Pirelli PZero Nero M&S (All-Season)

[racerdave]

Yep, you hit in on the head about the low temps, but without snow. The all-seasons are better in those circumstances. Also, I think the all-seaons tend to wear a bit better than their summer counterparts. So I'm willing to trade some grip -- not to mention the $116 per-tire price -- for those reasons. And since my shifter kart is what I use for [b]real[/b] grip, I don't need the fractionally higher summer-only grip on the street.

[outahere]

[quote name='SUBE555'] Nokian WRs or Nero M&S for winter (lets face it, it doesn't snow enough where I am to generally use a snow-only tire as many lack enough on dry pavement to not make it worthwhile for a dedicated version for me.) Something stickier for warm weather, there's a lot more options in this field though. [/quote] Have you tried the Blizzak LM-22? Less ultimate snow/ice grip than the WS-50, but a higher speed rating (H and V), and better in the dry. A more "european" winter tire if you will.

[SUBE555]

Nope, haven't tried them. Don't plan on going fast enough to go past the WS-50 speed ratings of a WS-50, but as I said, we generally don't get quite enough of the white stuff on a regular basis on-road to require regular snows. M&S A/S tires generally work fairly decent for me. Anyone ever tried the Toyo Proxies 4, which is supposed to be an A/S but seems more performance oriented than the Nero M&S's? [img]http://www.1010tires.com/images/tires/toyo_proxes4_lg.jpg[/img]

[gtguy]

Mike Shields at SPD Tuning has always been a fan of the Proxes. Kevin

[racerdave]

Seth, why do you say they seem more performance oriented than the Neros?

[outahere]

[quote name='SUBE555']Nope, haven't tried them. Don't plan on going fast enough to go past the WS-50 speed ratings of a WS-50, but as I said, we generally don't get quite enough of the white stuff on a regular basis on-road to require regular snows. M&S A/S tires generally work fairly decent for me.[/quote] Not enough snow in Wisconsin?! Don't you get around 4-6 feet of it every winter?

[SUBE555]

Dave, despite tire compounds, a tread pattern generally tells a bit of what a tire can do, not all, but it is a tell-tale sign, at least for certain conditions. You can generally tell if a tire is going to have a better chance at being good with rain or in the dry, etc, maybe it's just me, but I can see some of that in a tire. Quite a bit is derived from compounds being used, but the pattern also has a lot to do with it. I'm not saying the Nero is a bad tire, just commenting on how the Proxes 4 ;) also looks rather capable in it's own right, the blocks overall in the center appear larger on the Toyo which leads me to believe it might be a little better in the dry. Just some observations. Just for comparison sake: [img]http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/pirelli/pi_p_zero_nero_ci2_l.jpg[/img] EDIT: Outahere, that's up north. My area I think averages around 25-30 inches per year. Probably snows more than a dusting about a dozen times and about half of those if we're lucky is more than 2-3" in the NE area around Green Bay. We've had winters with nearly 60" around by us but they're few and far between it seems. It does get bitter cold though. I think January had a few days where the low wasn't below zero and I think we had almost a week straight of below zero temps constantly. Makes good ice for ice racing anyhow. :P I just take the truck to pull people out then. :lol:

[Drift Monkey]

I love the ablility to have summer tires year round! No comprimises!

[racerdave]

Seth... but the Nero M&S tread pattern is the same as the Nero... which outscored the S-03 in the TireRack's tests. The Nero (non-MS) is a very, very capable performance tire. I would expect pretty good things out of the M&S version. They're both in the "Ultra" category on TireRack. In fact, I'm really, really considering having them put on the car when I take delivery because I know how much I hate the 92s.

[outahere]

[quote name='SUBE555']................ a tread pattern generally tells a bit of what a tire can do, not all, but it is a tell-tale sign, at least for certain conditions. You can generally tell if a tire is going to have a better chance at being good with rain or in the dry, etc, maybe it's just me, but I can see some of that in a tire. Quite a bit is derived from compounds being used, but the pattern also has a lot to do with it.[/quote] I agree with this. Solid shoulder blocks imply good cornering in the dry. Deep angled grooves in the center of the tire are good for evacuating water, implying good rain performance.

[outahere]

[quote name='SUBE555'] Outahere, that's up north. My area I think averages around 25-30 inches per year. Probably snows more than a dusting about a dozen times and about half of those if we're lucky is more than 2-3" in the NE area around Green Bay. We've had winters with nearly 60" around by us but they're few and far between it seems. It does get bitter cold though. I think January had a few days where the low wasn't below zero and I think we had almost a week straight of below zero temps constantly. Makes good ice for ice racing anyhow. :P I just take the truck to pull people out then. :lol:[/quote] I will soon be moving from arid California (lived here all my life) to a part of the country with an average annual snowfall around 4ft. I plan to buy a Legacy GT wagon in September, then move around October, by which time winter will be just around the corner. I am thinking I will be be better off in the winter with true snow tires (Blizzak LM22 or WS50) on a Legacy GT wagon, rather than with all seasons like the Nero M&S. Do you agree?

[Drift Monkey]

A dedicated set of Wheels/Blizzaks is what I would do if I had bad winters.

[racerdave]

Yeah, dedicated snows all the way. Even though I'm going for the M&S version of the Nero, it's mainly for spring/fall reasons when 40 degrees and rain is a distinct probability, and longer treadlife than the non-M&S Nero's. And I'm willing to trade some dry-weather grip for it. But dedicated snows will be going on the car. I can't wait to experience the GT in snow wearing snow tires. Yeehaa!

[SUBE555]

I just haven't seen a bad enough winter yet to make it worthwhile in my case. 2-3' max just doesn't really make it worthwhile for an extra set for those 3, MAYBE 4 months. It's dry most of the time, just cold pavement. RacerDave, I wasn't discarding the Nero M&S as a bad tire, or at least didn't mean to, just sort of saw the Proxes 4 while searching around a bit and thought it might make an interesting comparo and wondering if anyone had tried them or knows anyone who has. It looks capable, just how capable in comparo to the Nero is a question. I ran some guys from Chicago this spring who had the Neros M&S through the winter and for the gravel roads we hit (it was on their STi), and they said they felt really good overall. Not an extreme tire in any one category, just really good in so many places. Well, there is enough time before winter to still make up my decision and see if anything else thats good comes out in the next several months.

[racerdave]

I've researched the bejezus out of the Neros... I'm looking forward to getting them. :)

[SUBE555]

Maybe you should get the Neros and I should get the Toyos so we could compare. :mrgreen:

[outahere]

[quote name='racerdave']Yeah, dedicated snows all the way. Even though I'm going for the M&S version of the Nero, it's mainly for spring/fall reasons when 40 degrees and rain is a distinct probability, and longer treadlife than the non-M&S Nero's. And I'm willing to trade some dry-weather grip for it. But dedicated snows will be going on the car. I can't wait to experience the GT in snow wearing snow tires. Yeehaa![/quote] Hmmmm, dedicated snows for the winter, Nero M&S for the spring and fall. And then a different set of tires for summer? :D

[racerdave]

No, no... just the Neros, and I'll accept that they're a slight summer compromise. :)

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='outahere'][quote name='racerdave']Yeah, dedicated snows all the way. Even though I'm going for the M&S version of the Nero, it's mainly for spring/fall reasons when 40 degrees and rain is a distinct probability, and longer treadlife than the non-M&S Nero's. And I'm willing to trade some dry-weather grip for it. But dedicated snows will be going on the car. I can't wait to experience the GT in snow wearing snow tires. Yeehaa![/quote] Hmmmm, dedicated snows for the winter, Nero M&S for the spring and fall. And then a different set of tires for summer? :D[/quote] Why not Nero non-m&s in the fall/spring?

[racerdave]

Go back and read... :) Nothing wrong with those, just not my choice, that's all.

[Drift Monkey]

I read it and know why you think you chose the MS, but since you're willing to comprimise, I guess the M&S are for you. :D

[brady_bunch]

What's to compromise? According to stats on the tires, the M&S has slightly better dry handling, better wet handling, better ride comfort, better noise comfort, MUCH better wear, plus they are cheaper. The only thing I see the non-M&S winning is the speed rating. Am I missing something? It wouldn't suprise me if I am. :oops:

[Drift Monkey]

non-M&S are labeled as Max Performance Summers, while M&S are labeled as Ultra High Performance All-Seasons. :?:

[outahere]

[quote name='brady_bunch']What's to compromise? According to stats on the tires, the M&S has slightly better dry handling, better wet handling, better ride comfort, better noise comfort, MUCH better wear, plus they are cheaper. The only thing I see the non-M&S winning is the speed rating. Am I missing something? It wouldn't suprise me if I am. :oops:[/quote] Are you basing this on a head to head, same day/conditions test of the M&S vs the non-M&S? Do you have a link to this test? I can believe the M&S Nero has better comfort and noise characteristics, and is cheaper and longer wearing, but I find it harder to believe that it has better wet and dry handling than the summer Nero at temps above 50F.

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='outahere']Are you basing this on a head to head, same day/conditions test of the M&S vs the non-M&S? Do you have a link to this test? I can believe the M&S Nero has better comfort and noise characteristics, and is cheaper and longer wearing, but I find it harder to believe that it has better wet and dry handling than the summer Nero at temps above 50F.[/quote] He is basing it on Tire Rack's user ratings. The tread might appear to be the same, but the compound of the tire, likely, is not.