currentlya4 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Chapel']um... just... yeah... Haldex sucks[/quote] The Haldex center diff is on the transverse audis/Vdubs IIRC (TT, R32), and the system acts like a front drive setup until it slips. The longitudional 1.8's and 2.8's get a Torsen. Mine (97 1.8L A4) IIRC is 50/50 all the time. Quattro's also pretty bulletproof, unlike the rest of the car. Mine's at 136K right now and I've yet to have a problem with the quattro setup...can't say that about much else on the car. That said, the Legacy GT looks like the car audi should have built, hence my lurking on this forum and my likely purchase of one later this year or early next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Chapel']um... just... yeah... Haldex sucks[/quote] Real bad. 95/5 split until traction is lost. This is also the system used on the new VW R32. Oh, and I too would prefer mechanical components over electronic components. It just seems more fail-safe to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 My take as well DM. Watching some excellent Top Gear vids and knowing which system does what, the rear-bias systems definitely handle better overall. Plus I sit on that mechanical bias thing prefering hard means versus electronic which throws a whole new set of variables for possible failure in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='Chapel']um... just... yeah... Haldex sucks[/quote] Real bad. 95/5 split until traction is lost. This is also the system used on the new VW R32. Oh, and I too would prefer mechanical components over electronic components. It just seems more fail-safe to me.[/quote] Well I must confess to lurking on VWVortex recently because the R32 caught my eye. Those guys along with all the magazine reviews are crazy about the car, Motortrend I think called it a "baby S4". and the Haldex system is interesting in that it only puts power to the rear when 15 degrees of front wheel rotation more than rear wheel rotation is detected so on a car like the R32 which has 250hp and torque to boot it's very active through the first 3 or 4 gears when being driven hard in a straight line and almost always when cornering. The R32 has no torque steer due to the Haldex system. Lets not completely write it off, it does have the benefit of not not having the extra drivetrain loss when cruising on the highway. The Audi TT also uses the Haldex system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 It's just not a true, rear biased based AWD system you VW fanboy! :P The real reason this is used is so that VW can save money by not having to put their more expenisive, more advanced, Torsen system in, while still making it "techinally" AWD. The benefit of not having the drivetrain loss while cruising put it in the same class as any other non-full-time AWD system the Honda Piolt and other SUVs/manufacuterers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']It's just not a true, rear biased based AWD system you VW fanboy! :P The real reason this is used is so that VW can save money by not having to put their more expenisive, more advanced, Torsen system in, while still making it "techinally" AWD. The benefit of not having the drivetrain loss while cruising put it in the same class as any other non-full-time AWD system the Honda Piolt and other SUVs/manufacuterers.[/quote] Well the Haldex system is used on VW/Audi cars that use the VR6 motor mounted East - West in the engine bay and the Torsen system in the rest that are mounted North - South. Seems to me that is the reason why the respective systems are applied to their various cars. VW Fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Excuses from a typrical VW fanboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']My take as well DM. Watching some excellent Top Gear vids and knowing which system does what, the rear-bias systems definitely handle better overall. [/quote] As I understand it, the torque split on the manual trans Legacy GT is 50/50, while the car with the auto trans has a slight rear bias, like 45/55. So the auto GT handles better than the manual GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='outahere'][quote name='SUBE555']My take as well DM. Watching some excellent Top Gear vids and knowing which system does what, the rear-bias systems definitely handle better overall. [/quote] As I understand it, the torque split on the manual trans Legacy GT is 50/50, while the car with the auto trans has a slight rear bias, like 45/55. So the auto GT handles better than the manual GT?[/quote] I would expect the manual to handle better, the main reason being the ability to better regulate the throttle mid-corner along with better weight distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='outahere'][quote name='SUBE555']My take as well DM. Watching some excellent Top Gear vids and knowing which system does what, the rear-bias systems definitely handle better overall. [/quote] As I understand it, the torque split on the manual trans Legacy GT is 50/50, while the car with the auto trans has a slight rear bias, like 45/55. So the auto GT handles better than the manual GT?[/quote] Compare the WRX manual to the WRX auto for a good comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Gumby'][quote name='outahere'][quote name='SUBE555']My take as well DM. Watching some excellent Top Gear vids and knowing which system does what, the rear-bias systems definitely handle better overall. [/quote] As I understand it, the torque split on the manual trans Legacy GT is 50/50, while the car with the auto trans has a slight rear bias, like 45/55. So the auto GT handles better than the manual GT?[/quote] I would exp[ect the manuel to handle better, the main reason being the ability to better regulate the throttle mid-corner along with better weight distribution.[/quote] I would have to agree, throttle response and ability to modulate the throttle and clutch for that perfect balance is why I love manuals. Find some nice back roads or an AutoX and you'll definitely know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashwrx Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']It's just not a true, rear biased based AWD system you VW fanboy! :P The real reason this is used is so that VW can save money by not having to put their more expenisive, more advanced, Torsen system in, while still making it "techinally" AWD. The benefit of not having the drivetrain loss while cruising put it in the same class as any other non-full-time AWD system the Honda Piolt and other SUVs/manufacuterers.[/quote] The Haldex is by far the most technically sophisticated of the three in discussion. It is computer controlled, and uses all kinds of sensor inputs to vary torque to the rear wheels. Of the three, Subaru's standard AWD is probably the least sophisticated, but it's tough as nails and works, so why change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Syphisticated doesn't always mean better. Like you said it works, why change? To come people electronics mean it must be better. I'd just prefer a good driver to prove them wrong in testing. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Like we mentioned earlier, we prefer simple mechanical systems that have a less likelyhood of braking or malfunctioning over "more advanced" systems. Less is more in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryS Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']Less is more in this case.[/quote] Unless you're German. It can be improved by adding complexity!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 [quote name='GaryS'][quote name='Drift Monkey']Less is more in this case.[/quote] Unless you're German. It can be improved by adding complexity!![/quote] Yeah iDrive for example, that's a real hit :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 You mean when BMW is buying cars back because they can't fix them? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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