Porcupine 1, Pitbull 0

[sutter2k]

Six weeks ago we had to put down our 7 year old Pitbull, Grit. My son brought him back from college, where he adopted him from a rescue agency. I was not keen on the idea. Naturally, the son moved out but Gritty stayed with us. The dog, a neutered male, was far less aggressive and much more affectionate than my old Welsh Terrier. I guess dogs within a breed, like people, have different temperments.

 

 

What was the reason the dog was put down?

[Vimy101]

Looking around for information, I found this clip.

 

very impressive control

dog in many situations, even with multiple decoys simultaneously

 

Google, "pit bull attack". Take your pick.

 

What's with this "savior" thing? Cull them all. Plenty of dogs out there and if you have food they'll love you.

[sutter2k]

^^ Did you think that was a pit bull??

[Whitestar Pilot]

Google, "pit bull attack". Take your pick.

 

What's with this "savior" thing? Cull them all. Plenty of dogs out there and if you have food they'll love you.

 

Why are you so hung up on the 'savior' comment the video made?

 

If you were born into this world a Pit Bull pup, and had little chance of living the normal life of a family dog, but instead faced a strong propability of being abused as a pup, and then used for sport in a fighting ring, laughed at as you bled to death in this ring... but then, low and behold, instead of facing this path you were adopted by a loving family, would you not consider this family your 'savior?'

 

What's the big deal with that choice of words?

 

And I was going to jump in on the '1,000 years of breeding' thing, but Jim beat me to it. You obviously didn't follow my link or spend any real amount of time on that page.

 

Like others have said, where is your resource, other than a couple of sensationalized news clips?

 

And stop saying that Pit Bulls were bred to show aggression towards ANYTHING. That is also wrong. They were originally bred to grab a bull by the nose, and pull it to the ground if it wandered from the herd. Then they were bred to fight OTHER DOGS, with selective qualities added such as loyalty, and the awareness not to bite their owner when being pulled out of a fight.

 

I might add, that I've seen the original trait of bull herding come out of my dog! Very interesting, so I'm going to share.

 

One day, I made the mistake of preparing both of my dog's dinners on the kitchen counter in front of them. My other dog, Raven, is a doberman/bird dog mix of some sort, tall, slender and black. Much taller than my Pit Bull, Reese.

 

I heard this odd noise, and looked down to see that Reese had locked onto Raven's snout and had her face pinned to the kitchen floor! I shouted, Reese let go, and there were no puncture marks. Imagine that, Vimy. Reese could have ripped Raven's throat out at will, but instead simply chose to inform her that she would be eating 2nd! LOL, I never made that mistake again though.

 

--

 

Now, Vimy, you're probably thinking, "See, its all about food in a dog's mind."

 

Well, wrong again. For a Pit Bull, it is about pleasing the master, and that is why they show aggression, I've already covered this in prior posts, but these dogs require not just food, but affection. Acceptance, and love.

 

And you should see how Reese and Raven act around my 7-month-old son. When he is in his crib, they will sit at its base looking towards the bedroom door, guarding him.

 

Throughout my boy's life, as long as those two dogs are around him, no stranger will ever be allowed to approach him! This is typical 'protective' behaviour that most dogs will display around the children of the house. And it has nothing to do with food. Its called loyalty. Those dogs would lay down their lives for that baby.

 

--

[sutter2k]

I don't pretend to know anything about pit bulls, I have not been around enough of them to label them all as bad or good. I can count on two hands all the times I have been around them, only once was one aggressive. That was the last mistake he ever made. The others seemed quite well adjusted to people, and I had no problems with them. One female that I recall was very affectionate, and the only bad thing about her was her breath.

 

I have had a chocolate lab/blue heeler mix chase me on a bike before and stay aggressive even after I stopped moving. Again last mistake for that dog. Are labs or blue heelers known for vicious behavior? No. The problem with all those dogs is lack of proper socialization and discipline.

 

My wife's grandmother, a frail woman in her 80's, is on her 5th Rottweiler a breed that has a bad reputation for being aggressive. The dog is one of the best I have ever been around, very gentle, and obeys commands immediately. Her next dog will be a lap dog, not because she considers Rottweilers to be too dangerous, but she concedes she can't exercise the dogs like they need to be to keep fit.

 

That does not mean that all dogs will be good even given a good loving home. They can still turn bad. A great deal of this does have to do with breeding, and responsible breeding. Breeding a dog that cowers from people and has a history of fear aggression is something to be avoided, just as breeding a dog with a history of active aggressive behavior should be avoided. Unfortunately f***-stick ghetto/red neck/general scum bag breeders will breed dogs that display the attributes they find most desirable, like aggressive behavior. This gives the breed, any breed, a bad name. Take a pair of nice even tempered pit bulls and breed them, and chances are good that if given a good home the pups will grow up to be nice even tempered pit bulls. Take a pair of really aggressive pit bulls and breed them, and the chances are good that if given a good home the pups could be fine but they probably stand a greater chance of being aggressive than pups coming from even tempered breeding stock. That goes for any breed of dog.

 

Well said. I would rather have a confident dog with some alpha drive(not an extreme drive though) than a fearful/weak nerve'd dog.

 

However put that animal with a little bit of drive into the wrong family and you have an accident waiting to happen.

 

It can be a "loving" family.

For instance, my aunt got a springer

spaniel. These dogs like many other hunting dogs are often food aggressive. On top of that, my uncle would play games with it where he would pretend to take its bone. The dog would growl and he would laugh.

 

They did not obedience train the dog. It slept in bed with them and they played games of tug of war, thus further teaching the dog it was on the same level as them.

 

One day when my aunt tried to get the dog off the sofa, it bit her in the arm.

The dog really didn't have that strong of an alpha drive, but they taught it that is was alpha. (plus it was naturally food aggressive)

 

 

re: Take a pair of really aggressive pit bulls and breed them, and the chances are good that if given a good home the pups could be fine but they probably stand a greater chance of being aggressive than pups coming from even tempered breeding stock.

True, and they will require more capable owners as well. Ones that know its not worth the risk at the dog park.

[LordJim]

^ I've seen pitbulls attack humans. I've seen them attack dogs. I've seen them attack cats (at least they're normal in that reagard but they do kill them instantly). I've seen them attack bulls and get killed because they're so stupidly aggressive now that they don't have the sense to know what they can't take on i.e. the opening pixors on this thread. I've read stories of them attacking anything and everything.

 

You seem to have a lot of experience with this breed. Mind if I ask where it came from? I'm curious, Vimy, because you seem to have more than most, and somehow it's all sensational.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[speeddr7]

really sensational, and true Im sure

[GTTuner]

And I thought a Pit couldn't get any uglier!

[pacbreak gt]

What was the reason the dog was put down?

 

Brain tumor-whodathunk?

[BoxerGT2.5]

 

What's with this "savior" thing? Cull them all. Plenty of dogs out there and if you have food they'll love you.

 

 

 

Because if it were up to people like you, American Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Bulldogs, ect would be put down as puppies before they ever had a chance.

 

I'm not discounting the fact that the breed has been polluted, any reputable breeder will agree, but to do away with an entire breed that at one time was as American as apple pie is unfathomable. Anyone who knows "Pit Bulls" and cares for the breed will agree with you that if the dog was used in fighting, or in a manner not consistent with a good upbringing, only one thing can happen with those dogs and that is to be put to sleep.

 

Exterminate one breed, and there will be another in line after that, and another, and another. Pits, Rotts, Dobes, Germans, ect ect ect.

[LordJim]

Anyone who knows "Pit Bulls" and cares for the breed will agree with you that if the dog was used in fighting, or in a manner not consistent with a good upbringing, only one thing can happen with those dogs and that is to be put to sleep.

I disagree with the "If a dog was used in fighting" comment. Dog aggressive (which is a desirable trait in fighting) doesn't translate into human aggressive. It's the human aggressive dogs that need to go. Whether that aggression comes from outright dominance, fear, whatever . . . . Fighting in the ring doesn't change the fact that that dog might be an excellent human companion. To cull a pit bull (or any breed, for that matter) simply because it's seen the ring, well, that's just not the right reason.

 

Other than that, I thought your post was right on.

 

-

Jim

[sutter2k]

^^

Right, there are different types of aggression.

In fact certain dogs with a high prey drive (birds/rabbits/porcupines), might be completly placid with humans/dogs.

You want a breed that is human aggressive? here.

 

http://molosserdogs.com/myfiles/video/NGCO_0002.wmv

 

100x what pit bulls are.

Now picture if that breed got popular.

[BoxerGT2.5]

I disagree with the "If a dog was used in fighting" comment. Dog aggressive (which is a desirable trait in fighting) doesn't translate into human aggressive. It's the human aggressive dogs that need to go. Whether that aggression comes from outright dominance, fear, whatever . . . . Fighting in the ring doesn't change the fact that that dog might be an excellent human companion. To cull a pit bull (or any breed, for that matter) simply because it's seen the ring, well, that's just not the right reason.

 

Other than that, I thought your post was right on.

 

-

Jim

 

 

 

Each dog should be tested for tempermant, but once that dog is bred to fight, it will fight at any chance it can get (unless it was a young pit or one used as bait).

 

Whether you agree or not, breeders would rather have those dogs that were used in "pit fighting" put down as to not pollute the breed further. Likewise, no humane society would place that very same dog in a house. Think about it, you have a dog that was abused, mistreated, and forced into fighting....by who?????...Human's. Pit fighters where trained from a very young age to fight. I understand that Pits want very much to please their owners, so they do what they think will please them. However to put that dog in a domesticated situation (walk on a leash around a community) and believe they will not look at another dog that may snarl at it as a challenger, is not wise. A dog that is known to attack other dogs is no safer than a dog that attacks humans. Naturally if your dog gets attacked, your going to want to step in and try and save your dog....see where I'm going.

[Penguin]

^^

Right, there are different types of aggression.

In fact certain dogs with a high prey drive (birds/rabbits/porcupines), might be completly placid with humans/dogs.

You want a breed that is human aggressive? here.

 

http://molosserdogs.com/myfiles/video/NGCO_0002.wmv

 

100x what pit bulls are.

Now picture if that breed got popular.

 

Those dogs are just vitamin deficient, vitamin Pb. I've got the cure, just need to figure out the right dose. Hmmm..... 168gr's or 240gr's.

[abacuz]

When the aggression button gets turned on in most pit bulls they won't stop. Let's face facts here, pit bulls are bred for outright no quit aggression the same way blood hounds are bred for their ability to scent. I saw a pointer come onto my property and point at my cat hidden in some bushes. I watched my cop neighbor's so called "lovable" pit bull attack and severly injure a dog being walked a mother and her two little kids. Nice,eh? "He was never aggressive!" claimed the cop. He's still got the effing dog and one more now! I'm seriously considering getting a hand gun to blow that effer's effing head off (the dog) for any excuse. If you keep a pit bull, you are playing a stupid game of russian roulette and not making any friends with your neighbors.

 

 

I would not be surpriced if you are a racist . I love your stereotipical behavior and reactions.

[sutter2k]

Each dog should be tested for tempermant, but once that dog is bred to fight, it will fight at any chance it can get (unless it was a young pit or one used as bait).

 

Whether you agree or not, breeders would rather have those dogs that were used in "pit fighting" put down as to not pollute the breed further. Likewise, no humane society would place that very same dog in a house. Think about it, you have a dog that was abused, mistreated, and forced into fighting....by who?????...Human's. Pit fighters where trained from a very young age to fight. I understand that Pits want very much to please their owners, so they do what they think will please them. However to put that dog in a domesticated situation (walk on a leash around a community) and believe they will not look at another dog that may snarl at it as a challenger, is not wise. A dog that is known to attack other dogs is no safer than a dog that attacks humans. Naturally if your dog gets attacked, your going to want to step in and try and save your dog....see where I'm going.

 

 

Here are some pits in a domestic situation.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmP8qX2YJhw&NR]YouTube - Pit Bull Day at the dog park[/ame]

 

another good vid.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJueekvhRDI&mode=related&search=]YouTube - The Great American Pit Bull Terrier[/ame]

Make one realize its really a people problem.

[sutter2k]

Those dogs are just vitamin deficient, vitamin Pb. I've got the cure, just need to figure out the right dose. Hmmm..... 168gr's or 240gr's.

 

Kind of like the middle east is yeast deficient. Give them some bread that is not flat and everyone will get along.

[LordJim]

Each dog should be tested for tempermant,

 

Agree. 100%.

 

but once that dog is bred to fight, it will fight at any chance it can get (unless it was a young pit or one used as bait).

Not quite true. Pit Bulls by their very nature tend to be dog aggressive. Not all are, but you shouldn't be surprised when one is, nor should you hold it against him. It's just a trait of the breed.

 

Whether you agree or not, breeders would rather have those dogs that were used in "pit fighting" put down as to not pollute the breed further.

I disagree. And I've spoke to a few responsible breeders who would disagree, as well. A Pit Bulls natural aggression towards other dogs is what gets him in the ring in the first place - they're natural dog fighters. You wouldn't put down a leopard for having spots, nor would you consider a leopard with spots to be polluting the breed.

 

Along the same lines . . . It's a Pit Bulls "gameness", or that never-quit attitude that makes him a champion in the ring. It's that same never-quit attitude that makes him a champion in working competitions.

 

Any animal that shows aggression towards humans should be put down. Remember, dog aggression != human aggression. Aggression directed at humans, though - that doesn't end well for the dog.

 

So you know, my 'responsible breeder' - he and his wife breed perhaps one litter every two or so years. They breed only when they've found a stud with traits that they find desirable and that will compliment their bitch. The puppies are spoken for at least 1 year ahead of time, if not longer. The point is that these folks are breeding for the betterment of the breed - not for a few hundred dollars a puppy.

 

 

Likewise, no humane society would place that very same dog in a house. Think about it, you have a dog that was abused, mistreated, and forced into fighting....by who?????...Human's.

Don't be so sure of that. One of the local SPCA offices just placed a pit bull that had been beaten, fought, starved and who knows what else with a local family. Last I checked, that dog was doing fine and well on his way to happier life. That's the most recent example that comes to mind, I can find plenty of others if necessary and even put you in touch with those who have lived it. I can also put you in touch with those who run rescues and have put down unstable pits.

 

 

Pit fighters where trained from a very young age to fight.

They were trained to fight other dogs, it's in their blood.

 

I understand that Pits want very much to please their owners, so they do what they think will please them. However to put that dog in a domesticated situation (walk on a leash around a community) and believe they will not look at another dog that may snarl at it as a challenger, is not wise.

Of course it's not! Believe me! I live this every day. Luckily for me, though, Zoe hasn't shown any interest in eating the neighborhood pets. Instead she's shown curiosity and patience. On the other hand, if she had shown interest in eating the neighborhood pets I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, after all, it's what she was bred to do.

 

A dog that is known to attack other dogs is no safer than a dog that attacks humans.

Again, this is where we disagree. Dog aggression != aggression towards humans.

 

Naturally if your dog gets attacked, your going to want to step in and try and save your dog....see where I'm going.

Of course. And again, I can put you in touch with people in two dog homes (where of course, at least one is a pit bull) who have broken up fights between their dogs and come out unscathed. A somewhat interesting sidenote: From what I understand, a human has a better chance of getting hurt when breaking up a fight between dogs that aren't pit bulls. Pits tend to latch on and hold, where as other breeds tend to do a lot of indiscriminate snapping.

 

-

Jim

[Penguin]

Kind of like the middle east is yeast deficient. Give them some bread that is not flat and everyone will get along.

 

I had the "pleasure" of spending some time in the middle east courtesy of the USMC. Those people don't need fluffy bread. They mostly need some vitamin Pb as well.

[SubiGT]

I like vitamin U235 for the middle east, personally. I hated being over there. The US, while not perfect by any means, at least got the separation of church and state part right.

[Penguin]

I like vitamin U235 for the middle east, personally. I hated being over there. The US, while not perfect by any means, at least got the separation of church and state part right.

 

At least you know your periodic table of the elements. I get strange looks when I tell people that Iraqis are suffering from lack of vitamins. They ask which vitamin I'm talking about and I tell them Pb. I just get blank looks, except for an old chemistry teacher I had in high school. He laughed his ass off, and then told me I forgot Cu too. He's right, you should account for the jacket material.

[Vimy101]

I like vitamin U235 for the middle east, personally. I hated being over there. The US, while not perfect by any means, at least got the separation of church and state part right.

 

bush represents a movement to trying to end that divide.

[CMyLGT]

bush represents a movement to trying to end that divide.

 

Yea via a large bomb and some "Pb" as Penguin likes to call it. Bush is a f'king moron.

[CMyLGT]

I had the "pleasure" of spending some time in the middle east courtesy of the USMC. Those people don't need fluffy bread. They mostly need some vitamin Pb as well.

 

Stereotypical Marine...stupid, racist, and stubborn. America's finest.

[Penguin]

Stereotypical Marine...stupid, racist, and stubborn. America's finest.

 

How am I a racist? Care to explain your accusation?