suspension stage 1 upgrades?

[typeSpeed]

Are there any performance companies who will release a suspension upgrade that will include the The STi Aluminum strut braces, and Legacy STi Pink Sport Springs?

Group buy would be a nice option.

[fressshhh]

what about a group buy for just sti pink springs?

[BoxerGT2.5]

Strut Bar=wont do jack that you can feel. But it looks perdy under the hood. :)

[FTSELGP]

[quote name='BoxerGT2.5']Strut Bar=wont do jack that you can feel. But it looks perdy under the hood. :)[/QUOTE]I, respectfully, disagree with this. Strut tower help noticeably in hard driving conditions by lessening the chassis flex that occurs. Especially with WRX and Legacy platforms, where 60% of the weight sits in between the front strut towers. In the wagon, it is equally useful to have one in the rear; IMHO. However, choosing the right one is important just like any chassis component. I personally do not like "replica" bars as they are thin and made of questionable materials. On the other hand, I have not yet looked into various options to be able to suggest a good one either :)

[gtguy]

[quote name='FT@SELGP']I, respectfully, disagree with this. Strut tower help noticeably in hard driving conditions by lessening the chassis flex that occurs. Especially with WRX and Legacy platforms, where 60% of the weight sits in between the front strut towers. In the wagon, it is equally useful to have one in the rear; IMHO. However, choosing the right one is important just like any chassis component. I personally do not like "replica" bars as they are thin and made of questionable materials. On the other hand, I have not yet looked into various options to be able to suggest a good one either :)[/QUOTE] No, no, no. But if you believe that it works, then it works. You will never, ever drive your car sufficiently hard on the street, or even most tracks, where a strut tower bar will make a lick of difference. And at that point, it's time to be thinking about a real track car, with an actual cage. The new GT is sufficently stiff that you will not induce chassis flex. So was the WRX, and the GT is stiffer than that car. Kevin

[Ninjapimp]

[quote name='gtguy'] The new GT is sufficently stiff that you will not induce chassis flex. So was the WRX, and the GT is stiffer than that car. Kevin[/QUOTE] Agreed. Hydroformed new-design frame and MMC technology make the chassis flex next to none, but hey it's your money.

[Xenonk]

Kevin, believe it or not, the car does take a beating and the chassis will flex a bit.. typical spot welds in certain areas will show up.. it doesnt take too much to bend and twist some of today's cars.. (a good indication that the car does get a little beating is from the roll it feels). I would admit that strut bars and sway bars with excessive bends in the designs are pointless and useless.. but if you happend to weld a bar from strut tower to strut tower, I bet you would notice the difference coming through an off-ramp. Ever seen how a Mercedes Benz designed their "strut bar" into their cars? it's a welded sheet of metal from the strut tower to the firewall.. same goes for some Hondas with their strut towers to the firewall. Keefe

[B4_Maniac]

I have to say..I had a STB in my 01 Leggy and 04RX8..and I felt that it did add to the driving experience.

[gtguy]

I'm just not buying it, for street driving. I'll buy it for a track car, or rally car, certainly. Those are extraordinary stresses on the chassis. But street driving? No way, no how. Kevin

[Xenonk]

Kevin drives like a grandma :p :eek: :p Keefe

[B4_Maniac]

Grandma Kevin! I wonder if he will read us a bed time storey about cars back in his day...back when they still had wooden wheels..and two horse power came with 8 legs..:D

[BoxerGT2.5]

[quote name='FT@SELGP']I, respectfully, disagree with this. Strut tower help noticeably in hard driving conditions by lessening the chassis flex that occurs. Especially with WRX and Legacy platforms, where 60% of the weight sits in between the front strut towers. In the wagon, it is equally useful to have one in the rear; IMHO. However, choosing the right one is important just like any chassis component. I personally do not like "replica" bars as they are thin and made of questionable materials. On the other hand, I have not yet looked into various options to be able to suggest a good one either :)[/QUOTE] Two point strut tower braces in my opinion do very little for ya. If someone made a 4point then I might think otherwise (will never happen) You'd be better off waiting till manufactures make parts to stiffen the chassis from underneath the car. :)

[B4_Maniac]

Oookay..try this.. take off your STB of on your RX8..and lets see what your driveing impressions are after that. Oh..and for the 8 there is a Mazda Speed four pointer..

[Xenonk]

I would have to say that a very good positioned bar will do wonders for the car. I remember putting in my harness bar on my WRX (it bolted from B-pillar to B-pillar and it was anchored at the bottom of the B-pillars making it a 4-point harness bar). It did made a difference for the car (since the cabin of the doesnt have any structural braces to prevent the car from twisting). If there is a very good strut bar that you can weld a straight pipe across, that would be the one to get. I, for one, love my car to be more tail happy.. so no additional front braces for me.. on the GT in the rear, it doesnt even need a strut bar because it uses the trunk floor as a brace.. it doesnt get any better than that. Keefe

[BoxerGT2.5]

[quote name='B4_Maniac']Oookay..try this.. take off your STB of on your RX8..and lets see what your driveing impressions are after that. Oh..and for the 8 there is a Mazda Speed four pointer..[/QUOTE] I have....but then again I have the front and rear Tanabe Sways. Didn't see much of a change. However, I do have the MS 4 pointer. Wouldn't waste my money on the JIC 2 point.

[FTSELGP]

[quote name='gtguy']I'm just not buying it, for street driving. I'll buy it for a track car, or rally car, certainly. Those are extraordinary stresses on the chassis. But street driving? No way, no how. Kevin[/QUOTE]Dear Kevin: I agree with you that for street driving is usefulness is minimal and most drivers won't feel it; but so does the 250 torque IMHO, but that is a different matter :) However, the number of people taking the car to the track or autocross will be increasing; and dismissing a proven item from the start will mislead them. Also, you don't need to have a race-prep'd car to feel the benefits of a strut bar, actually it is least useful in a race-prep'd car due to the many other chassis stiffening measure taken any way; such as the roll cage, etc. The chassis flex is quite significant, btw, in the Legacy. I can feel quite a bit of it, and I am researching the torque numbers currently for that particular chassis. [quote name='BoxerGT2.5']Two point strut tower braces in my opinion do very little for ya. If someone made a 4point then I might think otherwise (will never happen) You'd be better off waiting till manufactures make parts to stiffen the chassis from underneath the car. :)[/QUOTE]There is no question that a 3-point or 4-point bar is better than 2-point; but some of us have to live within the Solo II rule book's constraints :) We should just bring all of the STi Suspension threads over to these boards for reference may be :p

[rc0032]

[font=Times New Roman]So if the Strut bar is not the first upgrade what it? I know this depends on the driver, where he drives and what he wants from the car…but im thinking sway bars? [/font] [font=Times New Roman]My situation- I do a lot of 50mph stop and go on local streets and a fair amount on the highway at 80mph. I want to have the ability to drive this everyday without killing my back. I also want to get rid of the boat feeling (bouncing/ floating up and down after crossing a bridge or other uneven pavement) on the highway. [/font] [font=Times New Roman]Right now im planning on sways and some pink springs. A mild drop and a little bit stiffer but when the wife gets in the car she wont complain.[/font][font=Times New Roman] :lol: [/font] [font=Times New Roman][/font] [font=Times New Roman][/font] [font=Times New Roman]EDIT: [font='Times New Roman']Also can anyone tell me why my replies show up in little a$$ font? Or is this just something I see? [/font][/font]

[gtguy]

Sorry, but no, no, no, no. Outside of the track, and no, autocross won't do it, STBs are bling. Now, people can espouse all sorts of "princess and the pea" like arguments about being able to feel chassis flex, etc, etc., or label me "grandma," and other things. But they won't make me buy into the bling. Now, drug companies perform tests of medications. Some people get sugar pills, and are still "cured." That is, in the control group, some people get the real medicine, some get the placebo. How can we explain the placebo people getting better? One explanation is time. Illnesses, particularly colds, flus, allergies and the like, get better over time. The other is that the human mind is a powerful thing, particularly when influenced by a line item on a credit card statement. :lol: What's funny is that the Legacy GT is just like the WRX. I had the same discussions with people regarding the merits of strut tower braces on that car. I even bought some, and tried them, and you know what? That's right. Useless. Luckily, they hold their resale value well, for the quick turnaround. :lol: As with any mod, anybody who wants to can go right out and get one, put it on and say that it works. Rock on. Kevin

[FTSELGP]

Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree Kevin, it is certainly alright, people have their opinions; I am certainly not trying to sell a strut bar ;) [quote name='rclark0032'][font=Times New Roman]So if the Strut bar is not the first upgrade what it? I know this depends on the driver, where he drives and what he wants from the car…but im thinking sway bars? [/font] [font=Times New Roman]My situation- I do a lot of 50mph stop and go on local streets and a fair amount on the highway at 80mph. I want to have the ability to drive this everyday without killing my back. I also want to get rid of the boat feeling (bouncing/ floating up and down after crossing a bridge or other uneven pavement) on the highway. [/font] [font=Times New Roman]Right now im planning on sways and some pink springs. A mild drop and a little bit stiffer but when the wife gets in the car she wont complain.[/font][font=Times New Roman] :lol: [/font] [font=Times New Roman]EDIT: [font=Times New Roman]Also can anyone tell me why my replies show up in little a$$ font? Or is this just something I see? [/font][/font][/QUOTE][b][b]rclark -[/b][/b] IMHO, anti-roll bars (or swaybars as many call them) can certainly be the first upgrade, they would provide noticeable improvements. However, anti-roll bars will not help with the floaty feeling that this car has. Again, IMHO, the stock shocks' valving is not approapriate for this car. I tried to summarize my observations in another thread ([url="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4690"]http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4690[/url]), but basically the low-speed compression parameters of the shocks are quite off the mark for the Legacy. I am yet to see Subaru get the shocks right in any of their vehicles, so it is not a suprise. To fix that you need new shocks, which we are looking into it. Unfortunately, springs alone won't help the situation. Shocks alone is an expensive proposition, and springs only is not enough; so it looks like the best bang for the buck is a set of nicely valved shocks with a little higher rate springs in a coilover configuration. In terms of the NVH, if shocks are valved too agressively, it will suffer to some degree. We are trying to figure out what would be a nice compromise, we'll see... Cheers, FT

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

STB's make a difference. Not a huge one, in my experience, but enough to make me go "Cool!". The real STB for us wagon guys is the rear- I had one on my WRX wagon and what a difference. You didn't need to be racing around a track to feel it.

[rc0032]

[font='Times New Roman']I don’t have much experience with [color=black]coilovers but I view them as beyond my needs both in what they offer and cost. [/color][/font]

[BoxerGT2.5]

[quote name='FT@SELGP']Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree Kevin, it is certainly alright, people have their opinions; I am certainly not trying to sell a strut bar ;) [/QUOTE] Even though your wrong about the STB.... :lol: J/K It is nice to see a guy keep things civil and be respectful. Kudos to you bro.. :D

[FTSELGP]

[quote name='BoxerGT2.5']Even though your wrong about the STB.... :lol: J/K It is nice to see a guy keep things civil and be respectful. Kudos to you bro.. :D[/QUOTE]Thank you :)

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='rclark0032'][font=Times New Roman]I don’t have much experience with [color=black]coilovers but I view them as beyond my needs both in what they offer and cost. [/color][/font][/QUOTE] Coilovers are not the answer to every one's suspension needs. They are for me though!:D Inverted struts are a wonderfull thing too! I love my coilovers. But, u also have to find a set that would work well for ya!

[gtguy]

[quote name='FT@SELGP']Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree Kevin, it is certainly alright, people have their opinions; I am certainly not trying to sell a strut bar ;) [b][b]rclark -[/b][/b] IMHO, anti-roll bars (or swaybars as many call them) can certainly be the first upgrade, they would provide noticeable improvements. However, anti-roll bars will not help with the floaty feeling that this car has. Again, IMHO, the stock shocks' valving is not approapriate for this car. I tried to summarize my observations in another thread ([url="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4690"]http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4690[/url]), but basically the low-speed compression parameters of the shocks are quite off the mark for the Legacy. I am yet to see Subaru get the shocks right in any of their vehicles, so it is not a suprise. To fix that you need new shocks, which we are looking into it. Unfortunately, springs alone won't help the situation. Shocks alone is an expensive proposition, and springs only is not enough; so it looks like the best bang for the buck is a set of nicely valved shocks with a little higher rate springs in a coilover configuration. In terms of the NVH, if shocks are valved too agressively, it will suffer to some degree. We are trying to figure out what would be a nice compromise, we'll see... Cheers, FT[/QUOTE] I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. :D It's all good. The floaty feeling is a whole 'nother matter. You're right about the sways. I think that the damping/suspension setup of the car clearly takes USDM roads into account. But they also take into account the fondness of the average American for a plush-ish ride. And like all Subaru struts, they are stiff at the point of initial compression. They don't all but collapse after that point, like the '02-'03 WRX struts did, however. And thank the stars for that. Have you had a gander at the STi pink spring threads? It looks as if people are finding solutions based on a simple spring application, which is interesting, though not surprising, given that the product in question comes from STi. I think that there's a lot of unknown with this car, still. For example, I'd love to know the stock spring rates, aside from "soft." :lol: The other question is what someone wants from a car. Having been down the coilover road, I don't know that I would ever do it again. Finding a coilover with OE quality (as in "set and forget), fit, NVH and ride quality, is difficult. As some parameters change, others might become less desirable. I'm pretty impressed with the stock GT suspension, given the necessary compromises attendant to a stock car. Kevin