc... need to stay as clean as possible.... those are all upstream from combustion but downstream from the air filter.

 

More power to people that want to use a K&N. They will probably never have problems with it. I just don't want to take my chances because I have been stung with replacing a MAF sensor and they ain't cheap.

 

well...K&N seems to take this issue very seriously and has a ton of info on their site. here's a little video...I can't say for sure that's not a typical infomercial but still...if a significant number of people have had similar issues with K&N filters, don't you think that there would have been a class action suite (like my Panasonic DLP TV).