HID conversion for fog lights

[Deer Killer]

This is partially correct. Your harness itself can withstand a whole bunch of wattage and the voltage drop will be quite significant (and noticeable because it affects brightness) before you really start generating unsafe amounts of heat. The main problem is not the wiring harness, but the headlight switch, which is tiny and cannot be upgraded. The solution is to relay the headlights with their own circuit (with the appropriate wire thickness) to the battery to the headlight switch.

 

But of course, when you are running bulbs that are only slightly overwattage, say anything under 80w, you really don't have to do this if you don't want to.

Everything is on a relay, the wiring is fine... This isn't ford..

[hutru01]

Everything is on a relay, the wiring is fine... This isn't ford..

 

Everyone and their brother drives with their fog lights on in Northern VA and DC

[Guest]

Everyone and their brother drives with their fog lights on in Northern VA and DC

 

Redneck country.

 

 

 

[hutru01]

Redneck country.

 

 

 

 

Not really, that would be southern va. People have so much money around here they don't know what to do with it. Fog lights do make your car look meaner though. You have to admit that seeing HIDs with yellow fogs looks sweet. Regardless of the blinding factor. If it gets people out of my way, then fine by me.

[Guest]

^ No it does not look sweet. Looks stupid.

[hutru01]

^ No it does not look sweet. Looks stupid.

 

I respect your opinion. But a lot of people like the look, including me. Plus it makes me more visible for all the idiots that can't drive around here.

[Guest]

Seriously, please be considarate and do not run fogs when conditions don't warrant it. Please read this again:

 

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

[hutru01]

Seriously, please be considarate and do not run fogs when conditions don't warrant it. Please read this again:

 

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

 

I read it, will take into consideration.

[TSiWRX]

^ Although I agree with the vast majority of Stern's writings - as I do on this subject, too - I still think that to be absolutely fair, they only espouse one side of the arguement.

 

One thing that I do not agree with is his assertion that HIDs are inherently unsuited to fog-lamp use - I am of the humble opinion that it's not the light source, but rather, how the resultant light is manipulated and managed that makes a true difference.

[GTS Jeff]

^ Although I agree with the vast majority of Stern's writings - as I do on this subject, too - I still think that to be absolutely fair, they only espouse one side of the arguement.

 

One thing that I do not agree with is his assertion that HIDs are inherently unsuited to fog-lamp use - I am of the humble opinion that it's not the light source, but rather, how the resultant light is manipulated and managed that makes a true difference.

 

 

How can you not agree? Stern backs his argument up with solid facts - namely that HIDs are a poor fog light source because they have a low CRI and because the blue/white colour temperature is perceived as glare by human eyes, therefore contracting our pupils, letting less light into our eyes, and decreasing visibility.

 

Your "opinion," humble as it may be, has no rebuttal to Stern's assertions.

[Bayley]

Stern backs his argument up with solid facts...

 

:lol:

 

That's the funniest thing I've read in a LOOONG time. Thanks for the laugh mate.

[praedet]

namely that HIDs are a poor fog light source because they have a low CRI and because the blue/white colour temperature is perceived as glare by human eyes, therefore contracting our pupils, letting less light into our eyes, and decreasing visibility

That is only an HID in the 4100K and up category, what about 3000K HIDs

[hutru01]

That is only an HID in the 4100K and up category, what about 3000K HIDs

 

3000K HIDs are pointless unless you are doing yellow fogs.

[GTS Jeff]

That is only an HID in the 4100K and up category, what about 3000K HIDs

3000k HIDs are merely 4100k HIDs with yellow paint over the glass. The same flaws still apply.

[praedet]

OK

[Guest]

3000k HIDs are merely 4100k HIDs with yellow paint over the glass. The same flaws still apply.

 

But the yellow regular bulbs are also "painted"... they have dichroic coating on the bulb glass which reflects blue and passes yellow.

[praedet]

Exactly, getting rid of the

blue/white colour temperature

that

is perceived as glare by human eyes

couteract what you said. With Halogen or HID...

 

Doesn't matter if it is with paint or gas choice...

 

Ted

[NSFW]

The typical PIAA bulb is advertised as 55w=85w or some other bogus claim. Think about that. Is it really possible to get 85w out of 55w? No, that would violate the laws of thermodynamics.

 

Wait 'til you see their patented perpetual motion machine.

 

Seriously though, the confusion above stems from the fact that bulbs are traditionally rated by how much power they consume, not by how much light they produce. Yes, this is stupid. And it's even codified into law in some jurisdictions (probably most). This scheme was probably invented by the same geniuses who gave us barely-comprehensible tire sizes using a combination of imperial units, metric units, and thickness expressed as a percentage of width. But I digress.

 

Anyway. PIAA is just claiming (probably accurately) that their bulbs draw 55 watts of power, but because of their increased efficiency they produce as much light as a conventional bulb would produce when drawing 85 watts. Such bulbs would be illegal, if legislators were less stupid (i.e. if laws regulated light output rather than power consumption).

[TSiWRX]

How can you not agree? Stern backs his argument up with solid facts - namely that HIDs are a poor fog light source because they have a low CRI and because the blue/white colour temperature is perceived as glare by human eyes, therefore contracting our pupils, letting less light into our eyes, and decreasing visibility.

 

Your "opinion," humble as it may be, has no rebuttal to Stern's assertions.

 

Sorry for the late reply - been busy.

 

---

 

My opinion is my rebuttal simply because while Stern's assertions are based on facts, as Bayley hinted, Stern still only slectively chooses to utilize the facts which support his arguments - but conveniently does not examine those facts and scientific data/observations which do not mesh with his views.

 

Take his point of view, but translate over to some of the independent hobbyist websites, and you'll see plenty of arguments against. Granted, some are based simply on personal observations and are definitely less than scientific, but you'll also see plenty of good, scientific rebuttals and hard data which goes against his assertions.

 

Stern's view of things only represents his beliefs. I think it's important that both sides of the argument are examined, and that we make our own judgements based on facts that both sides present.

 

Just because one side has better presentation - where we as consumers/researchers into our potential purchases can easily and concisely gather information, such as on Stern's site- shouldn't automatically give it the overall win.

 

Also, I think that it is not completely unfair to remember that Stern's website does carry with it a commercial aim.

[Drewski]

3000k HIDs are merely 4100k HIDs with yellow paint over the glass. The same flaws still apply.

 

 

Only on the crappy China made bulbs. The Philips Ultinon 3000K (very, very rare in the USSA) actually uses completely different halides in the burner that produce YELLOW spectrum lighting, and less in the blue spectrum....

 

just like in the 6000K ultinon the halides are again completely different, in this case to accent the blue spectrum...

 

And yes most of the yellow bulbs have dyed glass to further filter out blue spectrum light.

 

3000K HID fogs actually work awesome in crappy weather. I had them on my Jeep. I'd but them on my LGT, but I am so loving my "ricer blue" fogs at the moment

 

D

[GTS Jeff]

Sorry for the late reply - been busy.

 

---

 

My opinion is my rebuttal simply because while Stern's assertions are based on facts, as Bayley hinted, Stern still only slectively chooses to utilize the facts which support his arguments - but conveniently does not examine those facts and scientific data/observations which do not mesh with his views.

 

Take his point of view, but translate over to some of the independent hobbyist websites, and you'll see plenty of arguments against. Granted, some are based simply on personal observations and are definitely less than scientific, but you'll also see plenty of good, scientific rebuttals and hard data which goes against his assertions.

 

Stern's view of things only represents his beliefs. I think it's important that both sides of the argument are examined, and that we make our own judgements based on facts that both sides present.

 

Just because one side has better presentation - where we as consumers/researchers into our potential purchases can easily and concisely gather information, such as on Stern's site- shouldn't automatically give it the overall win.

 

Also, I think that it is not completely unfair to remember that Stern's website does carry with it a commercial aim.

Fair enough, you refer to all these great arguments against what Stern says, but I'd really like to see some of it. How about some links?

 

Only on the crappy China made bulbs. The Philips Ultinon 3000K (very, very rare in the USSA) actually uses completely different halides in the burner that produce YELLOW spectrum lighting, and less in the blue spectrum....

 

just like in the 6000K ultinon the halides are again completely different, in this case to accent the blue spectrum...

 

And yes most of the yellow bulbs have dyed glass to further filter out blue spectrum light.

 

3000K HID fogs actually work awesome in crappy weather. I had them on my Jeep. I'd but them on my LGT, but I am so loving my "ricer blue" fogs at the moment

 

D

 

Oooooh so they actually have real 3000k HIDs...in-ter-esting...

[TSiWRX]

Fair enough, you refer to all these great arguments against what Stern says, but I'd really like to see some of it. How about some links?

 

Here, I will defer to brother Drewski - he's much more in-tune with the current state of things, and should be able to provide you with much more "up-to-the-state" information.

 

However, at the risk of being somewhat out-of-date, HID-Planet offers a great introduction section on its "University" section of its Forums. I seem to remember a number of very helpful and technically-oriented articles there, however, it's truly been a while since I last lurked that site (I completed my last full-optics retrofit the year before getting my LGT, so it's been a while, and since I'm of the opinion that the LGT's factory halogens really do very nicely for me, I've been very reluctant to pursue a retrofit here.....).

 

I've been devoting most of my time, of-late, to the laser-countermeasure side of things as my previous jammer recently finally failed on me (weathering), and have honestly lost track of much of the lighting side of my hobby pursuits (both automotive-related as well as with tactical handheld/weapon-mount as well as custom-built flashlights). If only I had more time!

 

My flashlight hobby actually crossed-over very well when it came to being cross-applied to car headlights. The former, due to its limitations of size/power, worked really well to demonstrate things such as optics and reflector design, both of which crucially and vitally affects the output pattern and throw of the light.

 

For that end of things, CandlePowerForums.com is definitely the way to go.

[GTS Jeff]

Here, I will defer to brother Drewski - he's much more in-tune with the current state of things, and should be able to provide you with much more "up-to-the-state" information.

 

However, at the risk of being somewhat out-of-date, HID-Planet offers a great introduction section on its "University" section of its Forums. I seem to remember a number of very helpful and technically-oriented articles there, however, it's truly been a while since I last lurked that site (I completed my last full-optics retrofit the year before getting my LGT, so it's been a while, and since I'm of the opinion that the LGT's factory halogens really do very nicely for me, I've been very reluctant to pursue a retrofit here.....).

 

I've been devoting most of my time, of-late, to the laser-countermeasure side of things as my previous jammer recently finally failed on me (weathering), and have honestly lost track of much of the lighting side of my hobby pursuits (both automotive-related as well as with tactical handheld/weapon-mount as well as custom-built flashlights). If only I had more time!

 

My flashlight hobby actually crossed-over very well when it came to being cross-applied to car headlights. The former, due to its limitations of size/power, worked really well to demonstrate things such as optics and reflector design, both of which crucially and vitally affects the output pattern and throw of the light.

 

For that end of things, CandlePowerForums.com is definitely the way to go.

Err ok, so in your post, you admitted to me that you really can't back your own opinions up, then you proceeded to go off on a tangent about lasers and flashlights to take the heat off yourself? Daaamn, I totally called you out by asking for solid facts and you totally caved.

 

But seriously, c'mon, I'd like to see some reputable links with solid reasoning. You've got me interested and I'm always up for hearing both sides of the argument (provided it's factual and not based on...nothing)

[lookslikeanevo]

^he told yo to go find it over hidplanet.com/forums under the university section

[TSiWRX]

Err ok, so in your post, you admitted to me that you really can't back your own opinions up, then you proceeded to go off on a tangent about lasers and flashlights to take the heat off yourself? Daaamn, I totally called you out by asking for solid facts and you totally caved.

 

But seriously, c'mon, I'd like to see some reputable links with solid reasoning. You've got me interested and I'm always up for hearing both sides of the argument (provided it's factual and not based on...nothing)

 

^ You can see it as "I've caved" if you like, but honestly, I just haven't had time to devote to the two "lighting" portions of my hobby, and I'm telling you the truth in that what I cite would be dated, and that you could get much, much better information from those who are much more actively involved in those hobbies than myself, such as brother Drewski.

 

What I've referenced at HID-Planet, as brother lookslikeanevo clarified, should do well to get you started, regardless, as the information there is more or less "timeless," but for current applications/current retrofits, someone who is actively involved in the hobby (and is almost a guru when it comes to innovative retrofits), like Drew, is going to be a much better person to solicit information from.

 

The illustration of flashlights was simply to say that defining the throw, cut-off, and overall beam-pattern is largely based on the reflector and optics assemblies being properly designed for the light source - as such, HID fog-conversions is neither impossible nor impractical, and certainly also should not produce the unwanted glare that we all so fear both as drivers of "oncoming" vehicles and as lighting enthusiasts. Its mention was not meant to deflect attention, at all, but rather to illustrate that the idea of a "fog pattern" light, like brother Bayley - who works specifically in this area - mentioned, does not exclude HIDs, as long as proper optics are considered.

 

Remember how Stern goes to great lengths to state (and accurately so), that part of the problem with "improper" plug-and-play kits is that they utilize a "halogen"-based optics setup for an HID light source? Bayley's post, along with the complete-optics (and yes, there's even complete "fog"-retrofits) retrofits that were demonstrated on HID-Planet addresses this issue. I believe that someone, quite a while ago, replicated a Lexus-designed HID-fog system, going so far as to alter not only the reflector assembly, but also to cap-off the HID bulb with a design that's similar to what's used in those OEM applications.

 

My intention in mentioning flashlights is to say that it's not that the light source that is inherently flawed, but rather, how the light that is manipulated which is problematic - and can thus be corrected for. It's the same way that when you get a custom flashlight built for you (or build one yourself), you can choose between various lenses in order to produce the type of light dispersion/focus you want, as well as alter the reflector assembly's size and shape to provide for changes in throw distance, etc.

 

Additionally, despite my "time off" from that hobby, it is also very recent advancement in the field of "tactical flashlight" research that has concluded that even "daylight white" may not be ideal for best night-time vision, as our eyes have adapted, over countless years during our evolutionary past, to take very well to the "amber/yellow-hay"-hue of "firelight." So while it is true that white light that pushes off into the blue end of the spectrum (> appx. 5000K) is ill-suited for fog-light use, as brother Drewski cited, there are true-amber/yellow HIDs. Furthermore, should the "color" of whiter (i.e. pushing into the 4600K territory) be corrected for via coatings or caps, that should still render their use suitable for true-fog applications, especially seeing as that many of our incandescents utilize the same type of coatings - be it on the bulb or on the lens - to produce the same effect.

 

That's what I mean by Stern only taking into account aspects of each story that fits his view - and benefits the sale of his products.

 

Certainly, I agree with much of what he's written - and definitely, I have use his commercial services in the past (and will continue to do so) to obtain good bulbs. But I also do not completely agree with everything that he's written, based on just some of the above, in this particular case.

 

---

 

As for the laser countermeasures, that's merely my verbal diarrhea getting going again. I share this character flaw with guys like IWSS. Get us going, and we'll just keep talking.... Basically, if you looked at my past post history here, you'll see that I've slowed-down my posts considerably over the last month or so, mainly as I've needed to concentrate what little free-time I have into researching and actively discussing a replacement laser countermeasure for myself (most of my recent posts have been on this issue, and furthermore, I've only recently came out of lurking at places like RadarDetector.net). I've simply had no time to pursue more along the lines of HIDs.