Speed3 hits 300/300 on stock turbo

[Barrok]

I test drove the Mazdaspeed3 and it definatly didn't feel as fast as my stage 1 lgt. I liked the car, nice car but I didn't feel nearly as safe taking a corner at fast speeds as I do with my lgt. It is a nice, well built car though and fast. I actually got honked at on my test drive because I wanted to pass an escalade, which I did pass it, but it was alot closer of a call than if I had my LGT.

[Ignignokt]

like I said, talk is just talk. go drive one and feel for yourself.

 

A good friend of mine just bought one, it's a sweet car. I'm waiting for him to break it in so we can have some fun with it - if it had been out when I bought the lgt I might be driving one today, even with the fwd.

[lawl]

A good friend of mine just bought one, it's a sweet car. I'm waiting for him to break it in so we can have some fun with it - if it had been out when I bought the lgt I might be driving one today, even with the fwd.

 

if i could have afforded it i would have gotten one. but the used lgt was 5 grand cheaper and within my range. too bad no used ms3 at the time.

 

but i dont regret my decision at all.

[BOXRPWR]

having owned both now, I can say they are really "apples & oranges" by comparison. not just the obvious like AWD v. FWD. the Legacy GT is eye-catching, exclusive (should sell 10X more), roomier, and puts its power down seemlessly in stock form. the MS3 feels both more raw and more radical. the 6MT is tight once you upgrade to stiffer bushings and engine mount. if you disengage skid & traction control and drop the clutch, you can get enough wheel hop to chatter your teeth. it feels lighter although it only weighs about 200 lbs less. and the stock brakes are to die-for. simple, single piston design somehow offers supercar stopping power.*

 

I have a love affair with both. My former LGT will always be a special car in my lifetime. Not just for tens of thousands of $$$'s it drained from my bank account, but for the sense of exclusivity it afforded me. I still keep a picture of it taken in front of the Queen Mary as my PC desktop at work.

 

The Speed3 on the other hand makes me feel like a kid again in many ways. Not because its a "boy-racer" econobox.....its much more refined than that. it's simply a blast to drive. just the other day I noticed myself smiling widely during a commute to work and I never exceeded the posted speed limits (well, not meaningfully anyway). I was simply enjoying the slick shifter, new sport springs and awesome brakes.

 

I will never hesitate to recommend or applaud the choice of a nice Subaru. I simply expanded my horizons to another purpose-built, enthusiast automobile.

 

 

 

* AutoWeek May 28 edition, pg. 21 MS3 braking from 60 mph = 106 ft. same test track previously Porsche Carrera GT braking 60 mph = 104 ft.

[BOXRPWR]

hope you guys don't mind that I continue this thread discussion just a bit more. I realize it seems that I'm tootin the Speed3 horn too much, but honestly, my intention is to share what I find to be very interesting observations on the way the ECU manages the MS3 performance.

 

it is widely published that the Speed3 regulates boost in the lower rpms to manage torque-steer using the wastegate to "bleed off excess boost". but early tests posted by Cobb Tuning suggests its actually the behavior of the throttle valve that impacts how boost is regulated. specifically, Cobb reported that the throttle behaves oddly in terms of opening and partially closing even under WOT conditions when you'd expect it to remain well.....wide open.

 

this thread started talking about the Standback ECU mgmt device under development by CPE. on the Mazda forum CPE posted a very interesting plot and their observations during dyno testing the Speed3. here's what they had to say.............

 

Here is a data log we took on the dyno with our SPEED3. We were dyno testing the intake and exhaust, as well as validating the Standback. So, we played around datalogging in different gears, different boost levels, and we also observed what the car did in response to our changes. As you can see below, I have charted the boost pressure as measured in the manifold, the throttle position (indicated in volts) and the wastegate position (2 is wide open, and 250 is closed shut). Note: I screwed up the primary y-axis. It says only boost pressure, but that axis also corresponds to the throttle position in volts. So 4 would indicate 4-volts, which is essentially wide open throttle.

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/MS3dataplot.jpg

 

Now, you'll notice that at about 5200rpm the throttle (in pink) begins to close. But notice what the boost pressure does (in blue). The boost pressure begins to taper off with the throttle! But you may ask yourself, "Well, how do we know that the wastegate isn't what is slowing the turbo down?" Well, if you look at the wastegate (in yellow) it begins to close as the boost pressure starts dropping off. Since our piggyback has a smart boost control function, it will try to "seek" whatever boost pressure you command. In other words, if the turbo can make the boost, then the piggyback will adjust the wastegate until your desired boost pressure is achieved. So you can clearly see that the boost pressure starts to drop off as the throttle closes, and as a result the wastegate closes in order to build up more boost, but it can't! So unless you can control the throttle, you really can't hold your boost pressure. The throttle is the key to unlocking the potential of this vehicle in my humble opinion.

 

 

So what do you think is Mazda's tuning philosophy with regard to throttle control? My first guess is that they are using it to "confine" the turbo within its higher operating efficiency range. at least that's my opinion regarding why it closes at higher rpm's and seems to cause the turbo to fall off the table. perhaps they are trying to restrict maximum air flow (volumetric mass) thus in turn they reduce boost (delta-P) and bring the turbo back into the circle.

 

or maybe I'm completely wrong about it.

[Beanboy]

I'm still scratching my head about how much is actually left from a K04 turbo on a 2.3L, even with direct injection. Any more research as to what tweaking the turbo on the Mazda received?

 

Might be a reason for all the throttle control funny business/flat on face at high revs folks seem to be discovering.

[lawl]

having owned both now, I can say they are really "apples & oranges" by comparison. not just the obvious like AWD v. FWD. the Legacy GT is eye-catching, exclusive (should sell 10X more), roomier, and puts its power down seemlessly in stock form. the MS3 feels both more raw and more radical. the 6MT is tight once you upgrade to stiffer bushings and engine mount. if you disengage skid & traction control and drop the clutch, you can get enough wheel hop to chatter your teeth. it feels lighter although it only weighs about 200 lbs less. and the stock brakes are to die-for. simple, single piston design somehow offers supercar stopping power.*

 

I have a love affair with both. My former LGT will always be a special car in my lifetime. Not just for tens of thousands of $$$'s it drained from my bank account, but for the sense of exclusivity it afforded me. I still keep a picture of it taken in front of the Queen Mary as my PC desktop at work.

 

The Speed3 on the other hand makes me feel like a kid again in many ways. Not because its a "boy-racer" econobox.....its much more refined than that. it's simply a blast to drive. just the other day I noticed myself smiling widely during a commute to work and I never exceeded the posted speed limits (well, not meaningfully anyway). I was simply enjoying the slick shifter, new sport springs and awesome brakes.

 

I will never hesitate to recommend or applaud the choice of a nice Subaru. I simply expanded my horizons to another purpose-built, enthusiast automobile.

 

 

 

* AutoWeek May 28 edition, pg. 21 MS3 braking from 60 mph = 106 ft. same test track previously Porsche Carrera GT braking 60 mph = 104 ft.

 

 

I'm all about apples and oranges. After not going for the ms3 due to price, i was cross shopping the s2000 and the legacy. To me it's easy to choose between 2 of the same car, but 2 different cars with different characteristics, that's hard.

 

legacy gt vs. mazdaspeed6? easy. cant go wrong with either. almost the same car.

 

legacy GT vs. s2000? hard as hell. do i want power or the handling? space or the convertible top? many a sleepless night debating in my head.

 

i think the ms3 fits me perfect- just out of college, still look like i'm in high school, nice space, utility... too bad no used ones.

 

but im still interested to know how the ms3 is doing. looks like not bad

[BDII]

I'm definately feeling the itch again. I've already got the bigger TMIC to avoid any heat soak (timing retardation) due to hot weather conditions. I'm still on 100% stock air intake and exhaust.

 

ballpark figures are CAI $250 TMIC $550 TBE $1,100 "Standback" $500. So about $2,500 bucks. Certainly not cheap. But was is for fun-fun-fun!

 

 

$380: catted DP

$120: catless UP

$650: cobb AP

$300: dyno tune (2 hours)

$950: FMIC

$100: Gaskets and Misc part

 

=$2,500 = 280whp

 

WHY ARE OUR FMIC's SO EXPENSIVE!??!?!!?

[VTGT]

I'd like to see an ms3 at the track. I read the last few posts but how much wheel-spin is there off the line?