MarkC Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Look what Mazda has up it's sleeve. [url]http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_102604/newsarticle.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I don't think so. Obviously with the success of the WRX, others were BOUND to follow. Of course, then Mitsu released the EVO here. But these cars didn't fully satisfy people (like me) who wanted luxury with there AWD performance sedan yet kept at a reasonable price. The Legacy GT solved that. Again, there is NO doubt others will jump on the bandwagon. The news of the Mazdaspeed Mazda 6 has been around for a bit already. But, I think the power output is going to be rated somewhere around what the LGT is now. Will they sell, probably. Does Mazda have the experience in AWD and rally racing like Subaru....absolutely NOT. And that might hinder sales a bit. Also, keep in mind, don't think Subaru won't counter. Just after this MS Mazda 6 is released, Subaru will probably debut the Legacy STI with (my estimation) 310+ hp and tq, 6 speed manual, 18 inch wheels, Brembo brakes, stiffer and lower suspension and more aggressive styling. It's the one-upmanship game. Plus with Mazda's testing the prototype car at 0-100 lm/h at 6.6 seconds (that's roughly 0-60 in 6.2 seconds) it doesn't sound fast enough to compete. Keep in mind too...as it stand the current Mazda 6s with the most common option packages runs $27,500 and pushes mid $28K already. Add AWD and the turbocharger and larger wheels and whatnot, it'll be a miracle if it's priced under $30K Actually, I can't see how it could. It would probably be closer to $31-32K A solid $2-3K above the LGT and probably right about where a Legacy STI would be priced. And if Mazda's preproduction tests are accurate, the current LGT is already faster (may not handle as well stock though) but the Legacy STI would absolutely smoke it for basically the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 [quote name='Driver72']I don't think so. Obviously with the success of the WRX, others were BOUND to follow. Of course, then Mitsu released the EVO here. But these cars didn't fully satisfy people (like me) who wanted luxury with there AWD performance sedan yet kept at a reasonable price. The Legacy GT solved that. Again, there is NO doubt others will jump on the bandwagon. The news of the Mazdaspeed Mazda 6 has been around for a bit already. But, I think the power output is going to be rated somewhere around what the LGT is now. Will they sell, probably. Does Mazda have the experience in AWD and rally racing like Subaru....absolutely NOT. And that might hinder sales a bit. Also, keep in mind, don't think Subaru won't counter. Just after this MS Mazda 6 is released, Subaru will probably debut the Legacy STI with (my estimation) 310+ hp and tq, 6 speed manual, 18 inch wheels, Brembo brakes, stiffer and lower suspension and more aggressive styling. It's the one-upmanship game. Plus with Mazda's testing the prototype car at 0-100 lm/h at 6.6 seconds (that's roughly 0-60 in 6.2 seconds) it doesn't sound fast enough to compete. Keep in mind too...as it stand the current Mazda 6s with the most common option packages runs $27,500 and pushes mid $28K already. Add AWD and the turbocharger and larger wheels and whatnot, it'll be a miracle if it's priced under $30K Actually, I can't see how it could. It would probably be closer to $31-32K A solid $2-3K above the LGT and probably right about where a Legacy STI would be priced. And if Mazda's preproduction tests are accurate, the current LGT is already faster (may not handle as well stock though) but the Legacy STI would absolutely smoke it for basically the same price.[/quote] Why are you even worried? According to the stats listed on the page....it does 0-100kmh in 6.6. Your precious Legacy is still around a second faster... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 D.M., as stated, I personally am not worried and don't think Subie is either. And, even if it's stats are "faked" to throw competitors off, and it is faster than an LGT who cares...it'll be priced higher (based on current Masda 6 pricing) and that gives Subaru just one more reason to bring a Legacy STi to the states to put the MS Mazda 6 back on the porch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retslo Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I will most definitely take a look at it when it comes out. I always loved Mazda transmissions (quite unlike Subaru). And proposed specs are higher than Subaru Legacy thus I don't think is going to be in 6.6 sec range. It's good to have choices and competition - maybe Legacy STI or better WRX will be coming out. It's too bad we don't get any good cars from other European carmakers (Peugot, Citroen, AlfaRomeo...) Ret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I'm with ya, Ret... it's good for us enthusiast consumers to have all these cool cars coming out. Sure beats the barren wasteland of 20 years ago... The Mazda would interest me if they did the wagon too. But even if they did, there's no way I would wait for it. I found what I want in the LGT wagon right now (minus decent tires and a slightly firmer suspension). Had it (and a wagon variant) come out 6 months ago, it might be a tougher choice, because Mazda usually has a pretty good idea of how to make a car that handles and drives quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 WHO ??? Zoom Zoom What??? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it.  Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 The European model is specced at 260PS (256hp) and 280 lb-ft. of torque. The US model is targeted for 274hp and 280 lb-ft. That being said, I do see this as a legitimate GT competitor, but I don't think it brings the juice to really beat the GT. No wagon (or hatch!) option, a 100:0 FWD biased AWD system, and a goofy ducting system to its TMIC (probably so that they wouldn't have to use a hood scoop and look like they copied Subaru). The drive will tell, but likely many Mazda dealers will go insane and not allow test drives. If they had at least brought the hatch to the game, they'd have something unique, but no, they had to go all conformist at the last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Sedan only? Piffle. What's the matter with people and their lack of love for wagon devotees? Speaking of worrisome Subaru things, I saw something in Car & Driver that gave me a start, and had me with title and keys in my hand, ready to head for my nearest Dodge dealer. It was something to the effect that implied that the Magnum wagon was going to be getting AWD and 6-speed manual transmission. This is in fact not the case, but that would be a really cool wagon, especially in black. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 [quote name='retslo']I will most definitely take a look at it when it comes out. I always loved Mazda transmissions (quite unlike Subaru). And proposed specs are higher than Subaru Legacy thus I don't think is going to be in 6.6 sec range. It's good to have choices and competition - maybe Legacy STI or better WRX will be coming out. It's too bad we don't get any good cars from other European carmakers (Peugot, Citroen, AlfaRomeo...) Ret[/quote] The 6.6 seconds is to 100 km/h. That would mean it would hit 60 mph in about 6.2 seconds. It will be a nice car I'm sure. But the current 4 banger Mazda 6 weighs 3045 pounds already. Add the intercooler, turbo, all the plumbing, larger wheels, larger brakes, stiffer suspension, body kit parts, and you add another 125-150 pounds would be my guess. Then add the AWD system (200-250 pounds) and the car would most likely be in the 3450 pound range. That's pushing 100 pounds heavier than the LGT Limited. It also has slightly more aggressive gears than the LGT, but an axle ratio that much taller 3.61:1 in 1st through 4th gears and only 3.095 in 5th and 6th gears. Compare that to the 4.11:1 in the LGT in all gears. I think Mazda's claim of 6.6 to 62.1 mph (again about 6.2 to 60 mph) might be a bit conservative. It might be a couple ticks quicker, but don't see it even overtaking the LGT in acceleration. I'm sure it would handle a bit better though. I wasn't aware it was going to be a FWD based AWD system. That kinda sucks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatV8 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 The concept of this vehicle was a hatch, but no hatch for production? wierd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwantaLGTsti Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I think mfg's tend to give conservative estimates intially so I would expect a sub-6s 0-60 given the torque ratings. I too am disappointed they went for a sedan instead of the hatchback. Hatch seemed like the sure winner given the existing Mazda6 hatchback which looks as good as a sedan and is far more useful. FWD biased AWD, say it ain't so! Hopefully this is some sort of journalistic mistake. I think the design is sharper and more aggressive than the Legacy so it has something going for it IMO. (and from what I understand, the existing 6 has a tight suspension, ahem). Ok, time to release the Legacy STi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 [quote name='IwantaLGTsti']I think mfg's tend to give conservative estimates intially so I would expect a sub-6s 0-60 given the torque ratings. I too am disappointed they went for a sedan instead of the hatchback. Hatch seemed like the sure winner given the existing Mazda6 hatchback which looks as good as a sedan and is far more useful. FWD biased AWD, say it ain't so! Hopefully this is some sort of journalistic mistake. I think the design is sharper and more aggressive than the Legacy so it has something going for it IMO. (and from what I understand, the existing 6 has a tight suspension, ahem). Ok, time to release the Legacy STi.[/quote] a fundamental difference is that the mazda 6 was conceived as a FWD car first, on a global FWD platform with AWD added in later. the legacy chassis was designed from the outset to be AWD and to have the mechanicals and the center differentials fully integrated into the frame. it also means less weight because it's an integrated system not an add-on afterwards. obviously, i think the mazda 6 will be heavier and no doubt more expensive. and fortunately for us, thank god it's here. it means more inclination from SofA to release an STi-spec legacy or to bump the power even more in future years to keep selling the car. they've been pushing the ad campaigns with 250hp. now that mazda has mroe, what good is that campaign? both companies are appealing to number crunching car enthusiasts and rightly so. in general, it's the demographic that other people turn to for car advice, so in a marketing sense, it's of extreme importance to market to car guys because most of the time we're distilling advice to others. i love the new mazda 6. it's cool. i might give up one of the GTs for the m'speed 6 if it handles well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 They can keep pushing the 250 hp campaigns, because the MS Mazda 6 is not going to be here for about a year right? I think it will be a 2006 model. I think the reason they didn't make it in the hatch is structural integrity and strength. With the performance of that car combined with AWD, it might twist the chassis a bit too much in a hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='Driver72']They can keep pushing the 250 hp campaigns, because the MS Mazda 6 is not going to be here for about a year right? I think it will be a 2006 model. I think the reason they didn't make it in the hatch is structural integrity and strength. With the performance of that car combined with AWD, it might twist the chassis a bit too much in a hatch.[/quote] no matter what, the mazda 6 is cool. the mazdaspeed 6 & the legacy GT are fantastic alternatives to the altima/maxima & camrys. let's face it, that's the car class of the legacy GT, but it's so fast that it gets compared to other cars. with the mazdaspeed 6 coming out, it will keep up the innovation from subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 As I stated, you betcha. If the Mazdaspeed 6 is even within a couple tenths of the LGT in acceleration and handles anywhere close to as well, or better. That will pretty much "force" Subaru to release a Legacy STI here just to one up them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 To be honest....If your worried about the mazda 6, I'd love to know what your thinkin of the AWD G35? I'm not worried. I'll take the Boxer engine over a inline 4 anyday and twice on sundays. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='BoxerGT2.5']To be honest....If your worried about the mazda 6, I'd love to know what your thinkin of the AWD G35? I'm not worried. I'll take the Boxer engine over a inline 4 anyday and twice on sundays.[/quote] i love the idea of the G35 but i think its execution is typical nissan. you can read into that. (people complain about subie interiors? go sit in a nissan product). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='lemming'][quote name='BoxerGT2.5']To be honest....If your worried about the mazda 6, I'd love to know what your thinkin of the AWD G35? I'm not worried. I'll take the Boxer engine over a inline 4 anyday and twice on sundays.[/quote] i love the idea of the G35 but i think its execution is typical nissan. you can read into that. (people complain about subie interiors? go sit in a nissan product).[/quote] I have....wasn't thrilled with the 350Z when I was buying the 8. G35 is a different ball game. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwantaLGTsti Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='Driver72']I think the reason they didn't make it in the hatch is structural integrity and strength. With the performance of that car combined with AWD, it might twist the chassis a bit too much in a hatch.[/quote] Yep, although it was out of preference rather than strict necessity. AWD hatchbacks with even more power have been built in the past. [i] Greatly improved body rigidity A rigid four-door body design was chosen in combination with the introduction of the high-power engine to successfully embody the concept of the ultimate Zoom-Zoom sedan when it comes to handling, a fundamental element of driving pleasure. Individual body assemblies were also refined to deliver optimised body rigidity. Overall, torsional rigidity has been improved by approximately 40 per cent over the Mazda6. Specific actions taken to increase body rigidity include: - A diagonal brace structure was added behind the rear seatbacks, with four angled members that suppress diagonal displacement and displacement of the rear damper mount[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDubbs Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Why worry about a competitor? More choices out there means less a lower percentage of drivers unfamiliar with the [i]limits [/i]of AWD wrapping their cars around poles and raising the ins rates on my LGT. Though I suppose if you race and it will be included in your class, I guess concern is in order... :? No, the name has nothing to do with bragging about 20 inch wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='BoxerGT2.5'][quote name='lemming'][quote name='BoxerGT2.5']To be honest....If your worried about the mazda 6, I'd love to know what your thinkin of the AWD G35? I'm not worried. I'll take the Boxer engine over a inline 4 anyday and twice on sundays.[/quote] i love the idea of the G35 but i think its execution is typical nissan. you can read into that. (people complain about subie interiors? go sit in a nissan product).[/quote] I have....wasn't thrilled with the 350Z when I was buying the 8. G35 is a different ball game.[/quote] usually the trend with nissan is that they get it right the second time around, so i'll bet the 2nd generation G35 hits the bullseye where i honestly feel that the first generation G35, while throwing down the gauntlet, still misses by a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='BoxerGT2.5']To be honest....If your worried about the mazda 6, I'd love to know what your thinkin of the AWD G35? I'm not worried. I'll take the Boxer engine over a inline 4 anyday and twice on sundays.[/quote] Nahh, I've stated twice I'm not "worried" about the Mazdaspeed 6. I think it's good, it very well should help get a Legacy STI over here. With it's FWD based AWD, I don't think it'll be that great. G35x is in another price league, and with auto only in the G35X it tells you that they never intended the G35X to be a true sport sedan, but rather an alternative for the snowbelt folk. G35X with 6MT and the new 277 hp/ 270 tq rating, would be sweet, if I were shopping in the $35K price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 [quote name='Driver72'][quote name='BoxerGT2.5']To be honest....If your worried about the mazda 6, I'd love to know what your thinkin of the AWD G35? I'm not worried. I'll take the Boxer engine over a inline 4 anyday and twice on sundays.[/quote] Nahh, I've stated twice I'm not "worried" about the Mazdaspeed 6. I think it's good, it very well should help get a Legacy STI over here. With it's FWD based AWD, I don't think it'll be that great. G35x is in another price league, and with auto only in the G35X it tells you that they never intended the G35X to be a true sport sedan, but rather an alternative for the snowbelt folk. G35X with 6MT and the new 277 hp/ 270 tq rating, would be sweet, if I were shopping in the $35K price range.[/quote] To be honest...the MSP6 will have to be in the 32-35K range. With a turbo and AWD they are not gonna make that thing cheaper than their baby the Rx-8...no way possible. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Yeah, I guessed (above) a starting price of $31K for it. Fully decked out you are probably right...it will run $34-35K. Then we can post threads like...."$34K for a Mazda with a retrofitted AWD system to there FWD based car...what?" Yeah, I'd get a G35x first (well if they ever make the manual for it) Or a $32-34K Legacy STI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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