Subaru Legacy's dirty little drivetrain secret???

[NSFW]

why would you start @ 3k on a hill?

typically mine wont stink

unless im bored and ripping up and down my lot

 

Are you saying that starting at 3k really IS asking too much? Or would you expect that to cause stink with any factory clutch? Perhaps my last car just spoiled me.

[Fat Charlie]

If I get launch control before I get a new clutch (which could happen, as the opensource guys are already testing it), I'll be setting the launch rev limit to 2000, or maybe 2500. Anything higher would probably stink pretty consistently.

 

Is starting at 3k really too much to ask, on a hill and with a couple passengers? For TDC and Fat Charlie - would your clutch stink if you did that?

 

My poor clutch has to reconcile an engine spinning at thousands of RPM with wheels turning at zero RPM. It has to do this through the resistance of an AWD drivetrain. why on Earth would you want to make it deal with thousands more RPM than it has to? What's this obsession with revs, anyway? You do seem to need launch control.

 

Yes, I'll bet my clutch would smell after an uphill start with extra revs while loaded.

 

Are you saying that starting at 3k really IS asking too much? Or would you expect that to cause stink with any factory clutch? Perhaps my last car just spoiled me.

If your last car was an AWD of the same weight, power and gearing, then I'd agree that it spoiled you. If it was different, then you've got to operate it... differently.

[coolbluelb]

how do u like the spec clutch so far? review?

 

Still breaking it in, but here are my initial thoughts... not much has changed.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=947824&postcount=92

[coolbluelb]

what is your build date? my original pressure plate was crap.. replaced under warranty like a few others..

 

11/04

 

No issue with the PP upon disassembly of the clutch. Disk had material left after 13k miles. Flywheel had more hotspots than not.

[vet]

My main issue is more with the 'drive by wire' throttle. It's impossible to give it a little gas to get the revs up slightly over idle as I'm letting the clutch out. I get no revs over idle or I get at least 2k. Launching with much more than 2k and I get the stink.

[coolbluelb]

This is very interesting because someone else (mechanic) had mentioned the same thing to my about my clutch. I have had clutch problems that were mentioned on other posts. However, I think this is related to the topic/post.

 

My original clutch went after 254 miles (day after purchase) after all highway driving. SOA replaced under warranty. The second time the clutch went was after 5500 miles (6 months) which SOA did not replace under warranty. BTW I do not launch or race/autocross. Strickly, 90% highway driving on the weekends. I rarely get any clutch smell after reading the posts on how to properly engage and shift this car.

Long story short (FYI), I just got a letter from my lawyer from SOA stating they would give me $1,000.00 out of the $1,500.00 I paid to have the clutch/componts replaced w/labor at the Freehold Subaru. Basically, SOA claims there were not any mechnical problems that would cause this other than neglect or abuse. SOA is giving me $1000.00 as a gesture of "good will." They are saying "You must have abused the clutch after 254 miles on the highway."

Also, I didn't get any slippage the 1st or 2nd time a the clutch went out. The clutch pedal got stuck on the floor between shifts both times. However, the 1st time the car was not drivable (shifter would not engage).

 

I feel that regardless of how careful I drive this stock clutch will probably go because something is causing the clutch to burn up prematurely.

 

Sorry for going on but I saw this post as I was opening up my mail and I thought it was related.

 

I would guess that if your throwout bearing was not allowing complete engagement/disengagement of the clutch, then I can see where highway driving could result in radically increased wear. Was the throwout bearing replaced either time you had the clutch worked on? If so, do you have the original? It might prove interesting to compare it to a newer one.

[Guest]

There really is no secret.

 

Stock Subaru trans can barely handle stock torque loads when driven aggressively.

In order to rdeuce the warranty claims on transmission failures, they use a "soft" clutch.

SOA would rather have you pay for a worn clutch then them pay for a failed transmission.

 

Are you specifically refering to LGT 5MT box? I read ours is "reinforced" (whatever that means) vs. WRX's box, which was breaking easily.

[Fat Charlie]

Wow, that's a harsh throttle problem. I haven't heard of that one before. How long has it been like that? Have you had someone look at it?

[Deer Killer]

11/04

 

No issue with the PP upon disassembly of the clutch. Disk had material left after 13k miles. Flywheel had more hotspots than not.

By crap I mean weak, nothing physically broken. Should appear normal unless you test the clamping force.

[NSFW]

What's this obsession with revs, anyway? You do seem to need launch control.

 

Just trying to clarify my point using numbers. But when it's available, I'll get it, just to play with it, because I'm like that.

 

Yes, I'll bet my clutch would smell after an uphill start with extra revs while loaded.

 

You seem to find that acceptable, I don't.

 

If your last car was an AWD of the same weight, power and gearing, then I'd agree that it spoiled you. If it was different, then you've got to operate it... differently.

 

AWD, not as powerful, but also lighter - I did the math a while back and it's about 20% less power/weight. But the clutch didn't stink 20% less, it stuck 100% less. Like, never.

 

I've been wondering lately if Subaru changed clutches early in the lifetime of the BL/BP GT, or there are just a lot of people here who think clutch stink under normal operation is, well, normal, or if I (and obviously a few others) just got a lame clutch.

 

Again just for clarity, I don't have problems with slipping under normal use, just with stinking.

[Fat Charlie]

I talked to my local Subaru parts guy a couple of weeks ago about part number changes on the clutch. He says it's gone through a lot of part number changes, but he says it looks like they're in the process of changing vendors, not constantly redesigning the part. The general dissatisfaction with the clutch seems widespread enough here that I don't think you got one from a bad batch or anything.

 

Sorry for taking your rev numbers too seriously, I see what you're saying. If you've got a significant increase in power to weight, you should be able to get the same kind of start with a corresponding decrease in revs on take-off. Keeping the revs you were used to will put more of a strain on the clutch. Enough to get into the smell range.

 

Of all the not so powerful MTs I've driven, I smelled clutch in only one. When I was in high school I took my dad's car out and tried to see what was the highest gear it would start in. Fourth was just a little too tall to get it rolling. The LGT clutch is simply the LGT clutch. It's a good place to upgrade if that's your thing. You don't have to, though. It doesn't cramp my style at all- I only smell it when I make a mistake or have an annoying time parking.

 

They made the clutch the way it is on purpose. They knew that they were selling it to a hard driving, high modding crowd and they had to protect themselves. Power mods and racing starts are rough on clutches and they designed one to show it. Normal driving, however hard, doesn't really affect the clutch.

[Deer Killer]

I doubt they would let nauseating if not toxic fumes into the cabin on purpose. That's more than one design flaw combined. I can tell _why_ it gets sucked into the cabin, and that just isn't right in itself. Could probably be fixed with some foam tape from home depot..

[ilh]

My main issue is more with the 'drive by wire' throttle. It's impossible to give it a little gas to get the revs up slightly over idle as I'm letting the clutch out. I get no revs over idle or I get at least 2k. Launching with much more than 2k and I get the stink.

Then your throttle plate isn't working properly. Mine was that way and after being replaced under warranty (was occasionally causing stalling in cold weather while coasting to a stop) I have no trouble at all modulating a 1000rpm start from stop. Before the replacement, it was very hard to modulate the throttle.

[Deer Killer]

Uhh, no, that's the defective pressure plate.... Lots of people have it.

[PGT]

11/04

 

No issue with the PP upon disassembly of the clutch. Disk had material left after 13k miles. Flywheel had more hotspots than not.

 

mine was 9/04 and same issue on the flywheel. It was swapped under warranty at 24k miles along with the clutch. Never a single 'launch', powershift (shifting no lifting), or abuse. The SOA rep drove me car with me and we talked about the clutch issues extensively. It seems some have it and others don't.

 

We had a WRX before, which needed more throttle to get under way (less torque from the 2.0L), and it never stunk, slipped, or had issues in 30k miles (granted it was stock, vs Stg II on my car).

[quantum]

My clutch is holding ok, but it should be with only 19k on the car. I do have the rev issue though; every time I just touch the throttle from idle the revs go to 2k. Also I've noticed on really cold days sometimes when I start the car I hear a weird WHRRRRRR sound from the trans when it's warming up in neutral (goes away when I push the clutch in); does anyone else have a that sound?

[one69chev]

is it possible that driver input has a lot to do with premature clutch wear; most OEM's consider the disc a wear item after 12k miles...

 

or did SOA just cheap out on the disc material knowing that a car capable of the hp the lgt is would annhilate clutch facing?

[bskey]

My clutch is holding ok, but it should be with only 19k on the car. I do have the rev issue though; every time I just touch the throttle from idle the revs go to 2k. Also I've noticed on really cold days sometimes when I start the car I hear a weird WHRRRRRR sound from the trans when it's warming up in neutral (goes away when I push the clutch in); does anyone else have a that sound?

 

I had the whirring too, and the mechanic at SOA told me it has to do with the tranny fluid and the cold temp. He said there was nothing we could do about it because to change the fluid to one that didnt whirr would become a problem in warm weather, so I'd have to change it every season. I disagree and on my next tranny flush I'll be going in another direction, as determined by some other threads here. Other members are mixing tranny fluids to get a good, year round mix. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28866

 

I have an ACT flywheel w/ RPS clutch pack and that came with a greddy organic disk, which went out in less than 3k miles, but I think that was because the pressure plate was too hard for the disk. RPS has modified a new disk for me that should hold up to the power, but I have yet to install it. due to non stop snow storms in Denver. It seems that the Leggy clutch can be considered a weak link, but I'd rather that than my tranny!

[graff48]

My main issue is more with the 'drive by wire' throttle. It's impossible to give it a little gas to get the revs up slightly over idle as I'm letting the clutch out. I get no revs over idle or I get at least 2k. Launching with much more than 2k and I get the stink.

 

+1

[Matthew973]

Can anyone in this thread answer this. I have a 2008 Legacy B$ Sport 4AT Tirptronic with the EJ20 engine(JDM spec) non-turbo. the reverse gear is lazy on any incline as well as there is a whirring sound when engaged in drive or reverse. The sound is absent in neutral or park. move off is at times.

 

Last year at 60,000km my mechanic changed the fluid 7qrts with Amsoil ATF and washed the internal filter. There were some metal shavings.The car is now at 81,00okm and the sound and reverse gear issues are prevalent.

 

Can anyone shed light on this as to what might cause the problem?