AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 the L98 and LS2 are both 6 liters .. I have yet to see an article that states whether or not the V8 offered in the US will be the L98 or the LS2. I really don't think GM would waste the time and money necessary to replace the L98 that comes in the new Commodore SS with a detuned LS2; if they were gonna swap the LS2 into the US version, I would imagine they would leave it in tact. And no, GM doesn't need to die Competition in the marketplace is a good thing for consumers in the end. Hell, if they pull this car off and get it over here in tact and priced in the "mid 20's" that Bob Lutz said they were shooting for, I'm seriously gonna have to consider trading up in the near future. well if GM dies that just less crappy GM cars on the road. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 well if GM dies that just less crappy GM cars on the road. Do you mean less crappy GM cars on the road that will strait up rape your LGT. By the way GM quality control is pretty good these days, a good deal better than I have experienced with my Subaru. This is backed up by JD Power as well, GM makes a mechanically very reliable vehicle. http://www.jdpower.com/global/press-releases/pressrelease3.asp?ID=2006082 Now we will all get to experience our doors being sucked off, by a GM four door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Do you mean less crappy GM cars on the road that will strait up rape your LGT. By the way GM quality control is pretty good these days, a good deal better than I have experienced with my Subaru. This is backed up by JD Power as well, GM makes a mechanically very reliable vehicle. http://www.jdpower.com/global/press-releases/pressrelease3.asp?ID=2006082 Now we will all get to experience our doors being sucked off, by a GM four door. yes, because they still use technology that was innovative in the 80's ... Yes their interiors have come along way in the past 5 years (most in part because of holden and opel in my opinion) but i still don't think GM is really out of the water just yet. I have been in a lot of their so called "newer" vehicles; they rattle worst than my car, they still drive like a GM (overly light steering), they still sound like a GM (eeehhh), and they are still when it comes right down to it, an ugly pig with a beauty mask. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukindada Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 the L98 and LS2 are both 6 liters .. I have yet to see an article that states whether or not the V8 offered in the US will be the L98 or the LS2. I really don't think GM would waste the time and money necessary to replace the L98 that comes in the new Commodore SS with a detuned LS2; if they were gonna swap the LS2 into the US version, I would imagine they would leave it in tact. And no, GM doesn't need to die Competition in the marketplace is a good thing for consumers in the end. Hell, if they pull this car off and get it over here in tact and priced in the "mid 20's" that Bob Lutz said they were shooting for, I'm seriously gonna have to consider trading up in the near future. The 3.6 version will be priced in the mid 20's, I'm sure the "SS" versions will be priced in the mid-high 30's same as the current Grand prix GXP is priced. I agree that GM does not need to die but please do not water these platforms down. Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 yes, because they still use technology that was innovative in the 80's ... Yes their interiors have come along way in the past 5 years (most in part because of holden and opel in my opinion) but i still don't think GM is really out of the water just yet. I have been in a lot of their so called "newer" vehicles; they rattle worst than my car, they still drive like a GM (overly light steering), they still sound like a GM (eeehhh), and they are still when it comes right down to it, an ugly pig with a beauty mask. What technology does Subaru currently use that is innovative and new? As far as interior rattles are concerned you need to drive my car down the road for a couple of miles, I have never owned anything that rattled so much. As far as the upcoming GM cars, that if I am not mistaken are the main subject of this thread, we will have to wait and see what kind of dynamics they have. As far as sound goes, I don't know what you are talking about; the GM small block V8 makes great sounds. Given a choice I would rather have an LS2 in my Legacy GT, than what is in it now. Too bad it won't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I am going to take a wait and see approach to GM for at least 5-10 more years. I just got a Pontiac Grand Prix for rental while my Wagon gets fixed and man what an awful car. In all seriousness anything would be considered an improvement over this. I will give them this though it doesn't rattle one bit lol At least GM is in a better position than Chrysler and Ford who still have to "Get it". Those idiots just released the 2008 Dodge Avenger with rear drum brakes standard. I almost fell off my chair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MannyLegacy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I am going to take a wait and see approach to GM for at least 5-10 more years. I just got a Pontiac Grand Prix for rental while my Wagon gets fixed and man what an awful car. In all seriousness anything would be considered an improvement over this. I will give them this though it doesn't rattle one bit lol Yeah, when My sisters car was in the shop they gave her a Pontiac Vibe The worst Car EVER!! P O S!! :munch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 What technology does Subaru currently use that is innovative and new? As far as interior rattles are concerned you need to drive my car down the road for a couple of miles, I have never owned anything that rattled so much. As far as the upcoming GM cars, that if I am not mistaken are the main subject of this thread, we will have to wait and see what kind of dynamics they have. As far as sound goes, I don't know what you are talking about; the GM small block V8 makes great sounds. Given a choice I would rather have an LS2 in my Legacy GT, than what is in it now. Too bad it won't fit. So they make a great engine lol ... I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 So they make a great engine lol ... Alright, but what about the rest of my question? What technology is Subaru using in the LGT that is new or innovative? I can't think of any, but maybe you can. By the way if the Legacy GT had an anemic little turd under the hood would you have considered it? Probably not. Making a great engine is one of the most important things an automaker can endeavor to do. It is the heart of the car, and for many buyers the primary reason they consider a certian vehicle. The current generation small block has several advantages: 1.) It is very compact for it's displacement 2.) Relatively light in weight. 3.) It is damn near bullet proof and has a proven track record of reliablity and durability. 4.) The engine makes excellent power, both in peak horsepower but also torque. Moreover the power band is extremely flexible. 5.) The current small block manages to get better fuel economy than the motor in our cars. 28 MPG is nothing to yawn at, that is V6 territory and is better than our cars. You can also run 87 octane without fear of damage or adverse affects. 6.) Oh yeah they sound great too. 7.) There are plenty of useful mods for this engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Yeah, when My sisters car was in the shop they gave her a Pontiac Vibe The worst Car EVER!! P O S!! The same can be said about the Toyota Matrix, same car. Very very very buzy at highway speeds. No power whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Alright, but what about the rest of my question? What technology is Subaru using in the LGT that is new or innovative? I can't think of any, but maybe you can. By the way if the Legacy GT had an anemic little turd under the hood would you have considered it? Probably not. Making a great engine is one of the most important things an automaker can endeavor to do. It is the heart of the car, and for many buyers the primary reason they consider a certian vehicle. The current generation small block has several advantages: 1.) It is very compact for it's displacement 2.) Relatively light in weight. 3.) It is damn near bullet proof and has a proven track record of reliablity and durability. 4.) The engine makes excellent power, both in peak horsepower but also torque. Moreover the power band is extremely flexible. 5.) The current small block manages to get better fuel economy than the motor in our cars. 28 MPG is nothing to yawn at, that is V6 territory and is better than our cars. You can also run 87 octane without fear of damage or adverse affects. 6.) Oh yeah they sound great too. 7.) There are plenty of useful mods for this engine. With AWD i probably would have gotten the LGT anyway because it handles so great. If i would change anything it would be transmission. Solid rear axles, push rods (come on?), uninspiring driving. I'm not talking about the corvette here, im talking about the gm cars normal people drive. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 With AWD i probably would have gotten the LGT anyway because it handles so great. If i would change anything it would be transmission. Solid rear axles, push rods (come on?), uninspiring driving. I'm not talking about the corvette here, im talking about the gm cars normal people drive. So you should have bought a 2.5i and done a few upgrades to the suspension since you don't care about power. By the way, the new cars under discussion here are not going to have solid rear axles, and if based on the Holden products should be pretty good to drive. As far as the push rods comment goes, who the hell cares if the engines are as refined and powerful as they are. Push rods save space, push rods help save weight, push rods help keep costs down. See the post you were just quoting, the LS2 uses push rods. It makes better power, and uses less fuel than the 2.5L in our car. So either the 6.0L LS2 is a really good motor, or the 2.5L Turbo is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MannyLegacy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Penguin---> <----AWD_Rules3830 J/k :munch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 So you should have bought a 2.5i and done a few upgrades to the suspension since you don't care about power. By the way, the new cars under discussion here are not going to have solid rear axles, and if based on the Holden products should be pretty good to drive. As far as the push rods comment goes, who the hell cares if the engines are as refined and powerful as they are. Push rods save space, push rods help save weight, push rods help keep costs down. See the post you were just quoting, the LS2 uses push rods. It makes better power, and uses less fuel than the 2.5L in our car. So either the 6.0L LS2 is a really good motor, or the 2.5L Turbo is pathetic. I like my power and the GT had some features i liked. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 AWD_Rules, Switching from a technical(bad tech) argument to an emotional(I like because) one only shows one's ignorance. Very weaksauce. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 now i got two people against me on this thread lol. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 you know maybe GM Aussie and GM Europe are alive and well but the American company is pretty much useless ... all these new cars they are coming out with are coming from aus. not America. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I doubt that the G8 will have a live axle. The GTO didn't. Pushrods vs OHC is an old debate, and no one has won it yet. I tend to fall on the DOHC multi-valve side of the equation, but I don't deny that pushrod engines do work. If they detune the G8 GXP or whatever their high-end 6-liter model... it will be interesting to hear a bunch of people tuning the car for 200-some horsepower over stock, with just a few mods. I like the design of the car, and the interior, at least in the Aus Commodore form. If they ruin it for the US, that will be more of a problem than the engine output (which is far easier to change) Plus they say they are trying to cut it's weight from nearly two tons. That should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukindada Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hopefully.....if it hit's our shores @ the magic 4,000lb range. No Thanks!!!! Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 They better not put that disgusting bubbly sheet metal they have been putting on Pontiac sedans for years As for pushrod engines, as long as technology and improved materials keep keeping them in the game, the Big 3 will never let those 2 valve per cylinder things die Pushrods will be around for a long time. I thought variable timing would kill them off but then they came up with shaft in shaft technology. I thought high revs would do the same but then they came up with titanium rods and lighter pistons etc etc to achieve 8k RPM. I thought fuel consumption would kill them off then they came up with cylinder deactivation which is really hard on an overhead cam but easy on a pushrod. I do believe that technology for overhead cam engines has remained stagnant for a decade, I mean mercedes had variable timing back in 94 and Honda has had Vtec for a while, its just been refined even more today but nothing really new has come up, and this has allowed pushrods to keep up and stay in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 So its a replacement for the Gran Prix? I see Americans buying RWD Impalas but not Gran Prixs, even if it is a different car........and yes it needs a clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neelnug Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 There was a recent article on the new Dodge Viper Motor with 600hp. One of the coments was that the techonology innovations on that motor will keep it competitive for years to come. (performance innovations, not fuel mileage) A 600hp truck motor no more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I was just lookin at the current Grand Prix. Still only comes with a 4 spd auto. Even the G6 has a 6 speed auto or manual. Get with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I was just lookin at the current Grand Prix. Still only comes with a 4 spd auto. Even the G6 has a 6 speed auto or manual. Get with the times. The Holden Commodore can be had with a 6 speed maual or auto. The G8 is going to be the same car. It should kick some ass, I will be watching closely as I plan on replacing the Legacy in the next year to year and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach_six Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 That thing looks like something chip foose drew up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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