Man vs Auto

[sde]

time for n00b question .. :D has there been any comparisons on how much quicker off the line a manual lgt can be vs. an auto in shift mode?

[GBY]

In my opinion sde you'll have to be prepared to dish out a little abuse to the clutch/tranny in the manual car in order to make it significantly faster. An in boost clutch slip will make the manual car considerably quicker but it's not day-to-day stuff for most of us. Having said that I still think the manual tranny would have the advantage even with an everyday take-off followed by redlining through the gears.

[sde]

thanks .. i'm getting an auto no matter what since i get the chance to sit in l.a. traffic everyday, but i just wanted to get a feel for the difference. i appreciate the insight.

[Drift Monkey]

A MT will always launch harder/faster then the AT. The AT will probably be more consistant however.

[Ken S]

As with any 0-60 test, driver technique and local conditions will affect times. Unfortunately, no single car review has tested a MT and 5EAT back-to-back so you can only get a sense based on the tests results out there. The test results out so far seem to show 5MT in the mid/high 5 second mark (5.6-5.7 seconds) and the 5EAT at around 7 seconds. Both of those times probably required some tranny abuse, however. Yeah, LA traffic is pretty bad. I can understand not wanting to get a manual there. Ken

[Black_Legacy]

I think automatic should be left for the crappy american cars i.e. Kia's, Allero's, and so on. If the Ford GT offered a car in an straight 5 speed automatic would you buy it? Probably not, because what's the point of an automatic on a fast car? The car is fast, but the automatic makes it slower. IMO fast/sporty cars should only come in maunal transmission, if you can't drive a manual then you shouldn't be driving a fast car. Yes, they do have fast shifting automatics, but I'm talking the normal type automatic seen in america.

[D-2.5-GT]

Kia = Korean = POS!

[Xaqtly]

I sit in L.A. traffic every day too, but I have the M/T. Autos just kill my buzz, I would never get an auto in any car that I cared about.

[Trent Bates]

[quote name='Black_Legacy']I think automatic should be left for the crappy american cars i.e. Kia's, Allero's, and so on. If the Ford GT offered a car in an straight 5 speed automatic would you buy it? Probably not, because what's the point of an automatic on a fast car? The car is fast, but the automatic makes it slower. IMO fast/sporty cars should only come in maunal transmission, if you can't drive a manual then you shouldn't be driving a fast car. Yes, they do have fast shifting automatics, but I'm talking the normal type automatic seen in america.[/QUOTE] :confused: You used to have a GTP. :confused: Did you hold this "all fast cars should only come with MT" opinion when you drove a GTP? I don't know about you, but I used to get some pretty respectable times in my GTP. I [b]often[/b] beat Mustangs. (Except for those orange w/black stripes "Boss" models. :) ) I'm not saying it's always this way, but a good automatic can shift better than many MT drivers can on a consistent basis. AT's don't have to be slower than MT's, and in real world use, they are sometimes faster. For the record, I used to drive MT's all the time. I ended up with a car with an AT back in college and it just kind of stuck. I have had MT's since, but none have been my main car. I like the sport shift and pseudo-manual options on my '05 GT but I rarely use them. (Just to prove how ingrained the stick shift actions are: I still rest my right hand on the gear selector knob or parking brake the entire time I'm driving unless I need both hands to steer.) I guess some of you might have the opinion that I'm not a good driver or a worthy opponent at the track. IMNSHO, that's a very old and outdated concept! Next you could be saying that any fast car shouldn't have AC or Power Steering. :rolleyes:

[GBY]

[quote name='sde']thanks .. i'm getting an auto no matter what since i get the chance to sit in l.a. traffic everyday, but i just wanted to get a feel for the difference. i appreciate the insight.[/QUOTE]Faced with mind blowing traffic on a daily basis I would more than likely get the auto also. The Legacy is a fine car with either transmission, enjoy. *edit* Please don't turn this thread into a Man. v Auto. flame war.

[NewScooby]

Manual trans owner question? Just a little background on my driving style. I have owned manual trans cars for the last 13 years. I dont drop the clutch, but I do drive very aggressively. I have never had any problems with the trans/clutch in my previous cars. So this being said During dry pavement, straight line, No powershifting, trips through the country I have been slipping the clutch into second for fear of drivetrain abuse. Should I ride the clutch a little on the first shift or is the impact to the drivetrain ok? Will the Auto trans bark the tires on the 1st to 2nd shift like the manual does? How hard does the auto shift?

[Black_Legacy]

[quote name='Trent Bates']:confused: You used to have a GTP. :confused: Did you hold this "all fast cars should only come with MT" opinion when you drove a GTP? I don't know about you, but I used to get some pretty respectable times in my GTP. I [b]often[/b] beat Mustangs. (Except for those orange w/black stripes "Boss" models. :) ) I'm not saying it's always this way, but a good automatic can shift better than many MT drivers can on a consistent basis. AT's don't have to be slower than MT's, and in real world use, they are sometimes faster. For the record, I used to drive MT's all the time. I ended up with a car with an AT back in college and it just kind of stuck. I have had MT's since, but none have been my main car. I like the sport shift and pseudo-manual options on my '05 GT but I rarely use them. (Just to prove how ingrained the stick shift actions are: I still rest my right hand on the gear selector knob or parking brake the entire time I'm driving unless I need both hands to steer.) I guess some of you might have the opinion that I'm not a good driver or a worthy opponent at the track. IMNSHO, that's a very old and outdated concept! Next you could be saying that any fast car shouldn't have AC or Power Steering. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] I upgraded to the GTP from the GT. They don't make those cars in a manual, or I'd would have gotten one. Also, it being a fwd car, it wasn't a big deal to have a auto. It was a fast car, but the automatic transmission made it slower and that's my whole point.

[Trent Bates]

[quote name='Black_Legacy']Also, it being a fwd car, it wasn't a big deal to have a auto. It was a fast car, but the automatic transmission made it slower and that's my whole point.[/QUOTE] Okay, how do you know that the automatic transmission made the GTP slower? (They are all automatics as you said so how can you compare?) I can't even begin to imagine what FWD has to do with this. Can you let off the power, shift, and get back on the power in 0.1 to 0.3 seconds (as verified with AutoTap, an ODBII interface) in every shift like the AT in the GTP does? Can you even shift in 0.3 seconds manually? Can a clutch multiply the torque the way that a torque convertor can? The AT in the GTP was one of the nicest around (and has been used in many other manufacturers cars) except for the problem it has with handling extra power and torque reliably. My point here is that the concept of AT being inferior to MT goes back to the early days when the concept was really true and ATs shifted slowly and unreliably. That was a long time ago and definitely before you and I were born. Did you know that ATs were banned in some racing events because they gave the driver an unfair advantage? All professional drag racers use a variation of an AT that is computer controlled (2 and 3 speed units with controlled overdrives). As mentioned in the other thread, many, if not most, serious amateur drag racers use ATs now. MTs have their place, and so do ATs! These are GT class cars after all. If you want a car with tons of torque in the low end and neck-snapping off the line acceleration, you should be in a huge-engined NA car instead. Even your GTP was better at this than a GT Turbo will be. You are of course allowed to have your opinion about this. At least make it an educated opinion. If you have the education, and aren't blindly repeating the rhetoric you've heard from boy racers, phrasing your opinion differently would do a lot of good! You know what I mean? No hard feelings Black_Legacy. I just felt that your opinion the way it was phrased (and the way I read it) was short-sighted. Maybe it's not short-sighted to you (and maybe I'm all wrong), but there's no point in alienating a large portion of the forum with what could be construed as baseless AT driver bashing. ;)

[GBY]

[quote name='NewScooby']Manual trans owner question? Just a little background on my driving style. I have owned manual trans cars for the last 13 years. I dont drop the clutch, but I do drive very aggressively. I have never had any problems with the trans/clutch in my previous cars. So this being said During dry pavement, straight line, No powershifting, trips through the country I have been slipping the clutch into second for fear of drivetrain abuse. Should I ride the clutch a little on the first shift or is the impact to the drivetrain ok? Will the Auto trans bark the tires on the 1st to 2nd shift like the manual does? How hard does the auto shift?[/QUOTE] Personally I don't ride the clutch changing into second, actually I try to make all gear changes as smooth as possible, I guess I challenge myself to change gear as smoothly as a good auto tranny would. I also rev match on down changes for the sake of the drivetrain.

[Drift Monkey]

I drive in Houston traffic daily with my MT as well. I guess iit kinda depends on tolerance because I don't even notice it.

[godwhomismike]

[quote name='D-2.5-GT']Kia = Korean = POS![/QUOTE] Well you may think so, but the "POS" Kia got me through college. I've had it for 6 years now with NO problems. Today, I use it now for my paper route I do in the wee hours of the morning, going places I wouldn't dare park the Legacy, and in god awful weather. My "POS" Kia has performed very well for a crappy Korean car, thank you very much. - Mike

[KTM 525]

Dont think I read anyone talk about shift extension in an Auto vs man.Shift both @ 6 grand I wonder where each falls back to? Bet the man loses less rpm keeping it in the sweet spot.

[godwhomismike]

This topic has been talked about over and over and over again. It's like every week someone posts "whats fastr teh auto or manual!!!111." Who cares, enjoy your car. If you do a search, you'll see this topic has been discussed about a million times and each time it goes on endlessly for about 10 pages. - Mike

[KTM 525]

yeah but wich one is faster? LOL

[godwhomismike]

Does it really matter that much? If you really wanted to go faster and faster, maybe the STi would've been a better match. Also if going fast was that important to you a '03 or '04 Cobra would've been a better bet - heck for less than it'll cost to mod the Legacy, you could have a 650-700 rwhp monster. As for the question of which is faster, the manual of course, as long as you decide you want to do 5 & 6K rpm take offs. - Mike

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

Paper route?

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='jedimaster']Paper route?[/QUOTE] "I didn't ask for a dime. 2 dollars. Cash." Name that movie!

[Beanboy]

The manual is faster. But more importantly when I test drove them back-to-back, the manual felt MUCH faster. More important 90% of the time while driving... -B

[Whitestar Pilot]

Studies have shown that people who drive a manual have lower stress levels than people who drive automatics. If I were in LA traffic, I would want the manual for sure. Not to mention the fact that the manual is always going to be faster, but with Subaru turbo cars, there is such a huge difference that its not even worth arguing about.

[Stef]

[quote name='Drift Monkey']"I didn't ask for a dime. 2 dollars. Cash." Name that movie![/QUOTE] Better Off Dead? Don't specifically remember that line, just the "I want my 2 dollars!!!"