HID conversion for fog lights

[lookslikeanevo]

Yeah, bling, my ass. You are retarded my friends if you think your fog lights look cool.

 

Extra light without proper cutoff MEANS extra glare. PERIOD.

 

WTF? your retarded for not thinking they are...like stated above its just lights jeezus

[lookslikeanevo]

Wow, another fog light thread... must be winter again.

 

 

Our fog lights are aimed low on purpose to highlight the road in front of the car to show us specifically where we are in conjunction with the road itself, to keep us all safely in our lane and not killing ourselves (or oncoming drivers) in serious fog conditions.

 

I do agree with Unclemat in the fact that so many people drive around in the city on a clear night (and middle of the day too!) with headlights and driving / fog lights on... when it's not necessary.

 

My city has a law where extra sets of lights are to be only turned on while travelling on the highway, or during inclement weather conditions that actually warrant such extra lighting. It's a ticketable offense over here...

 

sucks to live anywhere near you then....cus lights are light they are just that....

 

thats like getting the govt to ban bilboards because they thake the drivers eyes off the road...glare? you guys are complaning about glare from fogs?

 

first if there is glare from fogs, then they are not doing anything to help...especailly in fog...but yes i do understand that there are plenty of cars on the road equipped with fogs, that are nto really functional...DOt approved it...so...what are you gonna do

 

the sun also causes glare...maybe cops should give tickets for that, oh and windows form other cars, and newly washed cars, and chrome parts on cars also cause glare...maybe they should ban chrome auto parts altogether...

 

you guys should be more worries about olders crs, whose lights are pointed up, you YouR mirrors causing the glare...now that they should really have a law about and/or should be part of any state/country inspection...as those lights that are not amed correctly seem to bother a lot more than glare offof fog lights

[DCD]

lookslikeanevo....what brand HIDs are you using in your fogs?

[John M]

There's no way that a beam focused mere inches off the road surface at its highest point (and aiming down as you move away from the vehicle) is going to cast "glare" more than six feet into the air and into your eyes. Not gonna happen, I don't care if it's a perfectly clear night or 12 noon.

 

The "using fogs in clear weather = glare" argument is OVER. Disagree with using them in "non-fog" conditions all you want, but it doesn't hurt anybody either.

[Guest]

There's no way that a beam focused mere inches off the road surface at its highest point (and aiming down as you move away from the vehicle) is going to cast "glare" more than six feet into the air and into your eyes. Not gonna happen, I don't care if it's a perfectly clear night or 12 noon.

 

The "using fogs in clear weather = glare" argument is OVER. Disagree with using them in "non-fog" conditions all you want, but it doesn't hurt anybody either.

 

 

Yeah, I must be smoking something. So several jurisdicitions which prohibits use of them in clear conditions.

 

And, who the heck called them fog lights and why he was so stupid to include separate switch.

 

Hmmm, all this is strange.

[PhilT]

 

Have you wondered why there is a separate switch, btw?

 

Same reason as there's a separate switch for your heated seats

[STG]

 

Yeah, I must be smoking something. So several jurisdicitions which prohibits use of them in clear conditions.

 

And, who the heck called them fog lights and why he was so stupid to include separate switch.

 

Hmmm, all this is strange.

 

Whatever you do, don't move to Wyoming. Everybody runs with their fog lights on. I don't think you'd like my F250 Powerstroke with Hella Rally 4000s mounted just below headlight level. One driving beam and one cornering beam - I can see deer 250 ft. off the side of the road as well as 1,500 ft. ahead.

 

Plus, if some out-of-state station wagon driving weenie comes at me with his high beams on, a quick flash of the 4000s works wonders.

 

One downside of auxiliary lighting in Wyoming: The Fish and Game guys may think you're using those lights to hunt illegally from your vehicle.

[TSiWRX]

I still don't see how a light that has a max height of maybe 9 inches from the road's surface, aiming down is going to cause glare for anyone!

 

It can cause glare if conditions are just right - i.e. cresting a hill.

 

But under such conditions, *any* lighting will cause glare. Heck, even the best currently "adaptive"/"active" lighting still doesn't respond fast-enough, IMveryHO, to cut down on this problem.

 

But just going flat down the road, indeed, there's almost no way that a properly aimed pair of fogs, no matter how powerful, might produce enough glare to make for discomfort to your oncoming drivers. It's just too low, physically.

 

I agree, this worry is essentially a non-issue in the real-world.

 

I thought our lights are driving lights, and not fog lights? to be tru fog lights don't they need to be yellow and have a different pattern?

 

http://piaa.com/images/lamp-select_04.gif

 

http://piaa.com/images/lamp-select_06.gif

 

So if we have driving lights, then we should be OK??

 

This is in reference only to the Legacy.

 

Our OEMs are true fogs.

 

Combined with their typically low aim and low physical positioning, they're quite excellent at providing for good foreground illumination while significantly decreasing the chances you'll run into reflected glare or insult your fellow drivers.

 

With true driving lights, optimal placement would be higher-up - to co-align with your high-beams - in order to truly extend, as far as possible, night-time illumination. Thus, running true driving lamps "on" all the time would be a greater insult to your fellow drivers - especially if you're also running your high-beams at the same time.

 

The picture above shows less-than-ideal lamp placement on the driving lamps - but the illustration's focus is more to show the difference in both light dispersion on the horizontal axis (i.e. that the fogs will give better "side-to-side" illumination, closer to the vehicle) and overall distance/reach.

 

And finally, I don't believe in the theory that "near-field illumination hurts long distance perception." It's crap. Just because I want to see far away doesn't mean I no longer need to see close to me too. You must not have deer like we do here; you need light on the edges of the road.

 

^ I think that this has much more to do with your personal preference - and even to an extent how *you*, as an individual, "sees," brother.

 

This has been a feeling that's voiced by many, and to an extent, it's also why HIDs are so popular, as they do render quite a bit of subjective driver "comfort" by illuminationg the foreground so much. And in so much as absolute forward vision will impact our night-time driving abilities, so will overall driving comfort - and being able to see the road edge (which indeed can often include hazards, both animated and stationary!) is no small part of that.

 

Brother Bayley brings up many excellent points, and I think that the only thing I would contend (albeit as a hobbyist, and not a professional) is that although the nearer-white (but notice here that it's still yellower than many aftermarket, fashion-victim "blue/purple HIDs") lighting objectively produces better results, that personal-preference may shift visual "comfort" towards the yellower end of the spectrum under foul-weather conditions.

 

Regardless, there's really no reason why an HID setup, with proper optics and other design principles filled, should be inferior to standard incandescents in the application of fog/driving lamps.

 

---

 

And to brother unclemat :

 

And also, there's really more to running fogs at other times that can be of great benefit to the driver, but will not be of much insult to anyone else.

 

One example would be in-city driving, where more foreground light can help with avoiding potholes, road debris, etc. - especially when paired with typically slower road-speeds.

 

Similarly, fog-pattern lighting can also help with curb-delineation *after* a snowstorm or when there's lots of debris, like fall-time leaves, on the ground.

 

As with a lot of lighting laws, I think that it's about time that the lawmakers caught-on with current technology and made some changes. Fog lamps, properly aimed and utilized, shouldn't really be any more of a problem than properly aimed headlamps. A high-riding set of driving lamps, though, either for on-road use or off-road use....now that's another story altogether, particularly if the driver can't dip his high-beams properly already!

 

I think that the laws are on the books simply because it's so hard for the average driver/user to distinguish between whether or not they've got auxiliary fog-lights or driving-lights on their vehicle - and to a certain extent also dumbs-down to the lowest-common-denominator of assuming that none of us can properly aim - or use - either of these auxiliary lighting devices (which is why on many vehicles, there even exists the rather counter-intuitive dimming of the low-beams when the highs are engaged, or, more commonly, the dimming of the fog/driving lights when the high-beams are engaged - in order to satisfy the "less than 4 lamps on at any time" law).

[hutru01]

just go get some rockblocker lens for your fogs

 

Its easy and they look good if you have HID headlights

 

rockblocker.com

[Guest]

Brother TSi+WRX - I really love your balanced and informative posts.

 

Well, I admit I am a fog light nazi Perhaps I am more sensitive to the glare than most. And as I said multiple times, Legacy fog lights are not too powerful, situated low and indeed they won't cause much glare if at all.

 

The reason for the fog light abuse hatred is that many cars, mainly SUVs and pickups (but many cars, too) have extra powerful fogs that really cause huge glare that is obvious hazard and inconvenience to other drivers.

 

And while I agree that there might be non-fog situations (like pot hole avoidance) where fog lights are helpful, I still wish drivers wer more mindful of what they are doing, and not running fog lights because they look "cool". This is the most ridiculous argument I've heard few times, even on this board.

 

But then we would have less tailgating, non-signalled lane changes, etc. Oh, well.

[TSiWRX]

^ I dunno, bro, maybe I could use a bit more of your passion!

[hutru01]

Brother TSi+WRX - I really love your balanced and informative posts.

 

Well, I admit I am a fog light nazi Perhaps I am more sensitive to the glare than most. And as I said multiple times, Legacy fog lights are not too powerful, situated low and indeed they won't cause much glare if at all.

 

The reason for the fog light abuse hatred is that many cars, mainly SUVs and pickups (but many cars, too) have extra powerful fogs that really cause huge glare that is obvious hazard and inconvenience to other drivers.

 

And while I agree that there might be non-fog situations (like pot hole avoidance) where fog lights are helpful, I still wish drivers wer more mindful of what they are doing, and not running fog lights because they look "cool". This is the most ridiculous argument I've heard few times, even on this board.

 

But then we would have less tailgating, non-signalled lane changes, etc. Oh, well.

 

I have 6K HIDs and they illuminate the road quite well, I hardly ever have to use my brights. FYI The fogs are for looks as far as I am concerned

[pepe]

I have 6K HIDs and they illuminate the road quite well, I hardly ever have to use my brights. FYI The fogs are for looks as far as I am concerned

DONT use the brights in Matt's area, he's locked and freeek'n loaded....

[automaticsti]

thatd be really bright and cool

[GTS Jeff]

Wow, there is a lot of garbage in this thread. Here's all you need to know:

1. Fog lights don't need to be bright, they just need to be mounted low and have a sharp cutoff. Why? Because you want to minimize light bouncing off the fog and into your eyes.

2. Yellow is purported to be advantageous because our eyes define contrast best with yellow. But even this is a bit controversial. Either way, it has nothing to do with Raleigh scattering as some people might tell you.

3. ALWAYS run HIDs with HID optics and ALWAYS run halogen bulbs with halogen optics. Do not mix and match, EVAR. Doing so will create bitter and pissed off posters like unclemeat.

So what does this mean? In your case, here's what you need to do. Go out and buy a 3000k HID kit along with a set of fog lamps that are designed for HIDs and have a sharp cutoff. Then throw out the OEM fogs. Done. This may be a bit pricier than what you had planned, but it's the 'proper' way of doing it.

[lookslikeanevo]

^oh please

 

oem fogs are FINE with hids...cutoff is fine, and minimal glare

OEM projectors are fine with hids...cutoff is great and minimal glare

[GTS Jeff]

^oh please

 

oem fogs are FINE with hids...cutoff is fine, and minimal glare

OEM projectors are fine with hids...cutoff is great and minimal glare

I don't dispute that. Cutoff is very easy to achieve, as a projector's cutoff is made with a simple shield in front of the light source.

 

However, beam pattern and light dispersion is a totally different matter. A projector has to place the light coming from the source into the right spot on the road ahead. When you use proper optics designed to focus light from a light source placed in a certain spot and of a certain shape (ie. the HID curved arc vs. a straight halogen filament) on the wrong type of light source, your light is won't hit the road as the manufacturer intended. Companies like Hella and PIAA spend a lot of R&D money on developing their optics to create a balanced and far-reaching beam pattern without hot spots and dark spots. Why throw all that carefully developed work away with your own subjective opinion on the beam pattern?

 

Either way, I'm posting good info here to help the OP here, so don't hate.

[lookslikeanevo]

im in no way hating...

 

but as for my own R&D...going to a hid bowl, didnt really do much

 

and hella and piaa make bulbs.... they dont neccesarily make the bowl, they may do the r&D on what type of lights would would better with the bowl...but then comes in the manufacturer of the lenz and if they do spends tons of money on R&D then why is it that hella hid bulbs are still not preffered over phillips?, and piaa? halogen? please...why even spend money on "perfomance" halogen bulbs...is there even a reason to?

[GTS Jeff]

I don't know how you got PIAA halogen bulbs (which are garbage IMO) and Hella HID bulbs out of my post. I'm just saying that a company's R&D means more than some car nut's own subjective opinion.

 

And you make it sound like they just make some random lens, then see what works best with it, but it's the other way around; they design the lens around the light source.

[GTS Jeff]

Why are they garbage? For the price they better be good.. I was looking at tossing in a set of crystal ions into the Outback fogs. Why those? Because they are yellow and easier to see with, whereas HID's are not.

Sigh...this is really getting OT, but sure whatever, I'll explain.

 

Most PIAA bulbs are no better than any other bulbs out there. What you are paying for is marketing. The typical PIAA bulb is advertised as 55w=85w or some other bogus claim. Think about that. Is it really possible to get 85w out of 55w? No, that would violate the laws of thermodynamics. In fact, all PIAA is doing is coating their bulbs blue to raise the colour temperature to approximate the colour temperature of a higher wattage bulb. But the cost of this coating is that it absorbs some light, so the bulb actually ends up being dimmer than a standard, uncoated bulb. Another side effect of the coating is that it traps a lot of heat in the bulb, causing premature bulb failure. As if this weren't bad enough...PIAA has the nerve to charge ridiculous amounts for their bulbs! Don't just take my word for it...do some googling and you will find quantitative tests showing that PIAA bulbs are ALWAYS dimmer than OEM bulbs.

 

Now I know you're talking about YELLOW crystal ion bulbs, and not the blue ones...but I am justifying my original comment. My only beef with PIAA's crystal ion bulbs is that they are simply WAYYYY overpriced. You can buy Hella bulbs with the exact same type of yellow dichroic coating for a fraction of the price. Check out www.rallylights.com and browse for Hella Yellowstars. Hella Yellowstars also come in higher wattages too.

[lookslikeanevo]

but higher wattages causes strain on your harnesses and things around it...

[GTS Jeff]

but higher wattages causes strain on your harnesses and things around it...

This is partially correct. Your harness itself can withstand a whole bunch of wattage and the voltage drop will be quite significant (and noticeable because it affects brightness) before you really start generating unsafe amounts of heat. The main problem is not the wiring harness, but the headlight switch, which is tiny and cannot be upgraded. The solution is to relay the headlights with their own circuit (with the appropriate wire thickness) to the battery to the headlight switch.

 

But of course, when you are running bulbs that are only slightly overwattage, say anything under 80w, you really don't have to do this if you don't want to.

[VXCL]

i will agree PIAA are way overpriced for what they are, however everytime i've bought their products they have lasted the life of the car. i have not had that luck with any other brand other then philps / osram d2s, d1s xenon bulbs. their ion yellow bulbs are NICE and contrast awesomely with my xenons.

 

also i did not read this whole thread but just going by the title i would say it is a waste to retro real xenon setup into our fogs becuase they are limited optically. if your are a nut and must have them then they should work just fine and i'm sure they will work a little better then upgraded h3 bulbs, but you wont get all the light you should out of them. they have a very small output pattern. maybe that could be changed as well if you take them apart. has anyone taken them apart yet?

[Guest]

For those how think it's cool to run with fogs on all the time, please read:

 

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

[Deer Killer]

Our fog lights are aimed low on purpose

No, they are not.. Unless your dealer was kind enough to do this, which as far as I've seen none are, it's just not.

 

My headlights were ~15-20 degrees too high, and my fogs pointed down so far that they only went about 10 feet past the bumper..