Tuned200 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 after talking with a friend, he told me that the subie has a limit to how many times the ecu can be reflashed. whats happens if you go over, and why is this. if this is old news, flame away. just a subie newbie trying to figure some stuff out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 ~100 times is the rumor.... but it is unproven..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuned200 Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 ~100 times is the rumor.... but it is unproven..... so anytime you load new maps in, it counts as a reflash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 My understanding is the flashes are teh base maps, you can change the real time maps as frequently as you want without running through your~100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 i thought it was 99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 But The AP has no effect on this right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 ^^^^^ Um.... he just told you. Realtime maps don't count against the ECU flash count... but Base map changes do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 i dont have an AP yet so idk about the maps and such... do u flash realtime or base on an AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joon525 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 i dont have an AP yet so idk about the maps and such... do u flash realtime or base on an AP You flash a base map and then can load a real time map as often as you like from there. legacy gt accessport legacy gt accessport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fweasel Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Someone in the last post on this topic who was knowledgeable in eproms suggested that the 100 limit was laughably low with today's chips. ignore him, he'll go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisS Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Someone in the last post on this topic who was knowledgeable in eproms suggested that the 100 limit was laughably low with today's chips. It is. Generally speaking the limit should be more around 10k-100k times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Even if it is 100, that's one base map reflash a month for eight years straight. Most tweaked map evar! -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QTwo Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Could anyone with a computer background give some knowledge on the reflash issue vs. "learning" behavior? I had my car reflashed about 2 months ago to the latest update and the driveabilty was excellent, smooth, no studder. After about 750 miles I noticed it creeping back in and now after 1500, it is back to its' normal studdering self. I had another post about going into the dealer every 1500 miles for a quick reflash to remove the studder. The dealer is telling me that once you get updated then you can't reflash again to get rid of the BAD "learning" behavior. Why does the ECU want to learn this bad behavior and make our cars drive like crap? Can this portion of the ECU be turned off? For people that have pushed this issue higher up the flagpole with regional reps or Subaru of Am, what has your experience been? Tired of hearing that this is a characteristic of the car. If it is, then how come it goes away for a while after you reflash???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 ^^i'd like to know also..never heard of this before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 ^ Actually, The Don, an affected ECU "re-acquiring/re-l;earning" the "stutter/studder" is a very well known phenomenon that has continued to plague many of our members. Have a search thorugh the old threads, and you'll see this to be true of both SoA-mandated, dealer-performed ECU reflashes as well as, albeit to a lesser extent, users of aftermarket reflashes performed through either off-the-shelf or semi-custom AccessPORT maps, and is even evident, at times, after professional/custom tunes through either AccessPORT or ECUTek. Cobb's latest map revisions reportedly incorporates input from Jon/TDC Tuning and seems, so far, to have worked some good magic with this recurrence of stutter/studder (i.e. eliminating or greatly reducing it), but whether or not this fix will last....that, unfortunately, remains to be seen as owners log more time and more miles on said reflashes. Now, QTwo - As to why a subset of affected ECUs seem to re-learn/re-acquire the stutter/studder? I don't think that, at this point, anyone has offered a solid reason. Aside from certain tuners having had success in addressing this issue - either permanently or temporarily, and to varying degrees of success - I have yet to see anyone on the "hobbyist" level provide a 100% for-certain, sure-bang explaination of the issue, what causes it, and its potential solutions. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 TSI+WRX - I would note that with now over 750 miles on the latest revisions of the Cobb maps with TDC input, the stutter is again creeping back into the map on my car. It's better than it was, but I'm disappointed to see again that it has returned. As a fresh map (V1.16) it was butter smooth, but now there are few lumps again. I'm just happy to see so many improvements made though. I would be curious to drive a stocker again just for comparison anymore. I wonder how much of my perception of it getting smoother could be due to Hawthorn Effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 ^ Noted, brother Brady! Thanks for your candid report! We'll see how others are faring..... <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se2002 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Running TDC Stage 1 and I thought it was gone until one day while in Cruise at 55 mph, creeping up a small hill (5th gear), I felt it. I have not been able to recreate since. So, for the most part it's gone. I'm a 05 OBXT-5EAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4wantab Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hawthorn Effect....... I have not heard anyone refer to that in years. My '02 studders but I am missing that turbo thingy Peace, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuned200 Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 so basically, the stock maps are for people who have hiccups, and the ap maps are for power gains. so the only reason to go back to the stock reflash is for dealer warrenty service or to fix a ecu problem? i did read the cobb faq page, thanks for posting it, its in the favorites now. im not new to turbo's, just the subie ecu. im a nissan guy and we use JWT. plug and play, without the ability to change programs without a new eprom chip. go easy on the newbie. whats the deal with Custom tuned ECUtek ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 so basically, the stock maps are for people who have hiccups, and the ap maps are for power gains. ^ Not necessarily - some have had great results with either off-the-shelf or custom maps eliminating their stutter/studder. It's just that this isn't a 100% "cure," that's all. whats the deal with Custom tuned ECUtek ? ECUTek, currently, offers no end-user "interface" (yes, there is a display available, but it's basically just that, a display) - as such, it is, by definition, a custom or semi-custom tune. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Fan Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I checked this with my "Subie Techy" friend....works for Subaru and is the local rally nut....he says that you get 99 reflashes:) then a new ECU:( ....I guess that is a total of 100.....count the stock set-up as #1. I also spoke to a Subie GURU in the area who claims there is a way to reset it back to "Zero"....start your 99 all over again....Anyone else heard this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIZARD Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 ?What would be the point of needing more than 99 reflashes? I just don't get it and I guess if someone is that "hardcore" that they need to reflash their base map every track day, then maybe the can afford to get a new ECU before they get a new car? Stage2.5376, TDC ProTune,blah blah blahhhh and....Alky/H20 injection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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