autobahned Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Just went to test drive Passat's 4 Motion and learned that it's also a 50/50 distribution like Legacy 5MT, and it has an EDL(Electronic Differential Lock) works closely with ABS Sensor to transferring power from the spinning wheel to the other. In addition, it has a Torsen Differential installed, which is a machanical usnit, sounds perfect with it's 1.8T Longitudinal engine, I don't know much about technical stuff, my question is, which system is more advance? I compare 5MT model only, coz I know Legacy 5EAT got a more advance than that of a 5 MT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Well im not sure which is more advanced. I have read in a magazine once that Subaru's system is the least complex but one of the most effective AWD systems available.. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autobahned Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 The least complex...it sounds right! I've test drove Audi A4 Quattro, VW Passat 4 Motion, they all seems too heavy(3500lb) and underpower, I also drove the Acura TSX, sweet 6MT stick! 45mm short shift throws (35mm on S2000) shifts light and crispy, the suspension tunning could bring the FWD sedan to a new level, but it's around 3250lb with 200/166, I cann't wait to see the new Legacy GT 5 MT here, AWD, 250/250 and only about 3200Lb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I was going to say that the Subaru system keeps it simple.. and effective.. I would hate to see the bill when a VW system fails. ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I agree on the TSX. Its a very well balanced sedan. If only they had a little more power and AWD, I would buy one. BTW....isn't the TSX engine rated at 220hp/166tq..? "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I think so.. but the TL has got some pretty serious power.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autobahned Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 [quote name='Ridgeracer'] BTW....isn't the TSX engine rated at 220hp/166tq..?[/quote] Well, The brochure I got states 200@6800 / 166@4500, and RSX Type-S has 200@7400 / 142@6000, no wonder I felt more pulling in low rpm range, minimum understeer, a little bit RWD feeling in it. As for TL, I think its big power makes it understeer too much, I almost though I was in an maxima... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I think part of the reason Subaru's AWD system is more effective and less complicated is because they do develop and use some of the lessons learned in rallying and use it on their production vehicles. The other mfgs are basically making luxury cars (anything over $30-35k is luxury in my book) and nearly all of those cars fit in that range. I think the luxury approach is the over-engineered electronically-controlled systems sound good to the consumer and they work for us even if they're overly expensive and complex. For Subaru, it just plain works. I'd rather have mechanical bits than electronic ones given the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titsataki Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 no reason to discard the VW AWD system. they also learned alot in the WRC (skoda that is owned by VW runs in the WRC) cheers Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Wasn't the last time they were in WRC quite a few moons ago? Back in the 80's, maybe early 90's. I doubt much of what was used back then is still present today and used in road cars. I hate electronic replacements for something mechanical in general. More prone to malfunction. Think VW/Audi. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyoneway Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 [quote name='autobahned']Just went to test drive Passat's 4 Motion and learned that it's also a 50/50 distribution like Legacy 5MT, and it has an EDL(Electronic Differential Lock) works closely with ABS Sensor to transferring power from the spinning wheel to the other. In addition, it has a Torsen Differential installed, which is a machanical usnit, sounds perfect with it's 1.8T Longitudinal engine, I don't know much about technical stuff, my question is, which system is more advance? I compare 5MT model only, coz I know Legacy 5EAT got a more advance than that of a 5 MT.[/quote] Audi Quattro is good for pavement and on everyday driving in bad weather conditions... Subaru is good in all surfaces and better than Audi in unpaved roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titsataki Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Wasn't the last time they were in WRC quite a few moons ago? Back in the 80's, maybe early 90's. I doubt much of what was used back then is still present today and used in road cars. I hate electronic replacements for something mechanical in general. More prone to malfunction. Think VW/Audi. :roll:[/quote] They still are in WRC :) Skoda belongs to VAG and it uses very much VW componets. [url]http://skoda.rallye-info.com/article.asp?stid=1974[/url] [img]http://wrc-online.net//images/photos/skoda/fabia/WRC2.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Why do they always seem to have mechanical problems? (OOps, that was an oversight on my par to forget the Skoda-VW relationship.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titsataki Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Why do they always seem to have mechanical problems? [/quote] LOL excellent question :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I actually liked the previous larger Skoda as far as looks are concerned a bit more than the new one. But I like a good sedan/wagon anyhow. Gotta have 4 doors. :D Probably part of the reason I love Subaru's, practicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mines Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I think the most advanced all-wheel drive system is in the japanese Lancer Evolution VIII with the AYC and ADC systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Electronics don't always make things better. Word is, the STi's may recieve some differential treatment this year, but that's just rumor until proven by SOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Electronics don't always make things better. Word is, the STi's may recieve some differential treatment this year, but that's just rumor until proven by SOA.[/quote] and it doesn't always make things worse. If it made it WORSE especially on the performance oriented EVO, then there would be no point in adding it. you could argue that the added benefit may not be worth the additional cost just like the deletion for the US market. I had understood the quattro system to be more advanced and slightly better than Subaru, but it's nothing that I could exploit with my abilities. I wonder how the Torsen and Subaru's mechanical lsd are different. I thought that the Torsen is a type of mechanical lsd. uh oh, now I'm a monkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I saw that monkey rating. ;) I agree on the complication end, but that shows why Mitsu is starting off simple again with virtually a Group N tranny/drivetrain in their mfg class cars at least for the first part of the season with their efforts to reduce the complicated aspects of the car and make things reliable before complicated. Skoda hasn't really figured this out, at least it appears that way over the past couple of years that I've been watching WRC action. They never appear to be a contender. Guess that's part of why I'd like to see the Audi name go back on the car and full Audi backing for WRC. Would probably also help bring a new following to the sport. Think S3. They have the means and the funds to do it, adopting a different name though may help make WRC a bigger name particularly in the U.S. market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolutionmovement Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Audi's moved past rally and has moved on to what I think they consider to be higher profile sports. They won LeMans 3 in a row and rule the ALMS. They are also doing well with lower production-based track racing. Skoda has a stodgy, but tough image and so VW is trying to help remove the stodgy part through the rallying association. I still don't understand why they bother - what's the point of the same car with four names (VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat)? I suppose I could ask this of GM and maybe Ford, too. I understand VW's trying to seperate them now and that's good, but Skoda seems lost. I never understood that purchase or the Bugatti one, for that matter. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='autobahned']Just went to test drive Passat's 4 Motion and learned that it's also a 50/50 distribution like Legacy 5MT, and it has an EDL(Electronic Differential Lock) works closely with ABS Sensor to transferring power from the spinning wheel to the other. In addition, it has a Torsen Differential installed, which is a machanical usnit, sounds perfect with it's 1.8T Longitudinal engine, I don't know much about technical stuff, my question is, which system is more advance? I compare 5MT model only, coz I know Legacy 5EAT got a more advance than that of a 5 MT.[/quote] In the Subaru's favor is the lack of electronic traction control (not to be confused with stability control). If you are stuck in a snow bank, or mud, many traction control systems will cut engine power when wheel slippage is detected (even though the vehicle is not moving), exactly what you do NOT need in such a situation. In the Passat's favor is the availabilty of electronic stability control as an option, which could be a life saver if you hit a patch of ice at speed.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 The VDC stability control is only available in the top of the line Outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapel Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 um... just... yeah... Haldex sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemani Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I want to see a comparison with Honda's SH-AWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 It's almost not fair. To be fair, they'd all have to virtually share the same chassis, rubber, etc to get a decisive winner. For the AWD system that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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