Porcupine 1, Pitbull 0

[LordJim]

Are you saying you love a breed infamous for its aggression but don't believe in breed traits?

 

What I'm saying, Vimy, is you obviously have failed to research the traits of the APBT (which, by the way, I've already posted here - it's apparent to me that you haven't gone back and reread my posts) and are basing your argument on nothing more than emotion. I've asked for data to support your side of the argument - so far you've provided none.

 

-

Jim

[Vimy101]

What I'm saying, Vimy, is you obviously have failed to research the traits of the APBT (which, by the way, I've already posted here - it's apparent to me that you haven't gone back and reread my posts) and are basing your argument on nothing more than emotion. I've asked for data to support your side of the argument - so far you've provided none.

 

-

Jim

 

1000s of year of selective breeding. I am a Darwinist BTW.

 

Was it one of your posts that said something to the effect that as soon as a pit bull puppy shows agression it is culled? Come on pal. I'm a smart guy.

 

That "savior" bullshit only did more damage to and confirmed impressions of pit bull owners.

 

Go to the pound and get a nice mutt if you don't believe in breed traits. Plenty of food loving pack animals there.

[speeddr7]

Bird dogs go crazy for birds. Water dogs love the water. German shepherds bred to be territortial. Pointers point. Pit bulls bred to fight.

 

So when a Lab goes after a bird its agressive. A Pit bull is a fighting dog, yes. Not to fight humans but other dogs. Human agressive dogs were never bred or supposed to be bred. Thats ghetto sh!t.

End this thread of total ignorance and so many people that know so much about a dog they probably never even saw.

I love the "I saw one turn on" BS, STFU!

 

Read real research and not tv or newspapers. So if we wont change your minds dont go back and write. Just be that rocket scientist you are and I wish I were as smart as you.

[CMyLGT]

All this stuff about their laudable loyalty is horse shit. They are dogs and dogs are pack animals that look to an alpha. There's no magic about it. No "Aw, isn't it sweet" BS. They do it to get food like all dogs. If a person isn't the alpha, the brutes can easily go ape shit. I've seen it. Pure attack.

 

You are obviously not a dog owner, and obviously know NOTHING about the nature of dogs. I have never met an animal as affectionate and loyal as a dog, and I think you are one of the least informed people on this forum if you think that dogs are solely motivated by food. Try learning through first hand experience, then try to argue with us once you know a little bit about the topic. Go to the local pound, and spend a little time with each of the dogs. See how many are actually hostile once you show some affection to them. Although food is a high priority in dogs' minds, nothing can come between a dog and a human that has shown him love and compassion. I'm sorry, but every post you have made thus far in this thread has been utterly shut down by Jim. Way to go Jim

[Vimy101]

Bird dogs go crazy for birds. Water dogs love the water. German shepherds bred to be territortial. Pointers point. Pit bulls bred to fight.

 

A pit bull is a fighting dog.

 

To wit: the opening pixors on this thread. Only a pitbull is capable of such mindless, inate, and senseless over-aggression.

 

Or maybe those pixors are the results of fight against the newly recognized porcupine dog breed that the pit bull was fighting or perhaps even a pixor of the new porcupine dog itself.

 

Mastiffs and dobermanns are bred to attack humans. Pit bulls are bred to attack anything.

[Vimy101]

You are obviously not a dog owner, and obviously know NOTHING about the nature of dogs. I have never met an animal as affectionate and loyal as a dog, and I think you are one of the least informed people on this forum if you think that dogs are solely motivated by food. Try learning through first hand experience, then try to argue with us once you know a little bit about the topic. Go to the local pound, and spend a little time with each of the dogs. See how many are actually hostile once you show some affection to them. Although food is a high priority in dogs' minds, nothing can come between a dog and a human that has shown him love and compassion. I'm sorry, but every post you have made thus far in this thread has been utterly shut down by Jim. Way to go Jim

 

Dogs love food above all else. Ever watch one eat? Ever seen one roll in shit? The sooner you figure out what that means out the sooner you'll be able to train your mutt to fetch the paper.

 

Never met a dog that didn't love anyone who gave it food.

[CMyLGT]

Actually I watch two dogs eat breakfast and dinner every day, and after breakfast one goes and gets the paper as soon as i open the front door. Oh and guess what, I don't have to give it any food to get the paper either...or to go in the kennel, jump in the car, sit, speak, go to bed, fetch birds i shoot, pretty much anything you can train a dog to do. I never use treats, my dogs will do anything i ask them to on command. You have never met a dog that didn't love food, I bet you also have never met a dog that loves you. Once you experience this, if thats possible, come talk to us again about what dogs really want.

[SubiGT]

Never met a dog that didn't love anyone who gave it food.

I am qualified to be a dog by that standard:rolleyes:

[Vimy101]

I am qualified to be a dog by that standard:rolleyes:

 

No doubt that is true.

 

The word "dog" has many connotations all of which are not flattering.

[Vimy101]

Actually I watch two dogs eat breakfast and dinner every day, and after breakfast one goes and gets the paper as soon as i open the front door. Oh and guess what, I don't have to give it any food to get the paper either...or to go in the kennel, jump in the car, sit, speak, go to bed, fetch birds i shoot, pretty much anything you can train a dog to do. I never use treats, my dogs will do anything i ask them to on command. You have never met a dog that didn't love food, I bet you also have never met a dog that loves you. Once you experience this, if thats possible, come talk to us again about what dogs really want.

 

Like I say, if I have food, any dog will love love me. You, too. Even Hogmeat.

[CMyLGT]

So that must mean dogs are mean, right? (referring to post #109)

[CMyLGT]

Any dog will love the food you give it, and forget you ten minutes later. Any dog will love me regardless of whether i have food or not

[sutter2k]

1000s of year of selective breeding. I am a Darwinist BTW.

 

Was it one of your posts that said something to the effect that as soon as a pit bull puppy shows agression it is culled? Come on pal. I'm a smart guy.

 

That "savior" bullshit only did more damage to and confirmed impressions of pit bull owners.

 

Go to the pound and get a nice mutt if you don't believe in breed traits. Plenty of food loving pack animals there.

 

Vimmy are you really that ignorant?

 

The reference to dogs that bit humans were culled is true.

re: ". Dogs that bit the referee were culled." found here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull and many other place. It was a rule that handlers must be able break up the dogs with being bitten.

 

You claim your Darwinist. Yet you also claim the apbt has gone through 1000's or years of selective breeding. The theory of natural selection has hasn't even been around 150 years. In addition the recognized apbt has only been around since the late 1800's

 

Do you really think people knew exactly what they were doing for those 1000's for years? All sorts of stuff was mixed in. A lot of it probably didn't help their cause. Dog really didn't start getting nurtured until the last century. There were no leash laws. Wolfs have even been mixed back in to certain breeding stock(German Shepherd's to help weed out genetic health problems). Dog really aren't that different from one another.

 

While there is some specialization, they are still dogs. No one has been able to make them fly yet. And guess what, they still feel pain. Any they don't just "turn" on owners(A an individual has a history of aggression).

 

Good rescues actually make dogs go through temperament tests before the dogs are allowed to be adopted.

So just because a dog a brindle or has a square head you are going to label it vicious? Yet it might actually have a heinz 57 genetic make-up.

 

I have a dog that you would probably label a pit bull and stand on your soap box about. She appears physically capable. However, she is extremely non confrontational. However, if there is a fight brewing in a dog park. She removes herself from the situation and stands by my side. In fact some times I wish she was a tad more assertive. I got her from a rescue where she was being home fostered by a family with young children. I don't know much about her original owner. I probed once and the lady at the rescue seemed to be disgusted with the guy but wouldn't go into further detail. Perhaps he was looking for a tougher dog that she was meant to be.

[Vimy101]

Any dog will love the food you give it, and forget you ten minutes later. Any dog will love me regardless of whether i have food or not

 

Yeah maybe but not as much as me with the box of dog biscuits.

 

We're talking dogs here not girl friends.

 

OK. Bad example.

[sutter2k]

Dogs love food above all else. Ever watch one eat? Ever seen one roll in shit? The sooner you figure out what that means out the sooner you'll be able to train your mutt to fetch the paper.

 

Never met a dog that didn't love anyone who gave it food.

 

True in many cases, but not all. PVR the myth busters this week(might be a repeat, the one on guard dogs).

 

No all dogs are easily corruptible. My German Shepherd wouldn't eat anything if I was not around. Never took handouts at the pet store.

Now my current dog is a different story.

[Vimy101]

Vimmy are you really that ignorant?

 

The reference to dogs that bit humans were culled is true.

re: ". Dogs that bit the referee were culled." found here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull and many other place. It was a rule that handlers must be able break up the dogs with being bitten.

 

You claim your Darwinist. Yet you also claim the apbt has gone through 1000's or years of selective breeding. The theory of natural selection has hasn't even been around 150 years. In addition the recognized apbt has only been around since the late 1800's

 

Do you really think people knew exactly what they were doing for those 1000's for years? All sorts of stuff was mixed in. A lot of it probably didn't help their cause. Dog really didn't start getting nurtured until the last century. There were no leash laws. Wolfs have even been mixed back in to certain breeding stock(German Shepherd's to help weed out genetic health problems). Dog really aren't that different from one another.

 

While there is some specialization, they are still dogs. No one has been able to make them fly yet. And guess what, they still feel pain. Any they don't just "turn" on owners(A an individual has a history of aggression).

 

Good rescues actually make dogs go through temperament tests before the dogs are allowed to be adopted.

So just because a dog a brindle or has a square head you are going to label it vicious? Yet it might actually have a heinz 57 genetic make-up.

 

I have a dog that you would probably label a pit bull and stand on your soap box about. She appears physically capable. However, she is extremely non confrontational. However, if there is a fight brewing in a dog park. She removes herself from the situation and stands by my side. In fact some times I wish she was a tad more assertive. I got her from a rescue where she was being home fostered by a family with young children. I don't know much about her original owner. I probed once and the lady at the rescue seemed to be disgusted with the guy but wouldn't go into further detail. Perhaps he was looking for a tougher dog that she was meant to be.

 

Selective breeding works. Witness the opening pixors on this thread. An animal bred for unstoppable aggression that has, in effect, killed itself thanks to its selectively bred traits. Holsteins deliver lots of milk. Hogs grow to a 1000 lbs.

 

You could do a DNA test on your dog. The technology is available.

[LordJim]

Pit bulls are bred to attack anything.

 

And this is where your argument falls flat on its face. How many times do you need to hear (see) it? Who need to tell you otherwise for you to believe it? Is there room in your head to accept that you might be wrong?

 

-

Jim

[Vimy101]

^ I've seen pitbulls attack humans. I've seen them attack dogs. I've seen them attack cats (at least they're normal in that reagard but they do kill them instantly). I've seen them attack bulls and get killed because they're so stupidly aggressive now that they don't have the sense to know what they can't take on i.e. the opening pixors on this thread. I've read stories of them attacking anything and everything.

 

Pit bulls are bred to be aggressive towards anything.

 

You've noticed of course that I haven't resorted to posting anything from anti-pit bull sites.

 

Dauxhunds (sp?) love to dig after those imagined badgers.

[BoxerGT2.5]

Simply put, don't blame the dog, blame the owner. You can make any dog aggressive/ mean or sweet/loving, ect. Any responsible pet owner is going to research the dog they're gonna think about purchasing. It's like someone getting a Great Dane as a pup and then saying WTF "I didn't know it was going to get this big" at around 8mos when the thing is 110lbs. I don't care if it's a Amstaff or a Husky, it all boils down to the owner and his/her willingness to socialize/train that dog as a puppy. Keep a dog chained to a tree all day, and then people are amazed if he/she does some things that are unacceptable. I have been bit by 3 dogs in my life, none have been "Pit Bulls", and I've been around alot of them. Ask a Vet what dog they have a tendency to really keep a close eye on while they are examining them, I doubt they'll say "Pit". 3-4 vets I've asked have all said German Sheppard and 2-4 said Chihuahua. Apparently those two really don't give any warning, they just snap and strike. I can vouch for the Chihuahua.

[Vimy101]

^ My ex-girl friend (from years ago) never trained her daxhund to dig for imaginary badgers but it dug away nonetheless.

[pacbreak gt]

This is a highly entertaining thread. There have been some good points made by both sides regarding the pitbull ("...some, not so good").

Anyone close to my age (53) might remember when the Doberman was the nightmare dog in the media. There are alot more pits around now than there were Dobies back then, which in part may result in more reports of attacks.

Two brief points:

Last week I had to help break up a dog fight at the beach. A young Rottwieller was howling in pain while a "fully locked-on" Cairn Terrier was doing the head shake on it's ear-no joke. A terrier is a terrier.

 

Six weeks ago we had to put down our 7 year old Pitbull, Grit. My son brought him back from college, where he adopted him from a rescue agency. I was not keen on the idea. Naturally, the son moved out but Gritty stayed with us. The dog, a neutered male, was far less aggressive and much more affectionate than my old Welsh Terrier. I guess dogs within a breed, like people, have different temperments.

[Vimy101]

^ Doberman's were and are notorious but they don't do the same damage as pit bulls and weren't bred to inflict total carnage on a preceived adversary. They were bred to subdue. Pit bulls were/are bred to kill.

[BoxerGT2.5]

^ My ex-girl friend (from years ago) never trained her daxhund to dig for imaginary badgers but it dug away nonetheless.

 

 

 

Training extends to not only teaching the dog what you want him/her to do, but also what you don't want him to do. Some dogs have a strong digging drive, some a strong drive to jump, some have a strong prey drive. All of these traits can be trained on in a positive fashion to reduce their tendencies to where it never becomes a problem.

[Penguin]

I don't pretend to know anything about pit bulls, I have not been around enough of them to label them all as bad or good. I can count on two hands all the times I have been around them, only once was one aggressive. That was the last mistake he ever made. The others seemed quite well adjusted to people, and I had no problems with them. One female that I recall was very affectionate, and the only bad thing about her was her breath.

 

I have had a chocolate lab/blue heeler mix chase me on a bike before and stay aggressive even after I stopped moving. Again last mistake for that dog. Are labs or blue heelers known for vicious behavior? No. The problem with all those dogs is lack of proper socialization and discipline.

 

My wife's grandmother, a frail woman in her 80's, is on her 5th Rottweiler a breed that has a bad reputation for being aggressive. The dog is one of the best I have ever been around, very gentle, and obeys commands immediately. Her next dog will be a lap dog, not because she considers Rottweilers to be too dangerous, but she concedes she can't exercise the dogs like they need to be to keep fit.

 

That does not mean that all dogs will be good even given a good loving home. They can still turn bad. A great deal of this does have to do with breeding, and responsible breeding. Breeding a dog that cowers from people and has a history of fear aggression is something to be avoided, just as breeding a dog with a history of active aggressive behavior should be avoided. Unfortunately f***-stick ghetto/red neck/general scum bag breeders will breed dogs that display the attributes they find most desirable, like aggressive behavior. This gives the breed, any breed, a bad name. Take a pair of nice even tempered pit bulls and breed them, and chances are good that if given a good home the pups will grow up to be nice even tempered pit bulls. Take a pair of really aggressive pit bulls and breed them, and the chances are good that if given a good home the pups could be fine but they probably stand a greater chance of being aggressive than pups coming from even tempered breeding stock. That goes for any breed of dog.

[sutter2k]

Looking around for information, I found this clip.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qg77vR6hLM]YouTube - Porter 2004[/ame]

 

very impressive control

dog in many situations, even with multiple decoys simultaneously