Kaptan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I want to upgrade my stock stereo on my legacy gt lmtd. I got a quote from a reputable car stereo shop for $1600. This only included adding an Eclipse 5 chanel amp and a ported 12" diamond back sub. This price seems outrageous to me, but is probably on par. They said the stock speakers would not need to be changed. I have never installed anything related to car stereo equipment before. Is there anyone that can offer their help or expertise in the S. Jersey/Philadelphia area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 i would wait before doing this.. $1600 is WAY overpriced... AND... running an amp can be done with the information posted here and a little bit of elbow grease.. I would also reconsider doing the stock speakers. Why pump more power to the speakers (amp) if you can't use it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 They said the stock speakers would not have to be changed!?!?!? They're crazy! There is no way you could power those crappy paper speakers and think they won't blow like that. Most definetly the stock speakers would have to be changed, that would be the FIRST thing i would do. Certainly what is affecting the price is the labor. In the LGT's case, we don't have an option for the DIN units, meaning that the stock deck is all we have. Most likely in order to run an amp, requires speaker level inputs. This is a pain since it requires rerouting a lot of wires to the amp then right back. Also they are talking a 5 channel amp, not too cheap and not sure if its a good choice, I wonder if it will be diverting enough power for the sub. Maybe. The reason there is you won't be losing a set of speakers. If you want the sub on its own amp, you need a set of speaker inputs, meaning no rear speakers. By using a 5 channel amp, you keep all of it. I just can't imagine it really providing the sub with enough juice. Its a tough situation, but i would rather try to wait for a DIN unit, everything will be easier and cheaper by having preouts on the back of the unit. $1600 for one amp, one sub, and although lots of wiring, is a lot, IMO. Depends what the componets are costing you vs how much they are charging for labor. Personally I enjoy doing the car stereo stuff, so i would just do it myself and save a whole ton of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Yeah, that's not just overpriced, but that's enough money for 3 GT upgrades.. I cant imagine how much money they are making off of you. An Eclipse 5 Channel amp and Sub can't cost more than $750.. do your homework on it and PM me back of what the amp, sub and subbox cost. As for the 5 Channel amp, and you are not upping the power for the other door speakers, it seems too excessive for 5 channels on just a sub using a stock headunit. The stock door speakers will eventually blow from the extra wattage you are sending to it IF you are using the 5 channel amp to the door speakers. What you really need at most is: a good 2-channel amp a sub box for the 12" sub a 12" sub of your choice an amp kit (8 guage wire would be enough) some wiring to splice the headunit sound signals (Left and Right) into the amp. You can really do all the wiring yourself, it's not that hard, just takes time and hiding the wires.. the amp can be installed and bolted right onto the back of the rear passenger seat support bars. The sub box can be bolted down onto the chassis in the trunk. Just PM me of what you want out of the car, and I can tell you what to look for and what to expect to pay.. at the end it's always cheaper to install it yourself (if not, learn along the way, unless you dont want to and have plenty of money to throw away, I'll even drive 3 hours to install it and you can pay me for the install money ;) :P ). Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldog1330 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I guess I'm just curious why they'd say a 5 channel amp and not replace the stock speakers. The stock speakers are ok, but not that good, and I'd imagine they would be relatively easy to blow by throwing more power to them from an aftermarket amp. $1600 does sound like a lot, but I bet a 5 channel Eclipse amp isn't cheap (not real familiar with their product line). You only need a single channel or a 2 channel bridged amp to power a subwoofer. Put it this way, how do you think the stock stereo sounds, and what do you think could be improved? Do you want your music louder, clearer, or with more bass (or a combination of the three)? If you let us know what you think the shortcomings are with the system, we can help you out with your decision. Everyone's opinions and needs on audio are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Maybe its a 6 channel amp with 2 channels bridged for the sub Eclipse is usually pretty pricey, but not bad. I also agree you need to identify what you want to improve on, and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptan Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 The things I would like to improve on the stereo are bass output and it could definitely stand to be a bit louder. I just don't like the fact that if you turn the stereo up and add a little bass, it distorts like crazy. I think they broke the $1600 cost down like this: $575 for the amp, $325 for a 12" diamond back sub and sub box, $450 for labor, and $250 for wires, fuses, and removal of the back deck where the free air sub would go. Ideally I would like to upgrade the speakers, add an amp, sub, and install myself. I basically know how everything is to be wired, but removing and reinstalling the interior trim and/or carpet is the part that I am unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 [quote name='Kaptan']The things I would like to improve on the stereo are bass output and it could definitely stand to be a bit louder. I just don't like the fact that if you turn the stereo up and add a little bass, it distorts like crazy. I think they broke the $1600 cost down like this: $575 for the amp, $325 for a 12" diamond back sub and sub box, $450 for labor, and $250 for wires, fuses, and removal of the back deck where the free air sub would go. Ideally I would like to upgrade the speakers, add an amp, sub, and install myself. I basically know how everything is to be wired, but removing and reinstalling the interior trim and/or carpet is the part that I am unsure.[/quote] Get the tear-down menu from one of the posts on this site, it tells you how to take off all the trim pieces and everything in the car...actually getting it off without breaking the clips is the fun part though....but they are usually cheap so whatever if you break on you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldog1330 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 [quote name='Kaptan']The things I would like to improve on the stereo are bass output and it could definitely stand to be a bit louder. I just don't like the fact that if you turn the stereo up and add a little bass, it distorts like crazy. I think they broke the $1600 cost down like this: $575 for the amp, $325 for a 12" diamond back sub and sub box, $450 for labor, and $250 for wires, fuses, and removal of the back deck where the free air sub would go. Ideally I would like to upgrade the speakers, add an amp, sub, and install myself. I basically know how everything is to be wired, but removing and reinstalling the interior trim and/or carpet is the part that I am unsure.[/quote] The car hasn't been out that long, and chances are the stereo shops won't know any more than you about taking the car apart. Just for that reason, you'd be better off doing it yourself since it's your car, and they wouldn't really give a crap if they break a few things when ripping it apart/putting it back together. If you have the knowledge and feel comfortable doing it, order your stuff online and do it yourself :D . By the way, why did you select a free-air sub? I'm just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptan Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 [quote name='aldog1330']By the way, why did you select a free-air sub? I'm just curious.[/quote] Sorry, I probably worded that incorrectly about a free air sub. On the rear deck there is a cutout for the option of adding a free air sub. I was going to use a ported 12" sub and remove that cutout in the rear deck to allow more bass to enter the interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Yeah that price does seem rediculous.. especially since you should focus on just upgrading the front speakers and see how that helps. The stock head unit puts out a decent amount of power to begin with, and I still am having a hard time understanding why people are using LOCs to connect to amps for their components anyway. I can understand LOCs for a sub amp, but when you use them often times you lose quality. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcsine Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 OK, here's car audio 101: You start with digital bits on a CD. When you stick the CD in your car, the thing that takes it in to the slot, mounts it on the spindle, and the laser that reads the bits off the CD and turns them in to digital signals is called the transport. A good transport has a stable loading mechanism, fast spindle, and accurate laser, possibly more than one that reads it twice and does error correction. It's responsible for skip-free play, willingness to read CD-Rs or damaged CDs, and switching tracks quickly. Then you have the DAC, or Digital to Analog converter. It takes the data that the transport reads and turns it in to electric waveforms. These analog waves are then run through a series of electronics to clean them up. This stage is largely responsible for how a CD sounds when you play it. If you can't hear parts or instruments you can hear on your home stereo, this is the problem. A good DAC uses error correction of some kind (be it multibit or oversampling), and is from a respected company like Burr-Brown or Delta. Now that you have clean analog waves, you can amplify them so that the current will be strong enough to move the big magnets in the back of speakers. Stock amplifer circuits are usually just a big MOSFET chip with a heatsink on it. Better amps contain huge transformers or even vacuum tubes. This stage is responsible for volume and spacial clarity. If your bass is not bumpin', your amp is most likely at fault, since woofers take a lot of amplitude to move back and forth. A good amp is properly matched to your speakers' RMS wattage and free from signal-distorting "EQ" functions (or at least has a bypass switch). Next we have the wiring. This may not seem all that important, but it most assuredly is. Cheap tin-plated copper wiring can deliver higher frequency sound to the tweeters a lot faster (in electronic terms) than low signals to the woofers. This makes the whole "singer in the front, drums in the back" effect dissapear. This stage is also where crossovers appear sometimes, which send only the appropriate signals to the appropriate drivers, so you don't hear the sound of your woffer straining like crazy to reproduce a vocalist over the top of the tweeter doing it's job. Good wiring is properly shielded, properly terminated, and made from one pure metal (albeit some folks say silver-plated copper sounds good). Lastly and arguably most important we have the speakers. It's all about frequency response, power handling, and material here. If you have a speaker that can go all the way down to 20Hz without dropping a decibel in volume, but it requires 800 more watts to do it than you're feeding it, it's going to sound like crap. Ditto, in this case, for a 1600W show amp powering the tiny-magnet paper cones that come stock. They will cause your amplifer to "clip", or fail to send all it's signal through the speaker. This causes lost sound. Good speakers are properly matched to the RMS amplifier output, seated correctly, properly baffled, and made from high-strength material. The Legacy system, as far as I can tell, has a substandard DAC, nasty amplifier stage, and slightly above average speakers with very low power handling. The trouble with this is that it's hard to justify paying $300 for a faceplate just to mount a new CD player that isn't 6-disc-in-dash. The DAC and aplifier stage are both soldered to the awesome transport. [url=http://www.nakamichi.com/auto/musicbank/mb_75.htm]Nakamichi[/url] makes the only six-disc-in-dash aftermarket unit I know of, but it's recieved horrible reviews concerning it's reliability. Theoretically, if someone could rewire the stock stereo to function as a transport only, replace the DAC and amp, and stick the whole thing back in the dash, life would be good. [/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmos Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Diamond Back sub? You mean Diamond Audio? $325 sounds high. Which model were you quoted for? You can get a M6 12" off ebay for $150 buy it now which is incredibly low. I'm with the DIY crowd... take a day or two and just do it unless you have absolute faith in the shop and do not want to do the install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTourer Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 [quote name='Kaptan']Is there anyone that can offer their help or expertise in the S. Jersey/Philadelphia area?[/quote] Hey Kaptan, If you need any help with the stereo, I live in the S. NJ/Philly area and wouldn't mind helping you (or anyone else from our area) out. I've done a sub install in my Legacy and have it down to a science heh heh :D George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptan Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 [quote name='cosmos']Diamond Back sub? You mean Diamond Audio? $325 sounds high. Which model were you quoted for? You can get a M6 12" off ebay for $150 buy it now which is incredibly low[/quote] The Diamond audio sub price includes the ported box as well. I think the model they quoted me on was the CM3 12D2. I did talk to the shop again and they told me that included in the price was sound deadening for all 4 doors. I still think it's pricey. George, I sent you a PM, your help would definitely be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 that will certainly jack up the price a bunch....not to mention they now have to take off all the door panels. I am still very surprised that at that point they have the panels off, why not change the speakers. They are dreaming if they think the paper speakers are going to last long hooked on an amp... :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptan Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 [quote name='D-2.5-GT']that will certainly jack up the price a bunch....not to mention they now have to take off all the door panels. I am still very surprised that at that point they have the panels off, why not change the speakers. They are dreaming if they think the paper speakers are going to last long hooked on an amp... :roll:[/quote] Actually the price included the sound deadening. I had neglected to mention that. The guy at the shop said not to worry about the speakers blowing because he had done the same setup on a WRX. I am still skeptical though. This place is suppose to be one of the top ten car audio places in the US. Here's their web address - [url]http://www.s-waves.com[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldog1330 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I still don't get how they think the stock components would sound better with more juice than a set of Infinity or Focal's. I can hear the stock speakers distorting just being powered off the stock head unit, so I can't even imagine how long they will last when you start pumping out some serious wattage to them. The first thing I'm changing when I feel up to ripping off the door panels are the stock speakers - aftermarket replacements are a night and day difference. At least for me anyways, clarity > bass/volume, while the shop seems to be proposing the opposite to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 [quote name='aldog1330']I still don't get how they think the stock components would sound better with more juice than a set of Infinity or Focal's. I can hear the stock speakers distorting just being powered off the stock head unit, so I can't even imagine how long they will last when you start pumping out some serious wattage to them. The first thing I'm changing when I feel up to ripping off the door panels are the stock speakers - aftermarket replacements are a night and day difference. At least for me anyways, clarity > bass/volume, which seems to be what this place is proposing to you.[/quote] My thoughts EXACTLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAckhouse1 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 sweet mercy, yes that is over priced. If anything, shop for the equipment your self (hint take a look at ebay), and then pay for install, if you really don't want to do it. -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'd be more concerned that they claim you don't need to swap out the crap paper surround speakers. Your gonna have a lot of bass and very poor clarity. I would do the surrounds first and then go from their. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAckhouse1 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 [quote name='BoxerGT2.5']I'd be more concerned that they claim you don't need to swap out the crap paper surround speakers. Your gonna have a lot of bass and very poor clarity. I would do the surrounds first and then go from their.[/quote] I also agree, most deffinitely replace the stock speakers. Just to give you an idea, here is what I run in my car JBL 600.1 (600x1 class D) Two Infinity Kappa Perfect 10.1's 1.2 ft^3 custom sealed enclosure Infinity Kappa 693.1i <Rears Infinity Kappa 50.2 <Front components Hifonics Taurus X amp (50x4) Pioneer Premier 430 (Headunit) American Bass Wire Throughout Lightning Audio 1 Farad Strike Cap ^I purchased all of the above for about $1200 new off ebay, and a couple variouse web sites. Install for everything, including making custome panels in my trunk to mounth the amps, was $450 My Total was $1650 -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warnoldscu Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Just curious on the last post by TAckhouse1, what is Pioneer Premier 430? Is that a deck? If so, how did you install that? I'm replacing the fronts in mine, adding a 12" Sub in the back, powering it all with 2 Amps, everything Memphis Audio, but I really want to replace the deck but I don't see an affordable way without a car kit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAckhouse1 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Sorry, I should of mentioned. The Pioneer Premier 430 is a deck (head unit, call it what you like) but it is in my current car (which is not yet a new Legacy. Sorry for an confusion. -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmos Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 [quote name='Kaptan'] The Diamond audio sub price includes the ported box as well. I think the model they quoted me on was the CM3 12D2. I did talk to the shop again and they told me that included in the price was sound deadening for all 4 doors. I still think it's pricey.[/quote] You can buy that sub for $109 from onlinecarstereo. A no frills carpeted box is ~$50. And PLEASE stick a Diamond Audio sub in a sealed enclosure. If you read their manuals and talk to them their subs perfrom best in sealed enclosures. BTW, those M6 MK2s are still on ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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