as expected, G35 driver's gloating over C&D article...

[scubie02]

[url]http://g35driver.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=1&Number=344637&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=[/url] Man, some of these guys really have issues...

[seanGT42]

nice refute @ the bottom 8)

[godwhomismike]

I believe they were more concerned with fuel economy than performance, our car had the worst fuel economy, which was probably one of the bigget reasons for its third place in there. - Mike

[GT Ski]

You mean the badge snobs and dicks are still badge snobs and dicks? :D

[lemming]

[quote name='GT Ski']You mean the badge snobs and dicks are still badge snobs and dicks? :D[/quote] i like the idea of the G35 because it really goes after the 3 series. it failed miserably in execution because of (1) weight and (2) interior parts and (3) japanese horses from Nissan don't see to much up well with BMW horses. (1) it is a corporate platform that needs to be able to handle the weight of the FX vehicles as well as the 350Z car. heavy. if it was a G35 specific platform, it would be at least a quantum better and likely, weigh less. i prefer the G35 coupe, but it's still a porky little pig. (2) interior parts from Nissan don't really impact the Infiniti cars so much....until you get to the G35. for some reason, it got hit with the chintzy stick. all of the complaints i have had and magazines have had with the n issan altima's chintziness and the 350Z's chintz apply to the G35 interior. it got "upgraded" recently but it's not better than the leg GT and it's certainly more money. (3) 260hp is a lot of power on paper.....but somehow that 260hp doesn't really do all that much compared to the in-class benchmark, the 330i or the 330i ZHP. i have no idea why the acceleration doesn't blow the 330 out of the water, but it doesn't. the 350Z with even more horsepower is even more puzzling because it's barely faster than the legacy GT. so, in summary, i like the idea of the G35, but like all japanese faux-luxe (i.e. cars based on plebian stablemate chassis but fancied up), the first generation isn't well executed. am fully confident it will be better in the second generation.

[GT Ski]

Meh, it was just those two losers feeding off of each other again. Funny how they ignored the R&T comparo... 8)

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='GT Ski']Meh, it was just those two losers feeding off of each other again. Funny how they ignored the R&T comparo... 8)[/quote] No comments now... :lol:

[Whitestar Pilot]

So the G35 Sedan is more luxurious, and the Infiniti name is more upper class than Subaru. :roll: Standing 10 feet away from each model though (the LGT and the G35), I can't help but notice just how much more sexy the Subaru looks. The G35 is BORING, folks. Its a name-plate and a price-tag, nothing more.

[Ken S]

Does it really matter what some misguided G35 owners think of the Legacy? I kind of feel bad for them as they probably have some deep rooted insecurities from constantly being compared against, but never on equal footing, as the 3-Series. Sad... Ken

[Deer Killer]

Insecurity is what buying a infiniti is about. Really, that's the image they are trying to produce and by the knuckle heads on that forum I think they have succeeded in producing their target audience. They really did hit that thing with the ugly stick though. The GT maybe a kludge because of those ridiculous bumpers, but the infiniti was born that way, perhaps they were aiming for the inbred british royalty look? Nothing to be proud of, unless of course, you're british royalty :)

[Parousia]

First off I do not think that the Infiniti is an ugly car. We looked at the Infiniti very seriously but decided against it for several reasons. The actual car looks very nice, it has an excellent AWD system, and it has many of the luxury's that should be present on the Legacy GT LTD like 2 person memory drivers seat at a minimum. The issues I have with the sedan are the cramped feeling in the front seats. Sitting in the passenger seat I felt very cramped with the large front console and dash very close around my legs. The rear seats are way to reclined, I felt very uncomfortable driving around as a passenger in the rear. I think that they reclined the rear seats to this degree to compensate for my next complaint: very little head room if the rear seats are upright. But it has a great engine and the feel of RWD is very good when driving the vehicle. BTW it doesn't come as a wagon either which was my desire from the start. Parousia

[lemming]

[quote name='Deer Killer']Insecurity is what buying a infiniti is about. Really, that's the image they are trying to produce and by the knuckle heads on that forum I think they have succeeded in producing their target audience. They really did hit that thing with the ugly stick though. The GT maybe a kludge because of those ridiculous bumpers, but the infiniti was born that way, perhaps they were aiming for the inbred british royalty look? Nothing to be proud of, unless of course, you're british royalty :)[/quote] it will be 10 years at least before japanese luxury buyers will be able to buy their cars without feeling insecure. and even then, if the current trend holds true, the fact that their cars are rooted in plebian chassis such as the camry or a goddamned SUV like the fx45 definitely matters. why spend money on cars like that when you can buy true luxury cars with platforms designed just for those cars? you don't really see the 3 series or even the chintzy c-class with plebian cars, do you?

[lemming]

[quote name='Parousia']First off I do not think that the Infiniti is an ugly car. We looked at the Infiniti very seriously but decided against it for several reasons. The actual car looks very nice, it has an excellent AWD system, and it has many of the luxury's that should be present on the Legacy GT LTD like 2 person memory drivers seat at a minimum. The issues I have with the sedan are the cramped feeling in the front seats. Sitting in the passenger seat I felt very cramped with the large front console and dash very close around my legs. The rear seats are way to reclined, I felt very uncomfortable driving around as a passenger in the rear. I think that they reclined the rear seats to this degree to compensate for my next complaint: very little head room if the rear seats are upright. But it has a great engine and the feel of RWD is very good when driving the vehicle. BTW it doesn't come as a wagon either which was my desire from the start. Parousia[/quote] i disagree with that single point. the infiniti AWD lacks true LSDs like the subaru AWD has. modulating the brakes to mimic LSDs are okay to a point.......

[Parousia]

[quote] Drivetrain All-wheel Drive (AWD) Advanced Total Traction Engineering System for All Electronic Torque Split (ATTESA E-TS™) AWD features complete electronic control with electromagnetic coupling, variable-engaged coupling torque and millisecond response time. Advanced torque control automatically apportions power front-to-rear based on vehicle and road conditions. Infinitely variable torque split from 100 percent rear to 50/50 percent front-to-rear. In every situation, this control system provides an effective torque split. Traction Control System (AWD): senses wheelspin and with the ATESSA E-TS™ AWD System, automatically reduces engine output and/or up-shifts the transmission to regain traction. Includes Active Brake limited-slip differential which brakes slipping wheel(s), diverting power to the wheels with greater traction. Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC): compares the driver's input to the vehicle's response while cornering. By selectively braking individual wheels and/or reducing engine output, VDC can help the driver maintain control of the vehicle[/quote] The vehicle does not rely on braking to imitate a LSD. Now the traction control has a computer controlled system that used breaking to control wheel spin similar to the VDC Outback and the Audi Allroad, but the AWD system uses electromagnetic coupling. electromagnetic coupling is very similar to the new SH AWD system coming from Honda, currently used in the Acura RL this model year. A VERY GOOD SYSTEM. Parousia

[lemming]

[quote name='Parousia'][quote] Drivetrain All-wheel Drive (AWD) Advanced Total Traction Engineering System for All Electronic Torque Split (ATTESA E-TS™) AWD features complete electronic control with electromagnetic coupling, variable-engaged coupling torque and millisecond response time. Advanced torque control automatically apportions power front-to-rear based on vehicle and road conditions. Infinitely variable torque split from 100 percent rear to 50/50 percent front-to-rear. In every situation, this control system provides an effective torque split. Traction Control System (AWD): senses wheelspin and with the ATESSA E-TS™ AWD System, automatically reduces engine output and/or up-shifts the transmission to regain traction. Includes Active Brake limited-slip differential which brakes slipping wheel(s), diverting power to the wheels with greater traction. Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC): compares the driver's input to the vehicle's response while cornering. By selectively braking individual wheels and/or reducing engine output, VDC can help the driver maintain control of the vehicle[/quote] The vehicle does not rely on braking to imitate a LSD. Now the traction control has a computer controlled system that used breaking to control wheel spin similar to the VDC Outback and the Audi Allroad, but the AWD system uses electromagnetic coupling. electromagnetic coupling is very similar to the new SH AWD system coming from Honda, currently used in the Acura RL this model year. A VERY GOOD SYSTEM. Parousia[/quote] which part of "Active Brake limited-slip differential which brakes slipping wheel(s), diverting power to the wheels with greater traction." is unclear? a limited slip differential is a mechanical device. an "active brake" LSD is where the brakes are used to mimic an LSD. typically brakes are used to save weight on vehicles already pretty hefty and porky, just like the G35x (not to mention to save money). i was disappointed to see that audi has moved to brake-dependent LSDs and BMW also depends on the brakes. why does this matter? if you get stuck in tough conditions and the brakes overheat from trying to mimic the action of and LSD? the system shuts itself down. this happens more than once in our 325xi wagon.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Parousia'][quote] Includes Active Brake limited-slip differential which brakes slipping wheel(s), diverting power to the wheels with greater traction. [/quote] The vehicle does not rely on braking to imitate a LSD. [/quote] Eh, read again. Sure the center diff is electronically controlled, but that does not guarantee traction.. the GT MT drivetrain will guarantee traction to any one wheel with it's LSD's. The G35 will need to apply brakes to imitate front/rear LSD's. Only the 6spd MT G35 (without AWD) has a rear LSD. The subaru's AWD is a driver's AWD. The G35's is more of a check box, get you going again in the snow, and a little more traction in wet starts AWD. Even the Audi's are doing this now days to save some cash, torsen center diff, but relies on braking for front/rear LSD's. I'd say we have one of the best AWD systems in the world, and it follows KISS engineering.

[lemming]

[quote name='Deer Killer'][quote name='Parousia'][quote] Includes Active Brake limited-slip differential which brakes slipping wheel(s), diverting power to the wheels with greater traction. [/quote] The vehicle does not rely on braking to imitate a LSD. [/quote] Eh, read again. Sure the center diff is electronically controlled, but that does not guarantee traction.. the GT MT drivetrain will guarantee traction to any one wheel with it's LSD's. The G35 will need to apply brakes to imitate front/rear LSD's. Only the 6spd MT G35 (without AWD) has a rear LSD. The subaru's AWD is a driver's AWD. The G35's is more of a check box, get you going again in the snow, and a little more traction in wet starts AWD. Even the Audi's are doing this now days to save some cash, torsen center diff, but relies on braking for front/rear LSD's. I'd say we have one of the best AWD systems in the world, and it follows KISS engineering.[/quote] thanks for helping to clarify the matter, DK.

[RobY]

I didnt buy a legacy GT for the status appeal. I bought it for the overall drivers experience, the turbo engine, and its real AWD system. Before I got my LGT. My friend was urging me to buy a G35 and I quote "You know how many chicks you can get with that car" Sorry I don't like to think that I need a car to get me chicks, or boost my social standing. Back to the AWD system. The subaru uses real LSD's Transfers power from wheels that slip to wheels that grip using viscous couplings. The viscous coupling transfers drivetrain power to ALL wheels simultaneously. Brake force "LSD's" uses open diffrentials that use brake force to stop the wheel with lesser traction from spinning. In simple terms it it STOPS power from the wheel that slips thus transfering power to the wheel that grips. By nature of an open diffrential at no point in time in instances of unequal traction will there be simultaneous distribution of power. Only pulsated power to the wheels the computer decides has more traction.

[Mindflayer]

The Infiniti is a nice car. I looked at the FX35 - too large for a Northern VA garage along with my wife's SUV. The G35x is a nice car, but I thought the interior was not as luxurious as warranted for the badge. The AWD system also felt very much like it was strapped on. The Subaru very much feels like it was built from the ground up around the AWD.

[ssaldana]

Regardless of LGT's features, why are the G35 owners even talking about the Legacy. Its not even in the same price range. Someone on that board commented on not seeing one LGT on the road yet. I would much rather prefer seeing fewer amts of my car rather than one every other space at the parking garage.

[Parousia]

How exactly is a Limited slip differential a braking device? [/quote]a limited slip differential is a mechanical device. an "active brake" LSD is where the brakes are used to mimic an LSD. [quote] You are comparing 2 different devices, that both serve different purposes. Even when the Legacy GT's LSD operates it in no way acts as a breaking device. When the G35 senses wheel slip it actives the Electromagnetic coupling with transfers power to the different axles. The lack of an mechanical LSD does not impede this system at all. BTW the Outback VDC uses both a LSD and individual wheel braking so are they the same thing then? Parousia [/quote]

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='Parousia']How exactly is a Limited slip differential a braking device? [/quote]a limited slip differential is a mechanical device. an "active brake" LSD is where the brakes are used to mimic an LSD. [quote] You are comparing 2 different devices, that both serve different purposes. Even when the Legacy GT's LSD operates it in no way acts as a breaking device. When the G35 senses wheel slip it actives the Electromagnetic coupling with transfers power to the different axles. The lack of an mechanical LSD does not impede this system at all. BTW the Outback VDC uses both a LSD and individual wheel braking so are they the same thing then? Parousia [/quote][/quote] Wait for it....

[RobY]

Differentals are needed in cars becuse without them you would not be able to steer. It allows one wheel to move independently in relation to the other wheel. When you have an open diffrerential it sends power to the wheels with the least resistance. It is the mechanical nature of an open diffrential. Ill give some examples. For simplicty's sake lets focus on an axle. In a situations when you get stuck say one wheel is in a bank of snow and the other is on dry pavement... With an open diffrential the power will be transferred to the tire in the snowbank because it has the least resistance. Hence you are stuck. Now enter the brakeforce diffrential. A brakeforce diffrential uses the vehicles braking system in conjunction with a open differential to MIMIC a limited slip differential. In a similar situation when the computer detects that the wheel in the snow bank is spinning out of control it applies brake force to the wheel in the snow bank. Thus the wheel in the snowbank stops spinning and becomes the wheel with the MOST resistance by virtue that is now locked up with brake force. Thus by nature of an open differential it transfers power to the pavement because it now becomes the axle with the least resistance. Thus you get traction. Now this sounds great and all but realize it will only transfer power to one wheel at a time. Either the right side or the left side. Never both at the same time. Enter situation 2... You are in 8 inches of snow. Both wheels have equally crappy traction. With an open differential you are hopeless. Call a tow truck. With a brakeforce differental you will end up overheating your braking system. You still will be stuck because its transferring power to either wheel in which both the right AND the left wheel have crappy traction. The system will pulse the brake force back and forth with no avail. You might get lucky if one of your wheels have enough traction to pull you out. In subaru's true differential, Viscous Coupling system power is able to be transferred to both wheels simultaneously. When one wheel starts slipping the viscous coupling locks the axles together. Both right AND left wheels spin at the same time. Hence you get fun results like this :D [url]http://www.whobroketheinterweb.com/shared/cartrouble2.wmv[/url] Note the plumes of snow coming from ALL the wheels :D Technically the G35 system is AWD because POTENTALLY at one point in time any one of the 4 wheels is being driven. But not simultaneously. When we sort through all the technobabble and marketing fluff we find out its just another way to save money. I used to be in the 4 wheeler scene. Anybody who knew what they were talking about know electronic brakeforce differentials like the one on the H2 are a joke. Its not a way to increase traction but rather a way to find one of 4 surfaces under one of your 4 tires that has the most traction. Now if I am reading nissan's description of the g35x correctly the car is basicly 2 wheel drive. The computer picks which 2 wheels.

[racerdave]

I drove the G35. Nice. I drove the LGT. I liked it more. Others opinions don't really matter at this point, even those of magazines. [img]http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/moon.gif[/img]

[Throttlejockey]

[quote]Hence you get fun results like this [url]http://www.whobroketheinterweb.com/shared/cartrouble2.wmv[/url] Note the plumes of snow coming from ALL the wheels [/quote] Awesome footage :!: That was cool. 8)