apexjapan Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Spent a bit of time with the Spec B last night. A very illuminating drive, one away from the track testing and on the real roads that we all traverse. Well, real for Tokyo. These are fairly smooth roads with no potholes, just bits of new/old road bumps and humps from trucks. Now, just to fill in the background on a Spec B vs. a regular GT turbo, the Spec B has 18" wheels and rubber, slightly firmer damper and springs, a bigger rear stabilizer bar, and shorter gearing. The rubber used is the new RE050's developed for the Spec B. These are serious rubber bands, with stiff sidewalls and a lot of dry weather grip. This tyre/wheel combination adds about 5kg per corner (11lbs), which is offset by the damper/spring combination. I have to say that I am not overly impressed with the Spec B package. When you are pushing hard, it performs very well. Pushing hard, though, is a combination of full throttle runs and flinging yourself through corners at speeds that would even frighten the legendary Tokyo Taxi drivers, of whom even the most hardened street racer holds in awe. Driving it in a sedate manner highlighted the shortcomings of that suspension, with a jiggly ride that had you and your passengers feeling literally *every* bump, ripple, candy wrapper and the odd ant on the road. There was a layer of isolation from them, in that they never felt particularly jarring or sharp, but it felt on tippytoes at all times, always jiggling as I was driving down all but the smoothest of roads. Part of this can be attributed to the RE050's, which have uberstiff sidewalls. I drove an STi Legacy package with Pirelli P-Zero Nero's, and those sidewalls were much more adept at absorbing the little niggles. The tradeoff was that it didn't feel as sharp as even the GT at that point. The thing was, back to back with my uberRSK with all the suspension bits on it, my RSK actually rode better while maintaining a flatter profile through the twisties. Subaru has come a long way, but some of their suspension tuning ideas need a bit more thinking through. 5-speed autobox's are a nice idea as well. I did notice that there was a minor weakness to it's setup, though. 2.0-litre turbo motors have a rather extreme switch from off-boost to on-boost in terms of torque delivered, and I believe that makes it hard to calibrate an automatic's feel for the two extremes. On boost performance from the automatic yield's crisp shifts that will push you back in the seat on upshifts, but a bit lurchy on downshifts. Cruising in sport mode felt the best with the turbo motor, as that kept it in the power band a bit better. When driving in pure automatic mode, especially with eco on, it really was a low-compression 2.0 NA motivating an over 3000lb vehicle. I think this is where the 2.5 GT in the states will really shine, with better torque off-boost and less of a gap between on and off-boost. The front seats are quite nice, but they will not fit Americans. Pure and simple, I am skinny by US terms, at 6 feet and 170 odd lbs. That does not tell the whole story, as my hips are quite narrow and I am literally the only foreigner in the group of drivers here that fits in nearly any race seat that the Japanese use. The seats in the Legacy are just barely big enough for me, quite snug, really, especially around the shoulders where I take up a bit more room. I quite understand a need for a different seat in the USDM market. I am actually thinking of getting a JDM STi v8 seat for me, it actually feels to have a bit more room while being better bolstered in sport driving. Just some notes about the car while I had it. Tomorrow I will be starting to break in the new GT with STi front lip and rear lip spoiler. :D Cheers, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Thanks Paul! Sounds like the GT will be perfect for my needs. Now, how much will it be again? :wink: :lol: -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 We're going to require pictures Paul. :D (Now don't you feel you've found yourself at home with Legacy folks instead of just the gigantic mix at the other place? :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Great write up Paul. I agree that this thread need some pics asap. Glad to hear that the USDM model may be a bit more daily friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P2x Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Thanks for the nice little write up Paul. We've all been missing them on NASIOC, so it's good to see you "back in action"... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ha-evolution Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Definately nice to have Paul posting here. Now it doesn't hurt so much knowing that we aren't getting the Spec B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='Dr. Zevil']Great write up Paul. I agree that this thread need some pics asap. Glad to hear that the USDM model may be a bit more daily friendly.[/quote] :needpics: I don't really mean that, just wanted to test the 6 new smilies I added. I sure people will still want more, but I picked a few of the best. Great write-up Paul, congrats on soon being able to pick up your new ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Fantastic write up Paul, well done. I would have to agree that the USA will eat up the 2.5 GT if it has all the right specs including the bench seat behind the wheel. It will be very interesting to see what the takeup is as Im sure the US will be used as a guide for the rest of the World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ20H-TT Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Nice story Regards handling of the spec B, I have heard similar things from an owner here. Great in a straight line but didn't like the handling. Although mind u his other car is a 22B ! Roads here are too rough for some JDM suspensions - 350Z is another example. Great on the race track but in the real world of bumps etc, not so flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Thanks Paul - great review! :) [quote name='apexjapan']Cruising in sport mode felt the best with the turbo motor, as that kept it in the power band a bit better. When driving in pure automatic mode, especially with eco on, it really was a low-compression 2.0 NA motivating an over 3000lb vehicle. I think this is where the 2.5 GT in the states will really shine, with better torque off-boost and less of a gap between on and off-boost.[/quote] This is sorta what I'm concerned about since I intend to buy an automatic. I do a lot of driving in the 40-60 mph range where the auto would naturally want to go to 5th in full-auto mode. To get a burst of acceleration I'd need both a downshift (or two) and some time to get the turbo spooled. To keep the car responsive I'd need to run it in sport mode all the time (Washington DC traffic is kill or be killed, no holds barred) but then what would be the point of an automatic? Maybe I should just get the manual and teach the wifey to drive it (barely) if/when she ever needs to. Hmmmmm.... The ideal compromise for me would be a full auto mode that you can limit to just 1-4 or 1-3 like how most of them work ("D5, D4, and D3" on a Honda), and then the manual mode on top of that. I think I'm being too picky though. I mean, they've got shift buttons right on the steering wheel too, plus the shift lever. I'll still probably end up with the auto. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 yep...I'm being too picky. [quote]With the SPORTSHIFT feature, the driver can choose to shift manually using the console shift handle or shift buttons on the steering wheel. When placed in “D,” the lever can be toggled to the left for manual shift control, and then pushed forward for upshifts and pulled rearward for downshifts. The transmission can provide temporary access to manual mode when in “D” by using the steering wheel shift buttons.[/quote] That's good enough for me. I'll still probably get the auto. Eventually. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Thinking out loud are we? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Great write up Paul. Can you comment on the mystery RE-92s on the GT? Do you guys get the same tire over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 And while we're at it, what tyres do the Kiwi/Aussie cars get? Anyone? Seems like SOA is in bed with Bridgestone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ20H-TT Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 For NZ 215/45 R18 87W - Bridgestone Potenza RE050A I am pretty sure. Just like the JDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 How about on the regular GT rather than the Spec. B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I'm not entirely positive, but the sites make it sound like the 050A is also on the regular GT models. We should be getting the RE92A's. SLIGHTLY different tread pattern and I'm sure compounds, not sure how much different it will handle over standard RE92's though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 photos of a loaner...[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Beautiful pictures! I'm wondering, would it be possible to fit the Spec-B bumper onto the US-spec Legacy? Or is it too early to say? -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteVTEC Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 yummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 If the offer a special bumper pack with the Spec B style, it would be tantylizing indeed. Guess I'm not as torn over the extra depth and in some instances it's sort of nicer, particularly in the rear. :) Nice pics Paul! What color is the new one? I don't remember if you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan2 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Right - gotta set something straight ;) Some folks are gonna hate the spec B (lord knows I've said enuff about it elsewhere), but some are going to love it. Like me :D The issue of course is that just because a few diehards like it, that does not make it an ideal choice in a market where less importance is placed on out of the box performance IMHO. And since the Legacy is the volume king for Subaru, I doubt the spec B would make it to the US for example as a catalog model (who knows if a high performance version may or may not show up later). The spec B's suspension is definitely not for the faint hearted if you live in the city, but once you find a decent bit of open limit twisty blacktop, tighten the belts, and take a deep breath, I bet many would be seriously torn about the choice (also, it is hard to think while doing a U turn and repeating the ride again :D ). At a drive day last year, all the models were there for testing, and I really found the spec B to be far and away the best for my tastes, with the GT a close second due to its' extra roll which scrubbed the fronts more then the point and shoot spec B. Those tyres (the heavy duty, hi-grip 050 vs the less aggro 17s), the wel controlled roll and the shorter gearing add up to some serious " :D " for the committed driver. As some know, I also had a spec B for a month and found it tough to stay away from it. The handling and performance was addictive to say the least. I think the GT is defintely the better offer for Joe Public though (but having said that, I see lots of spec Bs in my area). The softer suspension and taller gearing make for a more relaxed car that more people will find to their liking I believe. So, to Paul, I say :P ;) And congrats on your new car. Cheers :) PS don't forget that the spec B has better aerodynamics (less lift) than the GT. And with the addition of the chin spoiler, the spec B is essentially a zero lift machine at the front (good for those who drive at velocities where that may be useful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Good notes, and welcome! The only question is, did we hear from Jeff of Anthony? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ20H-TT Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Yes had me doing a double take - till i saw the "2" Tht Paul was having some sort of bi polar episode ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ20H-TT Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 But getting to the spec b On open highway driving at speed does it cope with secondary roads rougher nature. Say going round a bend hit a bump or patch in the road - does the car still feel settled ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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