hyteck9 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Hi there. I have about 13k miles on my spec.b. its had several long highway drives this summer to different states to see race events and such... Anyway, It feels like I have to "ride the clutch" more and more to get the car rolling without stalling. I'm trying to figure out reasons for this and could use some questions answered: Has anyone else experienced this?? Does subaru use a CDV (clutch delay valve)? Is every diff. and xfer case work via "hydro-lock?"? I'm thinking perhaps my diff and xfer case fluid is some how collecting lots of moisture?? wondering if a flush and fill might cure the problem or replacing the fluid with a higher weight?? thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nos Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Does it feel like it's getting more "grabby?" If so, that's something that I've found to be common with my subies. It think it has to do with the flywheel starting to warp a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyteck9 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 Hmmm.. I think its the opposite of "grabby". I have a gravel drive, and when I used to pull out, if I let the clutch out at a normal rate, the tires would spit a little gravel before moving the car forward. the AWD drivetrain "hooked up" nicely. (not harsh, just predicatable) Now if I want to have that same feeling, I have to rev the engine twice as high (2500 RPM) and let the clutch out more slowly... ( or engage the clutch half way, push it back in, blip the throttle again and let the clutch out agian. ) to accomplish the same thing. its "feels" like all the power is getting used up just tring to "spin up" the AWD components before the tires ever get a chance to turn...??? Believe me, I'm splitting hairs here. its not like the car is undrivable, I'm just insanely particular about my cars and insist that they be perfect machines at all times. I imagine if I took it to the dealer they would just say it was "broken in" but I want to try and maintain that crisp AWD action of a brand new car if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Hi there. I have about 13k miles on my spec.b. its had several long highway drives this summer to different states to see race events and such... Anyway, It feels like I have to "ride the clutch" more and more to get the car rolling without stalling. I'm trying to figure out reasons for this and could use some questions answered: Has anyone else experienced this?? Does subaru use a CDV (clutch delay valve)? Is every diff. and xfer case work via "hydro-lock?"? I'm thinking perhaps my diff and xfer case fluid is some how collecting lots of moisture?? wondering if a flush and fill might cure the problem or replacing the fluid with a higher weight?? thoughts anyone? 1) your stock 18" wheels are anchors, they weigh too much, hence you are riding on the clutch more often. Switch to lighter rims, that will be a world of a difference. 2) I dont think there's a CDV, I think this was discussed over 2 years ago. 3) I dont think I understand your question on the diffs. But to clarify the functions, the center and rear diffs on a 5MT are viscous limited, while the front remains as an open diff. 4) As for the fluids, many of us just run the typical redline 75w90 NS [preferred] or 75w90 (which I use and has the additional modifier that makes it more slippery). Either is really fine for our cars as per Redline's recommendations. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyteck9 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thanks Keefe, that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Hmmm.. I think its the opposite of "grabby". I have a gravel drive, and when I used to pull out, if I let the clutch out at a normal rate, the tires would spit a little gravel before moving the car forward. the AWD drivetrain "hooked up" nicely. (not harsh, just predicatable) Now if I want to have that same feeling, I have to rev the engine twice as high (2500 RPM) and let the clutch out more slowly... ( or engage the clutch half way, push it back in, blip the throttle again and let the clutch out agian. ) to accomplish the same thing. its "feels" like all the power is getting used up just tring to "spin up" the AWD components before the tires ever get a chance to turn...??? Believe me, I'm splitting hairs here. its not like the car is undrivable, I'm just insanely particular about my cars and insist that they be perfect machines at all times. I imagine if I took it to the dealer they would just say it was "broken in" but I want to try and maintain that crisp AWD action of a brand new car if I can. I know exactly what you are talking about. I feel the same thing on mine. I describe it as the clutch not grabbing as much as it used to. Its not slipping (I dont think) but just not as "crisp" take up as before. I also *think* the clutch pedal travel to engagement is longer. Dealer told me clutch is fine and tha t because it is a hydraulic system, no adjustment. Could it be that the clutch is wearing and thus normal? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyteck9 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 hard to say if it is the clutch or not. My "guess" right now is that the center-diff fluid has gone watery somehow and it takes longer for the "hydro-lock" effect of the viscous coupling design to take effect. I'm going to try a flush and fill and see if that does the trick. Any pref between Redline and Royal Purple anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Remember, the viscous coupling is just for limited slip. Unless you are breaking traction, it does nothing. The 50/50 split is the result of good ol' gears that are part of the transmission. Only when one axle spins at a certain % faster than the other does the viscous coupling come into play. The viscous coupling is also sealed, so there is no way to change the fluid on it. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMull123 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 It sounds just like the clutch is wearing. I've been through 1 clutch already and mine went through just like you're sayin. I'm not sayin you're near replacement, I'm just sayin it's gettin broken in, worn, whichever way you want to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Well you could always test drive a used 05 or a 06 left in stock and compare If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 It sounds just like the clutch is wearing. I've been through 1 clutch already and mine went through just like you're sayin. I'm not sayin you're near replacement, I'm just sayin it's gettin broken in, worn, whichever way you want to put it. Im at over 52,000 miles with an occasional drag starts, plenty of autox and track days, and a lot daily driving around the DC-metro area for just over 2 years. Clutch is holding up just fine. I dont expect to change my clutch until I hit around 90,000 miles or so. His 13,000 miles shouldnt have that brutal, but then again, I dont know what are the driving habits that would lead up to the point of a laggy/slushy clutch. I know and seen some people who are really abusive to the clutch without even knowing it. The worst case was this kid who brags he knows how to drive and drives well and went through 3 transmissions and a few clutchs all within 10,000 miles on his 2002 WRX and he blames Subaru for having that crappy of a tranny... yea.. riiiight. [long story short of me and my brother's WRX were bought new back in 2002. My WRX with drag, autox and track days with a stage 2 was still on the stock clutch saw over 67,000+ miles while my brother's stage 2 WRX is well over 98,000+ miles and still on the stock clutch and tranny.. it really depends on your driving habits] Im not saying that hyteck9 is abusive to the clutch or is doing something that can make the rest of the tranny slushy, but I can't rule that out either. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukindada Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 As Keefe mentioned switch to a lighter wheel, it really does make a difference. There are 18's out there that will save you 6lbs @ each corner:) Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIZARD Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Right keefe. You really can't rule anything out unless you know the person's daily/track driving habits. And yes, that person may think they're a "good" driver but compared to who? They may be riding the clutch and not even realize what they're doing wrong. I'm not saying that hytek is doing any of this, it's just tough to isolate or give sound advice to someone over the net if their fundamentals are AFU to start with. No flame intended what so ever here. lizard. Stage2.5376, TDC ProTune,blah blah blahhhh and....Alky/H20 injection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyteck9 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 No offense taken guys. This is my first subbie and I'm still learning about the AWD stuff. I'm used to RWD. From what I have read here it seems like the "expert" I have been listening to offline about how AWD works is a bit off the mark! So I'm still sifting threw the confusion. As for driving, I would like to "think" I am a good driver. I have attended many driving schools and the spec.b has definately had its share of track time up here in Ohio. Mid-Ohio race track, Auto-X, Nelson Ledges, etc.. I have not had it to the drag strip yet. Again from what I have heard the only way to get a great time is to rev the poor car to 6K and dump the clutch and I just don't know that I have the heart to do that... (The nearest drag strip is also about an hour away and that is an expensive tow should I break something) So thanks for all your input, and please feel free to offer up as much education as you want to give! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 No offense taken guys. This is my first subbie and I'm still learning about the AWD stuff. I'm used to RWD. From what I have read here it seems like the "expert" I have been listening to offline about how AWD works is a bit off the mark! So I'm still sifting threw the confusion. As for driving, I would like to "think" I am a good driver. I have attended many driving schools and the spec.b has definately had its share of track time up here in Ohio. Mid-Ohio race track, Auto-X, Nelson Ledges, etc.. I have not had it to the drag strip yet. Again from what I have heard the only way to get a great time is to rev the poor car to 6K and dump the clutch and I just don't know that I have the heart to do that... (The nearest drag strip is also about an hour away and that is an expensive tow should I break something) So thanks for all your input, and please feel free to offer up as much education as you want to give! There's your answer. You're just experiencing a lot of the tranny power loss. I remember when I went from a WRX to my friend's E36 M3 with Hoosiers for an autox.. let's just put it this way, I warmed up his rear tires way more than I need to at the start line, say about 10 seconds worth You certainly cant use an AWD launch method on a RWD car, it doesnt work the same way. AWD turbo cars without 2-step launch control will require you to do it manually by build boost using the rally launch method. You can PM more about that if you wish to know how to do it. You dont need to dump the clutch at 6k, all you will be doing is smoking the stock clutch to hell. With rally launching, I get your typical 1.7s to 1.8 seconds in the 60', and getting 14.2 to 14.3 @ 95 mph in my stock powered GT Limited. All I upgraded was suspension, wheels, and tires. Car weighs in at 3475 @ 7/8 tank full and me tipping the scale at 150 lbs. I could probably get the 60' times down to 1.6s and getting a final of 14.1, but I dont like to blip more than 4k rpms to get the car rolling. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyteck9 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Xenonk, Works great! thx for the info! took a few times to get a feel for it... but I understand what you mean... kind of a rolling/pusling throttle that you catch on the upswing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Xenonk, Works great! thx for the info! took a few times to get a feel for it... but I understand what you mean... kind of a rolling/pusling throttle that you catch on the upswing. turbo cars without boost dont have the torque.. gotta build some boost along the way, you basically got the idea. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Please do explain more you have a PM. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I have tried this trick many times. I never smoked a clutch yet and I still light up the fronts. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I have tried this trick many times. I never smoked a clutch yet and I still light up the fronts. that's cuz your car is squatting now and it's lifting up the fronts. Time to get stiffer rear sways or add more front caster some how Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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