John M Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 So I'm ready to buy now, and I'm pretty specific about what I want: a red Limited with manual trans. I'd also prefer the wing, short shifter, and auto-dim mirror but they're not requirements. Instead of ordering and waiting, I found one at Folger Subaru in Charlotte NC. I emailed them through their website. Here's our conversation: ----- Their first contact ----- [quote] John, Thanks for your email. As I'm sure you've noticed... We just happen to have a 5 speed Garnet Red GT LTD here in stock. At the moment our finance manager is using it for her demo, but it only has around 3k miles on it. MSRP: $29,771 Demo Price: $27,932 (I threw in the Paint Protectant we usually add to the price for free. I like to do that for all my internet buyers) Those are prices before tax, tag, fees. I went as agressive as I could on the pricing because of it having a few miles on it. In case you've never looked into demos before they are registered as new cars and the warranty starts from the mileage when you buy the car so it's just like buying a 0 mile car. [/quote] That'd be a good starting point for a car with single-digit mileage but over 3000? I'm supposed to be thankful for that? I replied, expressing my concern over the mileage but I said give me a quote anyway and I may decide to buy it. I gave them the full info on my trade too so it could be included in the quote. I explained how I once sold cars so I know how things work, and that I know the sales manager of the local Subaru place but wanted to give them a try first. Their reply didn't give me a price at all, and basically blew me off: [quote] If you would prefer a car right off the truck at invoice your best bet would definitely be from a dealership down there that you have friends at. I'm afraid it just doesn't make sense for us to sell the car we have here for less than invoice. As much as I'd love to have another unit under my belt we just don't have a hard time selling these cars so losing money on them is a no go with management. The car is here for if you want to get it without waiting. For all intents and purposes it IS a new car. If you want to go the order route with your friends down there I completely understand.[/quote] Maybe they should have thought of that before tacking on 3000+ miles on a brand new $30,000 car. So fine, I won't give them a dime. I'll keep looking - I've already found another one in Orlando FL and I happen to be headed that way next week for a Phil Collins concert. I wouldn't mind driving home in a new car if we work something out. Of course, that's assuming they ever answer the inquiry I put in at their website... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Avoid them. They'll probably do everything in their power to unload that used one on you, and if you don't take that one, then they'll probably make it a crappy buying experience. I know, this is happening to me at another dealership. (My temp tags are expired and they're now taking their sweet time to get me the offical tags.) If Subaru wants to become a luxury brand, then they better start doing an overhaul of their dealerships - they're awful. - Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Yeah, thats really shaddy, a "new" car with 3000 miles. I don't think so. They should be selling that car for around 25k or maybe 24k since its probably been beaten on for sure. Get yourself a new car with less then 50 miles close to inovice and you should be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssaldana Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 3k miles? is he serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalGT Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 If you know what you want the extra time waiting is well worth it. I waited 7 weeks for mine and I am extreemly happy that I waited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargleblaster Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 You need to reconsider his original offer. How many dealerships would give you a car with 3k miles *and* free Paint Protectant, all for a price above invoice? I don't see how you can pass that up!! The car's already broken in for you, and you're 3k miles closer to getting rid of the crappy RE-92's. I bet if you ask really nicely, the finance manager will smoke in it a few times for you, too. Founder - The Harry F. Johnson Memorial Fund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 JohnM - Call Folger and ask for Tim in sales (He's crazyhorse on NASIOC), tell him Opie sent ya and let him work you a deal on that car. He'll take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted September 22, 2004 Author Share Posted September 22, 2004 If his last name is McKenzie, that's who was offering me this "deal" to start with. I have a letter of credit (works like cashier's check), ready to purchase asap, no BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 John, While I appreciate your concern, I'd like to clear a few things up. First off, I'm not sure why you would expect us to sell a new 2005 below invoice. Sure, it is a demo car, but if it wasn't a demo there is no way we would sell it for invoice. I can personally vouch for the condition of the car and it is absolutely perfect. It IS a new car and will be titled as new. A demo car has never been titled and the warranty on it would start like you bought one with 0 miles on it. It seems some people were confused in implying that I was pushing a used car on you. We could order one, but I was under the impression you didn't want to wait so I was trying to help you out. I believe there are quite a few people in the community who would vouch for the fact that I do take care of people. I was a WRX owner long before I was selling cars for this dealership and I actually run [url]www.wrxhackers.com[/url] to help out UTEC owners in the community. Quite a few people on NASIOC have had dealings with me from selling parts in the past as well as the Subaru meets I set up here at the dealership long before I was working here. So... I was pretty surprised when one of them called me to inform me about this post. My offer of straight invoice still stands. As it turns out the original price the sales manager had given me was $400 over. Invoice is $27,532 and that would be your price. When you emailed me saying that you could get invoice from another dealer I figured you wouldn't be interested and I wanted to avoid a price war that would get us nowhere. It just doesn't make sense for us. Hopefully you understand that this is my livelihood and that it pays my bills. At that price I will make $100 flat commission. I don't have to explain to you guys how many cars I'd have to sell at that kind of price to make a decent wage. My apologies for the email coming off like I was blowing you off. That's the problem with the internet, way too hard to express exactly what you mean. If you have any more concerns we can talk over the phone to avoid and further misunderstandings. If you decide not to purchase here I completely understand but I wanted to at least respond to your post so you know where I stood. Sincerely, Tim McKenzie [email]tim@wrxhackers.com[/email] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Now that is refreshing to see dealer hop on reach out. :) OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Hey I've been here before.. ;) And I'm a Subaru enthusiast first and foremost. You should have seen the WRX I sold. (JDM Motor, 16g turbo, STi suspension, etc etc) I registered on here back in April because I was going to buy a Legacy GT (the same red one in fact) but decided I wanted more of a race ready car to avoid spending a ton of money in aftermarket parts. So... I picked up a used 04 STi instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 [quote name='John M']If his last name is McKenzie, that's who was offering me this "deal" to start with. I have a letter of credit (works like cashier's check), ready to purchase asap, no BS.[/quote] too bad you arent here in IL. the dealer i got my GT from sold me mine for 2100 under the sticker price. i nearly shat myself when they made the offer. only had 9 miles on it when i rolled it off the lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 [quote]While I appreciate your concern, I'd like to clear a few things up. First off, I'm not sure why you would expect us to sell a new 2005 below invoice. Sure, it is a demo car, but if it wasn't a demo there is no way we would sell it for invoice. I can personally vouch for the condition of the car and it is absolutely perfect. It IS a new car and will be titled as new. A demo car has never been titled and the warranty on it would start like you bought one with 0 miles on it.[/quote] Yes, and you're already 3K miles in the hole on the warranty. The car is still used as far as I'm concerned with 3K miles regardless of who drove it. Is the warranty now 3 yrs and 39,000 miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted September 22, 2004 Author Share Posted September 22, 2004 Buying a Legacy GT Limited with single-digit mileage for invoice is certainly not a rare occurrence; it happens daily. Subaru has a fat enough holdback that nobody starves. It's not a homerun deal but at least it's a base hit. The only reason I was still interested in a car with 3 months worth of mileage is because of how much I owe on my trade. I'd rather trade than wait for it to sell, and if I had seen an encouraging total price I probably would have bought it anyway. I am enthusiast as well, having driven turbo cars for the past 12-14 years. I decided to sell my two cars so I could buy one car that's fun to drive and can hold 4 people when traveling. Here's a list of my previous cars that I posted in another thread: [quote] • four 1st-gen DSMs • a 91 Galant VR4 (#746 of 2000) • an 89 Mirage turbo (one of 1200) • a 97 Eclipse Spyder GST • a 92 Stealth twin turbo (wrecked) • a 94 [url=http://moojohn.com/stealth]Stealth twin turbo[/url] (sold last week) • an 01 [url=http://moojohn.com/stealth/mercury]Grand Marquis LSE[/url] (one of 3000) [/quote] At this point I'm going to try my luck at a few other dealerships that have a red LGT Limited in stock. I'm not desperate and the money is here when I do find a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 [quote name='John M']Buying a Legacy GT Limited with single-digit mileage for invoice is certainly not a rare occurrence; it happens daily. Subaru has a fat enough holdback that nobody starves. It's not a homerun deal but at least it's a base hit. The only reason I was still interested in a car with 3 months worth of mileage is because of how much I owe on my trade. I'd rather trade than wait for it to sell, and if I had seen an encouraging total price I probably would have bought it anyway. I am enthusiast as well, having driven turbo cars for the past 12-14 years. I decided to sell my two cars so I could buy one car that's fun to drive and can hold 4 people when traveling. Here's a list of my previous cars that I posted in another thread: [quote] • four 1st-gen DSMs • a 91 Galant VR4 (#746 of 2000) • an 89 Mirage turbo (one of 1200) • a 97 Eclipse Spyder GST • a 92 Stealth twin turbo (wrecked) • a 94 [url=http://moojohn.com/stealth]Stealth twin turbo[/url] (sold last week) • an 01 [url=http://moojohn.com/stealth/mercury]Grand Marquis LSE[/url] (one of 3000) [/quote] At this point I'm going to try my luck at a few other dealerships that have a red LGT Limited in stock. I'm not desperate and the money is here when I do find a car.[/quote] good luck to you. you'll hit the GT jackpot soon enough :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Nice list of cars. :) The Stealths were nice just wish they weren't so darn heavy. Like I said before, if you need us we're here. I'm not going to push a car on you, that's why I had mentioned that if you have friends at another dealership you should see if they can work something out for you. Should that fall through I can order one for you but the turn around on that can be up to 60 days right now from Subaru. Oh.. the warranty thing... It would be 36k + whatever miles are on the car. As far as Subaru is concerned the warranty starts when the car is titled. So it would be 3 years or 36,000 miles from the day you sign the paperwork. That was something I had learned since starting the car sales gig. Also... holdback... I have no idea how much is there but it's not as much as you're thinking I'm sure. The salesman does NOT get paid on it. I'm probably a bad salesman... I'm way too honest with my customers and I'm as up front as I can be. However, I do love what I do and I love Subarus so I try to help whenever I can. This particular time there is nothing else I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 [quote name='crazyhorse']Nice list of cars. :) The Stealths were nice just wish they weren't so darn heavy. Like I said before, if you need us we're here. I'm not going to push a car on you, that's why I had mentioned that if you have friends at another dealership you should see if they can work something out for you. Should that fall through I can order one for you but the turn around on that can be up to 60 days right now from Subaru. Oh.. the warranty thing... It would be 36k + whatever miles are on the car. As far as Subaru is concerned the warranty starts when the car is titled. So it would be 3 years or 36,000 miles from the day you sign the paperwork. That was something I had learned since starting the car sales gig. Also... holdback... I have no idea how much is there but it's not as much as you're thinking I'm sure. The salesman does NOT get paid on it. I'm probably a bad salesman... I'm way too honest with my customers and I'm as up front as I can be. However, I do love what I do and I love Subarus so I try to help whenever I can. This particular time there is nothing else I can do.[/quote] you're right, they were heavy. they also had craptastic 1st and 2nd gear synchros, which leads to the notorious transmission problems in some mitsu cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retslo Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Car with 3000 miles is not a new car by any stretch of imagination. My 05 GT LTD Wagon was $28,200 with couple of options in it. It had 60 miles on it when I bought it (and I put 20 of those 60 on by myself). Yeah I got a OK deal (like almost everyone else out there - just check couple auto sites) but as usual you take a bath on the trade in. Sergej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 I'm not going to argue semantics about new vs demo etc... I will just say that a demo is titled as a new car and the warranty starts like it has 0 miles. John, if I can help in any way just let me know. I'm not looking to start some silly argument on a website about what constitutes new and how much mileage is too much. If you get the car elsewhere and are looking to get some parts for it shoot me an email. I've got wholesale accounts with most of the vendors out there so I'll help you out price wise on those. -Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 The paperwork my Seattle dealer showed me (the are a self proclaimed "full disclosure" dealer) that the hold back is $1188 on my LGT 5MT Limited Wagon. I gave them about 600 over invoice so they did just fine. 12 miles on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted September 22, 2004 Author Share Posted September 22, 2004 [quote name='Colonel Angus'] you're right, they were heavy. they also had craptastic 1st and 2nd gear synchros, which leads to the notorious transmission problems in some mitsu cars.[/quote] They're so heavy mine ran 12.5 @ 109 using stock turbos, cat-back, and fuel pump. It also shifted fine after 10 years of driving. It's all in how you take care of it. On all my Mitsus, the only thing I ever broke was a shift fork, and that was becuase of worn bushings on the shifter itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QToo Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 RBP LGT w/ wing and 13 miles on the ODO, $27,565. Bought with the IMBA program which is supposed to be at invoice. I would highly recommend that you sign up for the program as some dealers will not make you wait the 6 months. Aren't the short shifter kits and auto-dim mirror a dealer installed option? If so, you only need to locate a red with factory wing and then have them install the 2. I actually had the dealer swap my trunk to "remove" the wing. I may go with the lip spolier at a later date which gives a much cleaner look. To pay invoice for a "new" car with 3000 miles on it is beyond my comprehension. Just because someone from the dealer is driving it doesn't mean that there wasn't any wear and tear, they are still driving it in the real world. I would have to ask for a switch of roles in this case. If I purchase a new LGT, drive it for 30 days on the temp plates and rack up 3000 miles, but never register the car with the state, and then trade it in, do I get all my money back? Does the person who buys my car now get a "new" car with the 3yr/36K warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Angus Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 [quote name='QToo']RBP LGT w/ wing and 13 miles on the ODO, $27,565. Bought with the IMBA program which is supposed to be at invoice. I would highly recommend that you sign up for the program as some dealers will not make you wait the 6 months. Aren't the short shifter kits and auto-dim mirror a dealer installed option? If so, you only need to locate a red with factory wing and then have them install the 2. I actually had the dealer swap my trunk to "remove" the wing. I may go with the lip spolier at a later date which gives a much cleaner look. To pay invoice for a "new" car with 3000 miles on it is beyond my comprehension. Just because someone from the dealer is driving it doesn't mean that there wasn't any wear and tear, they are still driving it in the real world. I would have to ask for a switch of roles in this case. If I purchase a new LGT, drive it for 30 days on the temp plates and rack up 3000 miles, but never register the car with the state, and then trade it in, do I get all my money back? Does the person who buys my car now get a "new" car with the 3yr/36K warranty?[/quote] the autodimming compass is part of the group1 package, which i believe also consists of the upgraded perimeter security system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Just so you know... on the IMBA program the dealership gets $300-500 back that's why they're always willing to do the VIP thing. Sorry.. but I'm not going to feel bad about not giving our cars away. Do you want to work 50+ hours a week for free? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STG Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 crazyhorse, Each dealer buys his inventory and has the absolute right to sell each car for whatever price the market will support. The question at hand seems to be why your dealership is offering to sell a car with three thousand miles on it at a price that seems to be above the going rate for what knowledgable Subaru buyers pay. Perhaps the Subaru supply/demand situation in your area is unique, but here in southern California you can walk into just about any dealer and get a quote of invoice + $200. I purchased my GT sedan for less than that (straight cash deal) because the only option I wanted was automatic and the car in stock had the dimming mirror, sub woofer, optional security system and wheel locks. The fleet manager heavily discounted the "unwanted options" and threw in a set of Subaru rubber floor mats plus 2 extra programmed keys. My car had 8 miles on it when delivered. If you can sell a demo with 3,000 miles on it for your asking price, go for it. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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