RangerMan Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hey everyone, What can y'all tell me about the Fiat Spider (124) and Alfa-romeo Spider. I'm thinking about getting one as a fun car. Looking at the fuel injected 2.0L models (1980 and 1984). Any experiences with them? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I rebuilt a Fiat X/1-9 of a slightly earlier vintage (Fiats are always being rebuilt, wich should tell you something ) Neat designs built out of absolute crap. If you like to work on cars they can be fun although some parts are very hard to find and you have to improvise. Also, any modern car will outperorm them in every imaginable way. I'd get a Miata. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMan Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 I do like to work on cars. I understand that owning one makes you a better mechanic... Performance not so much an issue. I'm looking for something old to work on so I haven't really looked into a Miata. What about the MG Midgets? The American pony and muscle car prices are being driven through the roof :-( So we're looking at more of a fun angle and if we want some real power will buy something modern for all the performance benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 An MG? You must be a glutton for punishment Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y279/SteveISU/motivatoraf8b461f71f77ba634bf68b22d.jpg OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb-z Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I have owned four Alfas and liked them. They are moderately high maintainence. If you use a mechanic, you must always use the ones in the Alfa club book. Keep it in your glove compartment. I could tell you hair raising stories about dealers and "import shops". Example, tell the mechanic the car needs a new drive shaft universal (squeaky, dry and tight). He argues he feels no play (duh) and needs to take apart the differential ($700) to start. Call real Alfa mechanic half way across the country. He says the Spider diff is the same as Alfa Montreal with V8 and has never been known to fail. New universal fixes problem. Where would I have been if I let the mechanic open up the differential? Bet he would have found a "problem". The Spider is a tough car, but a very dated design. The body is made out of about a million pieces of metal. The engines are tough but basically need a top end rebuild after 120K. Parts are easy from specialty importers. For practical fun, my Miata is much better and such a pleasure to work on. Give up on the headaches and buy a Miata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb-z Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 A bit more on the Spider. The Spica mechanical fuel injection from the early 1980s is almost always screwed up unless it has been competently rebuilt. These is one guy who figured these things out. If he has worked on it, it is fine. If not, you almost certainly need to have this service done. http://www.wesingram.com/hp.htm $800 plus parts! The Bosch electronic units seem fine but provide less power. Weber conversions are often not such a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unobtainium Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I've owned a 2L Alfetta and an 1800cc Lancia Beta, which has Fiat running gear but a much better body. Alfas are tough, and joeb-z is right about the Spica injection. It is likely to have been fiddled with until it works badly. The way you go about fixing it is to get the injection manual, and systematically set the linkage the way the manual says. If it still doesn't work after that, then the issues are more severe. I have fixed five or six Spica injections that were running badly, through nothing more than doing what the relevant injection manual says (they are supplied by series and California/49-state versions). My experience with Spica-injected cars says you must use Lodge 2HL plugs in them and nothing else. I understand these plugs are once again in production but they may be difficult to find. When you look at a Spica-injected car, check the crankcase carefully for the smell of fuel. If you smell it, that often means the piston seals in the FI pump are shot, and this is one rebuild you absolutely cannot do yourself. The Spica pump is modified from a diesel injection pump and the clearances inside are tight beyond belief. There is a consistent failure mode with 2L Alfa head gaskets: if there is oil drooling down the rear left-hand side of the block, the head gasket is toast. Any car you find with significant mileage on it will probably have had the later HG installed that has a roll pin and O-rings to prevent this failure. The Fiat 1800cc and 2L engines are pretty similar. They are interference engines. Watch the timing belts. The engines are surprisingly complicated. The cams run in cam boxes that are separable from the heads, so there's one more joint than you expect for each cam. Trouble with transmissions is rare. Make sure you use Shell Dentax in an Alfa Spyder transmission. If you get grinding that feels like weak synchros, and you can't verify that it was Dentax and only Dentax in the transmission, change the lubricant three times at 500 mile intervals and that will clear up half the cases. Neither car has a very good electrical system, and there isn't much you can do to salvage them. My Alfetta had the old exposed fuses and simply changing those to sealed fuses got rid of some problems, but expect switches to have the "dim, flicker and off" positions. My car also used to eat aftermarket voltage regulators. The only kind that worked reliably for me was the OEM Marelli regulator. The cars' bodies are made of dehydrated rust. Everywhere. Try to get your car from someplace like New Mexico or southern California. Don't get them wet, and especially don't drive them where there is salt on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 ^^^^^ I can't imagine why they aren't more popular..... "Don't get them wet" Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMan Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hey guys, thanks for the information. Trying to make an informed decision. The Miata appears to be the more intelligent decision for sure, but the Alfa's sound very intersting and would make for a real involved project and for a fun car. The Miata would be more fun and less project (well not including mods but no real project to just get it "fixed up"). I am a glutton for punishment... I would go with a classic Mustang but the prices just keep going up on them for what people want for an unrestored POS. Some are only good for resto-modding. At some point you get to where a new Shelby GT500 is a financially better option than some never ending custom project. So I am looking for something equally challenging but less expesnive. It sounds like a whole Fiat or Alfa project could be done for about the same $$$ as just buying the foundation for a Mustang project (the cheapest biggest POS Mustang I have looked at was $3500 and needed at least $10k just to make it decent...and it was bought the same day I passed on it and only a week since the ad was first in the paper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMan Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 rao...I get the feeling you are trying to tell me something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMan Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 the guys at work said I was crazy and either get a Miata for fun (though it wouldn't be much of a project since there isn't much to do to it) or just keep looking. He also suggested putting an LS1 + T56 into our existing 2002 Mustang V6. That would be pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unobtainium Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 RangerMan, Italian cars were never a picnic to take care of, at least IMO. They're fun, and they're super-competent on the road, but you have to keep after them. I'd be a little concerned about parts these days for the Fiat, but Alfa parts seem to be reasonably available. As long as you don't try to make one your daily driver you'll probably enjoy either one quite a bit. If you can stand the looks of the sedans, you'll often find them to have been treated better than the open cars. "Real Alfisti drive sedans." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradiso Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I'm a double glutton for punishment. Red is a 92 the white is a 71 with an engine swap. I won't argue that a miata is the logical choice but since when is it about logic? There are few sounds the equal of an Italian engine revving at 6K. Miatas are everywhere, Alfas not so much. I like driving a car that most don't recognize and all turn to look at as I go by. It makes me feel like I have a big dick (wait, did I say that out loud?) Alfas are lovely machines, they have to be paid attention to but are not nearly as unreliable as they are made out to be. I like crawling underneath them so I have no problem with doing regular maintenance and the occasional (or more often) repair. For me, its all worth it. Alfa Romeo - Cuore Sportivo - Do some research (www.alfabb.com), find a 90s spider that's been well taken care of, you'll never regret it. My .02 - FWIW http://www.jparadiso.com/images/thegirls2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMan Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Love the Red and Tan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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