Is VIP Price further negotiable?

[dondon]

My understandig of how the Subaru VIP pricing program works is that if you are a member of certain organizations (for at least 6 months), you can get most Subaru models at a predetermined price (usually the invoice price). By participating in the program, the dealership will end up getting some amount of money from SOA, to compensate them for the ostensibly lower price.

 

From lurking on the boards, it seems that many people have been able to get their hands on LGTs at or even below invoice without having to go through the VIP program.

 

My question is, are dealers allowed to sell a car as part of the VIP program at a lower price than the predetermined VIP price? Or are they locked into a particular price by SOA? Has anyone ever tried this (successfully or unsuccessfully)? Can anyone with more inside information educate me?

 

My thinking is that with a dealer who would have been willing to sell the vehicle at invoice price anyway, you could sign up for VIP and then "split" that money from SOA with the dealer. For example, if the kickback from SOA is $500, could the dealer then drop the price to say $250 below the VIP price?

[TedNacious]

yea but don't quit there. tell him youre VIP but split it 80/20 at most. Give him 100 bucks, and you take 400. There is no reason you should split a deal that YOU earned. If I were you, I would demand the whole VIP rebate. If he did not agree, i would offer him 10-20%. If he did not then submit, I would take my business elsewhere. It's free money for him, as it is for you, and a dealer isn't going to deny you what is rightfully yours when there is no cost to him, especially when you insist.

[spinski]

I have purchased two Legacys through the VIP program. From what I have heard, some people are getting their Subes below what I have paid. It is supposed to be straight "invoice" price then if there are any rebates you get that. The program then turns around and pays the dealer. That payment is not really "your" money but cash from the manufacturer to pay them to sell you the car. If you can get them to give you any of that money, great. I'm a salesman also and I don't mind paying a commssion salesman to sell me something, especially after I've gotten a decent discount and the salesman has done a good job helping me. If you can get a $33,000 Legacy GT for $25,000, great for you.

[SuperSubyMOOCHES]

yea but don't quit there. tell him youre VIP but split it 80/20 at most. Give him 100 bucks, and you take 400. There is no reason you should split a deal that YOU earned. If I were you, I would demand the whole VIP rebate. If he did not agree, i would offer him 10-20%. If he did not then submit, I would take my business elsewhere. It's free money for him, as it is for you, and a dealer isn't going to deny you what is rightfully yours when there is no cost to him, especially when you insist.

 

 

On a daily basis, I deal with clients like you. The problem that we face, as dealerships, is that Enough is NEVER Enough. As we have seen over the last year and a half, dealerships have lost their new car franchises due to their inability to remain profitable. There is not a business in the world, that I know of, that will provided products or services at cost or below other than the automobile industry. From what I gather from your posting is that cost, or below cost, is still not enough. Most dealerships bend over backwards to earn the business of prospective clients. And from what you're saying, we now must brake our backs and wallets to earn your business. Now, Subaru as a company is world renowned for producing top rated AWD vehicles at a very cost effective price point. Profit margins to the dealerships are minimal at best. Forgive us if we are trying to provide a living for ourselves and our families. The fact is when prospective clients like yourself present offers that I have to assume are rediculous, you fail to realize that you have no idea what it costs to run a dealership and maintain the standards that Subaru upholds. The other fact in point is vehicles are built, transported, and marketed and also displayed at dealerships for YOUR convenience. What would you consider a fair profit margin? 2%? 1%? 1/2% of cost. I don't believe so. I beleive you feel these top rated vehicles should be provided to you at invoice or less. This kickback that you refer to is not a "kickback" but a miniscule counter effect to the costs incured by selling our products to the typical Subaru buyer. It is the amount that the dealership has earned to sell the manufacturers product to a client such as yourself. This amount is often much less than 2% of the cost of the vehicle and also much less than the actual costs incured to maintain a dealership. The average business profit margins are far greater such as CostCo's margin of 28%. The Subaru buyer that believes when buying a Subaru they are not worth suggested retail. Keep in mind our models also include the 2009 and 2010 SUV of the year. I suspect that when the time comes to sell your Subaru years later, in spite of it's condidtion and mileage that you would feel it's value is worth MORE than it's suggested retail or trade values. Why? There is no reason or logical explanation for the thought process involved. It's not our market or profit margins. It is you, the typical Subaru buyer. But who knows, maybe you work for $0.00/hr. or ,better yet, you PAY your employer for the priveledge of working at your place of business.

[eldiablo]

hey supersalesguy,,, you do realize that this thread is from 4 years ago, right?

[ShrinerMonkey]

Evidence that car dealers are out of touch is exemplified by this poster making his/her first post to a thread that is 4 years old.

[Verwilderd]

In all fairness to this guy....this is a topic that comes up regularly.

[SuperSubyMOOCHES]

In all fairness to this guy....this is a topic that comes up regularly.

 

The time frame of this posting is not of significance. What is of dignificance is that people realize that we work for a living just like everyone else. And like everyone else, we are trying to sustain a standard of living. By providing a superior product that will allow clients to earn income, attend social functions, and to provide transportation in general for day to day life. Isn't there some value to be had there?

[bradygo]

Hey man, I understand what you're saying...I know what it's like to be in business and to have people try to eek out every last bit of profit.

 

At the same time, you can't really blame consumers for this. People are only going to expect prices they've seen evidence of, or at least heard of. Hypothetically, if I heard that saying some secret password at the time of negotiation yielded a Subaru at a 30% discount, I might dismiss it as unrealistic. But if I read a number of times that people actually do get that kind of pricing, I will come to expect a 30% discount.

 

Now, I haven't come to expect many rebates or other incentives from Subaru because they're not offered too often (unlike the other car companies who offer new ones seemingly every week). What I have come to expect, though, is a car somewhere around (and even possibly below) invoice pricing. I don't expect this because I want to screw over the dealer--I expect this because I've heard time and time again, in person and on forums that that's what you can get a Subaru for.

 

By simply competitive bidding a few dealerships, I've been offered right below invoice pricing on a new Subaru. Why would I, in my right mind, turn around and spend a few thousand dollars more at another dealership? If anything, you should blame other dealers for outbidding your pricing. As unfortunate as it is, capitalism can inspire business cannibalism.

 

That doesn't make your situation any less salient--and I really do feel for you--but demanding customers are a symptom, not a cause of your troubles.

[ShrinerMonkey]

I don't see a problem here. If the deal doesn't give you enough profit then don't agree to it.

 

I wouldn't come here looking for sympathy. You certainly won't get any from me. Car dealers are there own worst enemies and blaming your customers is a terrible attitude to have and won't win you any more sales.

[Verwilderd]

I don't see a problem here. If the deal doesn't give you enough profit then don't agree to it.

 

I wouldn't come here looking for sympathy. You certainly won't get any from me. Car dealers are there own worst enemies and blaming your customers is a terrible attitude to have and won't win you any more sales.

 

I totally agree with your statement here. The only customers I hate are the ones who come and you spend hours with showing them everything about the vehicle and then they demand below invoice pricing.

 

The ones who contact various dealership trying to find the best deal are ok by me. That's something any sane person should do. From there it is the dealerships who always price real low that screw things up for the others.

 

What irks me the most is when you have a jerk customer who's sat there and wasted your time for 3+ hours while you show them every car under the sun and then demand invoice minus holdback pricing (because they spent two minutes online and somebody somewhere said that they can get). When you tell them that it's a business and we need to make a profit (no matter how small or large) then get pissy and leave.

 

The other thing to keep in mind, is no one really got the deal they said they did. People round numbers or don't include all the information and then tell other's that they got a better deal than they actually did because they want to appear as expert negotiators.

 

I've seen this happen many, many times. In fact, just recently I had a customer come in that I sold a vehicle to two years ago tell me that the price he got on a 08 WRX was $22K for a premium. I know for a fact that he didn't get anywhere near that price. The other thing people don't tell you was whether they had a trade in or not and how much was given for that VS how much could/should have been given. Also, people never mention whether they financed and what rate they got VS what was available. All they say is the price (which is 99.9% of the time rounded down...I've even done this myself. No one remembers exactly what they paid). But the thing is a dealership may offer what seems like a lower price, but then make that money back up in warranties/trade-ins/financing etc. NO ONE ever mentions these things.

 

So my point is, before you (the platonic you) start believing what customers are paying, dig further and find out all the fact of the deal (if said person actually remembers).

 

If customer A finances a vehicle (and the dealership makes a point on the rate) for $20K....that doesn't mean customer B (who's going to pay cash) is going to get the same car for the same price.

 

Dealerships are businesses and they need to turn a profit in order to keep the doors open.

 

In closing, I will admit that the practices of dealerships are stupid. If they would just go to set pricing for vehicles, things would be much more simple. A customer would go to a dealership because they were offered great service and the people knew what they were doing....not because the dealership without any kind of customer service offered a slightly cheaper price. This would help customers because you will get much better service, and if all cars had set pricing, customers would eventually get better cars because they will no longer buy a car because a shady dealership was able to offer what appeared to be a good deal on crap but actually because they vehicle they wanted was truly the best vehicle available for the price. If this happened manufacturers would have to step up and offer MUCH, MUCH more for MUCH less in order to sell there vehicles. Offering a garbage car for $20K and then offering a $10K rebate would no longer fool people into thinking the they just got $10k off a $20K car....they would realize that is was only a $10K car to begin with and it was only ever worth that.

 

Does this last part make sense?

[sixspeedlegacy]

The time frame of this posting is not of significance. What is of dignificance is that people realize that we work for a living just like everyone else. And like everyone else, we are trying to sustain a standard of living. By providing a superior product that will allow clients to earn income, attend social functions, and to provide transportation in general for day to day life. Isn't there some value to be had there?

 

 

Hey guess what, there is something called supply and demand economics and perfect competition. If you don't feel you make enough then get out of the business and go elsewhere. Don't blame consumers trying to get the best deal when you are on the opposite side trying to get the best deal for yourself.

[Verwilderd]

Hey guess what, there is something called supply and demand economics and perfect competition. If you don't feel you make enough then get out of the business and go elsewhere. Don't blame consumers trying to get the best deal when you are on the opposite side trying to get the best deal for yourself.

 

Oh gosh ....that saying is sooo dumb. Besides, you are missing the point he's trying to make.

 

The point he's trying to make (I believe) is that you want the best deal, but when it's given it's never enough. If you (the customer) know the dealership is making any money whatsoever, you (the customer) act like you've just been ripped off. No only that, but when customers are all pissy refusing to acknowlege all the time, effort and knowledge the salesman has given them knowing he's paid on commission, it's pretty crappy and insulting. If customers would acknowledge the salesperson (as long as he'she has done a good job) I think things would be different....but when they've spent all this time and you continue to haggle down the price, it just shows that you don't value anything he's given you (despite the fact you are still buying the vehicle he/she showed you and know about it because the him/her)

[tubulartitonies]

OK, the original posting may be 4 years old, but I cannot resist the opportunity to reply to Super Suby Mooches, whatever that may mean or be.

First of all, quit crying like a baby. You have the power to say NO. Don’t like the deal, you own the car so say NO. Nobody and no organization holds a gun to your head and tells you that you have to sell that car at that price. It is called free enterprise and the marketplace, not one consumer who wants a great deal dictates prices or policy.

Now let’s get to the heart of the matter, you claim you are a dealer so look in the mirror. You and your manufacturers are the ones that started the price discount wars, rebates, discounts, incentives, 0% interest, and so forth. So why is it our fault if we the buying public wants to take advantage of the opportunities?

You whine that you are losing money, but I doubt that or you wouldn’t be in business. No businessman is going to invest millions of dollars in a franchise to have the privilege of selling cars for a loss. Remember what I said above, you have the power to say NO. You rant that I have no idea what it cost to run your business, your right I don’t and the fact is I don’t need to know. You offer a product to the consumer, you post prices, incentives, discounts, special offers etc, it is my job as the consumer to make the best deal for me, my family, and my budget. You whine that you are just trying to make a living, well so are we and we can best provide for our families if we buy the car at the lowest price possible, either from you or the competing Subaru dealer down the street.

Now for a few facts and pointers. Please do your homework before you pontificate on other profit margins. As publicly reported COSTCO’s profit margin is 1.63% and their operating margin is 2.63%. Not even close to your 28%, which tells me you know little about what you speak. Please do us all a favor and proofread your rant. Example, "Brake" is a part of a car certainly not your back, overall your grammar and spelling tell me that you are not a dealer just a frustrated sales hack. You might also look up how to spell rediculous, priveledge

 

So quit whining and get to work.

[rao]

I usually go to the dealer and ask them to tell me what they think is a fair price for the car and then I pay that amount. This helps to build a good relationship with them and they send me nice holiday cards.

[jagcars26]

I usually go to the dealer and ask them to tell me what they think is a fair price for the car and then I pay that amount. This helps to build a good relationship with them and they send me nice holiday cards.

 

:lol:,,you and all the little old ladies who pay sticker price for a car and think the dealer did them a favor.

 

 

And there is a boatload of that type of buyer out there.So don't think dealers are going broke.If you're not a good salesman BTW,you WILL go broke and probably not last long in the automotive business.

[stiwanabe]

I work at a dealership as a tech. When I tell people where I work they ask me if Im a salesman. I tell them Im not a good enough liar so i had to resort to fixing the cars.

 

I see both sides of the story. Most "salesmen" are some sort of pathological liar, major league buttkisser, or just a blithering ignoramus. They are merely pawns, keeping the customers at bay, and away from the real decision-makers of the operation(Sales Manager, General Manager, Used Car manager). Any time Ive bought a car I always request to deal directly with a manager. Not because I want to take money out of the salesman's pocket, but b/c its a lot easier to get a deal done without the middleman making stuff up.

Also, I tend to see that most of the salespeople have come to grips with the fact that there is NO money in new cars. Its merely varying brands of smoke and mirrors to dress up what's at the heart of many of these "fine" establishments...Your run-of-the-mill sleazy used car lot. They look a lot nicer when there are a bunch of new Subarus, Toyotas, Hondas, Lexus, etc, etc, etc also on the lot. Along with said manufacturer backing a lot of the amenteties that come with the property.

I know one of the most successful salesmen at my dealership has no problem selling new cars as low as humanly possible. Even so as to only put $100 in his pocket and the dealership breaks even on the rest. Know why? Cuz for every minute he wastes bickering with the customer about the price he's missing the opportunity to sell the guy who cant afford a brand new car a nice used piece for $10K that the dealership only paid $3K for at the auction...