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AT vs MT performance?

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NSFW Grand Master

NSFW

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I'm looking for an 2005 LGT wagon, with a manual transition, and I'm not finding many in my area. In fact, I'm finding none right now. So this leaves me wondering, how much does performance suffer with the auto tranny?

 

I've seen a figure of 7.1 seconds for 0-60 but it's not clear whether that was really the newer turbo GT or perhaps the non-turbo GT from the near before.

 

Does anyone know the real scoop? 0-60, quarter-mile times, etc?

 

Thanks!

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WRXGuyInVegas Collaborator

WRXGuyInVegas

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I test drove both before buying....

 

There's a SIGNIFIGANT increase in performance with the manual. Some people just want to cruise, and dont mind the lack in performance compared to the stick, but the Auto is quite laggy...

 

However, the 5AT is nice, compared to a 4AT....1

 

I can't give you exact figures, but you really should test drive both also, and see how you like them. I personally wasn't thrilled with the auto, but friggin' LOVED the manual...

"Insert Signature Here"
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wukindada Grand Master

wukindada

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NSFW.....search a little, this topic has raged for some time:rolleyes:

 

Stock vs Stock there is about a 1/2 sec dif.

 

car magazines do not powerbrake AT equipped cars. To be fair it would be like launching the 5MT @ idle speed. No one does that..... now powerbraking the AT is not something you should be doing on a daily basis.

How many MT guys are launching @ 4-4500 on a daily basis?

Now once you are Protuned @ Stg II the 2 cars are about identical 0-60 with the edge going to the MT in the 1/4 mile but only buy about 2 tenths .

Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!!
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MilesA Veteran

MilesA

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The auto does not launch as fast as the manual from a standing start. There is a period during which the boost is building up causing the car feels a bit slow on the take-off.

 

If you were talking about mid-range passing power I don't think there is that much difference if you get the 5-EAT and put it in sport mode.

 

With the auto, you also would be missing that extra dimension of control the manual gives you.

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andrew_j Collaborator

andrew_j

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The real concern is not #'s but how it feels to you. To my wife/I we thought the auto was not 100% matched to the power curve of the turbo motor. However in stop/go traffic it trumps a manual as power is irrelevant.

 

Auto's can be very good but in Subaru.........well you decide.

 

With regards to the manual I have driven many better tranny's than the LGT's.

 

However that all being said I love the car and likely would either tranny.

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KTM 525 Experienced

KTM 525

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Now once you are Protuned @ Stg II the 2 cars are about identical 0-60 with the edge going to the MT in the 1/4 mile but only buy about 2 tenths .

 

This is true the more these cars are modded the smaller the gap becomes. When somebody FINALLY comes out with a good performing torque converter the 5EAT will rule the ET database in the Motorsports forum.

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harrydog Enthusiast

harrydog

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The real concern is not #'s but how it feels to you. To my wife/I we thought the auto was not 100% matched to the power curve of the turbo motor.

 

When I bought my '06 Outback I needed an A/T because my wife will sometimes drive this car. I test drove both the XT and the 3.0 H6 and I agree that the A/T is not well matched to the turbo motor. Going in I was leaning towards the XT, having owned several turbo powered cars in the past including a WRX, but after driving it, I went with the H6.

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Scotty Veteran

Scotty

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7 seconds is a little slow. That's about what you get if you don't power brake.

 

The 5EAT is still better than other transmissions out there. The Lexus IS350 with a 6 speed auto is worse. While it is smooth on the shift, the computer pretty much takes control even in manual mode. If you floor it in 6th, it'll automatically downshift even though you didn't tell it to and it will upshift if you hit the rev limiter. The 5EAT will hold whatever gear you are in unless the engine rpm gets too low. it won't even upshift when you are bouncing off the rev limiter. The sport mode is quite good also since it will downshift as you brake into corners.

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NSFW Grand Master

NSFW

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A couple things I should have said the first time around:

 

I did searches on this topic for about an hour before I posted this, and while I found tons of the usual "AT sucks, MT FTW" stuff, I didn't see any numbers, and I'm looking for numbers. I am familiar with the qualitative differences (of course the 5AT will be an improvement over the 4AT and not quite as good as the 5MT) but I'm looking for quantitative differences.

 

Thanks deimos for posting some numbers. :)

 

I will definitely test drive an AT before I buy one for sure, I am basically wondering how long I should hold out for an MT before I give up and start taking the AT idea seriously (or if I just plain shouldn't go there (I don't really want to)).

 

And FWIW, I figure I'm going to abuse my drivetrain equally regardless of whether it's AT or MT. So as long as the reviewers abuse their cars equally, then it's still and apples-to-apples comparison.

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Guest

Guest

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Don't give up, you'll find a used one eventually.

 

Please go to subaru.com, send comments and bitch about no manual GT wagons. They need to hear us.

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Mblock66 Mentor

Mblock66

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Honestly,

 

This thread has been covered over and over. The MT will defend the MT and the AT guys will defend the AT.

 

Simple fact is that stage I with a powerbrake I was pulling 5.3 0-60 and stock 5.9-6.2

 

That is with a limited and me at 230 lbs in the car.

 

Now if you wanna talk stage II it runs like 4.6 0-60 now with a power brake after my protune and all the other goodies.

 

In fact Vf40 to Vf40 at the track the AT puts down faster 60' times too at stage II. So whoever doesn't think it can launch as hard or harder then the MT is very wrong.

 

I am not trying to start up the argument but I back wukindada that as you mod more the gap closes. At stage II they are very equal machines.

 

I am going to be VERY close to running high 12's with my setup now on stock turbo in my AT......

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wukindada Grand Master

wukindada

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Just to clarify things also, The 3 major car magazines do not powerbrake there cars while testing.

I subscribe to all 3 and have read many times how the testers will not powerbrake a AT vehicle;)

Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!!
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Scotty Veteran

Scotty

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Car and Driver Road Test Digest: Acceleration:...With automatic-transmission cars, brake torquing (applying the throttle while holding the vehicle with the brakes) is used when beneficial to produce the best launches and acceleration.

 

Road & Track: drop-clutch starts... Doesn't mention autos but if they're dumping the clutch, I bet you they are brake torquing.

 

I don't read MotorTrend so don't know what they do, but I'm sure it's similar.

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deimos Mentor

deimos

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Car and Driver Road Test Digest: Acceleration:...With automatic-transmission cars, brake torquing (applying the throttle while holding the vehicle with the brakes) is used when beneficial to produce the best launches and acceleration.

 

Road & Track: drop-clutch starts... Doesn't mention autos but if they're dumping the clutch, I bet you they are brake torquing.

 

I don't read MotorTrend so don't know what they do, but I'm sure it's similar.

 

+1

 

 

In any case. With the stock 5eat, powerbraked runs are in the mid 6s and non are in the low 7s. Same with the MT easier launch mid 5s, hard launch low 5s.

 

gtech numbers are usually a tick or two quicker especially 0-60.

 

Both will be fun cars and as mentioned if you have a staged LGT of any transmission its gonna be a blast.

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FormerSTI Driver Rookie

FormerSTI Driver

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I went with the 5EAT after driving a MT all my life for the following reasons:

 

1. Didn't like the feel of the MT in the GT. Throws were long (yes a shortshifter would take car of this issue), but the gearbox was very vague. Maybe because I was coming from an STI, but I could not deal with the vaguness. Also, the clutch was not very smooth (but then maybe I just needed more time with the car).

 

2. I drive in lots of stop and go traffic. If this was a Honda type gearbox, then I maybe I could live with it, but reasons listed above, I would tire of it quickly.

 

On the other hand, the MT is better suited to the power delivery of the motor because there's not a lot oomph downlow. With the 5EAT, I put in sport or manual mode (seems to take car of partially address this problem) whenever I do any spirited driving or lots of merging.

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john_knoxville Proficient

john_knoxville

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I did searches on this topic for about an hour before I posted this, and while I found tons of the usual "AT sucks, MT FTW" stuff, I didn't see any numbers, and I'm looking for numbers.

:orly: Learn to search, BEYOTCH!

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8427&highlight=5eat+0-60

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35215&highlight=0-60+auto

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22568&highlight=5mt+5eat

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4371&highlight=5mt+5eat

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11701&highlight=auto+manual

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7286&highlight=auto+manual

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deimos Mentor

deimos

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6.0 to 60Gtech Pro SS when stock & brk tq'd. The Pro ss was only off .2sec in the 1/4 it's pretty dead on in 0-60 #'s.

 

MT 0-60 w/ Gtech is like 5.0X so its not 100% vs classic instrumented tests but pretty close and a good tool for comparision. Dunno if that run was an SS or not cant find the thread..damn search

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SLegacy99 Grand Master

SLegacy99

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Isn't the point of a forum to provide input and dialog to questions asked?

 

All this do a search BS is a load of crap, it you don't want post a response just don't. Sorry about the rant but its been coming for a long time.

 

 

Agreed.

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