HID FAQ

[gtguy]

[quote name='jaycee']You guys seem to be making my point for me. If HIDs throw more light, reflecting it off objects in front of them and allowing the driver behind them to see better, then they also allow more light into the eyes of the oncoming driver. It seems like basic physics. True, the problem can be minimized if they're properly aimed but that doesn't help when the car goes over bumps or is coming up an incline. They're especially heinous when high off the ground like on a truck or SUV. Put simply, more light coming from the front of your car helps you see, but often reduces the ability of the oncoming driver to see. You can't have it both ways. It would be an interesting leap in technology if the light scattered from a headlight only reached the eyes of the driver of the car in which the light was mounted. When they invent these (and if they aren't too expensive) I'd like to get some. :) That being said - this appears to be an unpopular view in this forum - so let the flaming begin...[/QUOTE] You're absolutely right, particularly about the incline or "high off the ground" comment. But here's something you should learn about this board: Logic doesn't matter. All that matters is arguing your way to the justification for whatever you want to do. So right or wrong, legal in the aftermarket or not is immaterial. All that matters is that people want them, so that's that. Kevin

[BoxerGT2.5]

Keep in mind that alot of cars equiped with HID have auto-leveling headlights to reduce the chance of blinding other drivers. Even equipped on SUV's they are leveled more downward than other vehicles to combat the fact that their ride height will naturally be higher than a sedan so to speak.

[BoxerGT2.5]

[quote name='gtguy']You're absolutely right, particularly about the incline or "high off the ground" comment. But here's something you should learn about this board: Logic doesn't matter. All that matters is arguing your way to the justification for whatever you want to do. So right or wrong, legal in the aftermarket or not is immaterial. All that matters is that people want them, so that's that. Kevin[/QUOTE] The fact is they are not illegal, and there is not one case that anyone can find resulting in death or serious injury due to "blindness" from HID lights. I would not be a proponent of anything that would cause harm to anyone but simply put, poorly aimed halogen lights can be just as blinding as HID lights.

[gtguy]

[quote name='BoxerGT2.5']The fact is they are not illegal, and there is not one case that anyone can find resulting in death or serious injury due to "blindness" from HID lights. I would not be a proponent of anything that would cause harm to anyone but simply put, poorly aimed halogen lights can be just as blinding as HID lights.[/QUOTE] Weren't aftermarket HIDs made illegal this year? If that isn't the case, I stand corrected in that regard. You might not find death or serious injury resulting from being blinded, but if someone has to pull over, or is incapacitated becuase they got a face full of someone's HID lights, is it not still a problem for that affected driver? There is a large gap between someone having to pull over, and death or serious injury. Elderly drivers, as well as people with excessive light sensitivity (such as my wife) are particularly affected by HID output. Don't kid yourself by saying that people aren't "harmed." They might not run into a tree, but for time periods ranging from a few moments to significantly longer, they are seriously affected. Further, it would be one thing if the Legacy's halogens were deficient, but they aren't. And indeed, the different light spectrum that is thrown by HIDs makes them significantly more distressing/distracting than halogens. But as I said, HIDs are cool, so people want them. It doesn't matter what happens to anyone else, which is why I say that people can do what they want with their cars. Kevin

[Kaptan]

[quote name='gtguy']Weren't aftermarket HIDs made illegal this year? If that isn't the case, I stand corrected in that regard. You might not find death or serious injury resulting from being blinded, but if someone has to pull over, or is incapacitated becuase they got a face full of someone's HID lights, is it not still a problem for that affected driver? There is a large gap between someone having to pull over, and death or serious injury. Elderly drivers, as well as people with excessive light sensitivity (such as my wife) are particularly affected by HID output. Don't kid yourself by saying that people aren't "harmed." They might not run into a tree, but for time periods ranging from a few moments to significantly longer, they are seriously affected. Further, it would be one thing if the Legacy's halogens were deficient, but they aren't. And indeed, the different light spectrum that is thrown by HIDs makes them significantly more distressing/distracting than halogens. But as I said, HIDs are cool, so people want them. It doesn't matter what happens to anyone else, which is why I say that people can do what they want with their cars. Kevin[/QUOTE] You are officially the "MOD NAZI" - and yes that goes along with your other so called nicknames. Thank God you are on this board to help those who are considering the likes of an Uppipe or HID's for their Legacy:lol: I for one am so glad you are able to point out the negatives of these "hazardous" mods:rolleyes: AHHHH bright light! bright light! I for one have never heard of an instance where HID's have caused a death or injury. I guess everyone who does this mod should just be careful when installing:lol:

[gtguy]

[quote name='Kaptan']You are officially the "MOD NAZI" - and yes that goes along with your other so called nicknames. Thank God you are on this board to help those who are considering the likes of an Uppipe or HID's for their Legacy:lol: I for one am so glad you are able to point out the negatives of these "hazardous" mods:rolleyes: AHHHH bright light! bright light! I for one have never heard of an instance where HID's have caused a death or injury. I guess everyone who does this mod should just be careful when installing:lol:[/QUOTE] First off, read the post that you quoted more carefully, and you will discover the "death or injury" commentary therein. Second, I'm definitely not the "mod nazi," as some think. I do, however have an adult view on mods, which is, "Own up to it." People offer all sorts of reasons justifying mods that are irresponsible, instead of saying, "I want it because it's cool." There's no valid contention to that assessment, really. I modified my WRX wagon, just because. Were there benefits? Absolutely. But the stock car worked great, and then some. But it sure was cool. Did it need the mod? Hell, no. But it sure was cool. That's what I call owning up to a mod. But that's not what people on message boards do. Instead they offer blather such as "Well, I drive through the seventh circle of Hell on the way home from work, and they haven't installed street lights yet, so the only illumination comes from the burning of the damned. So the GT NEEDS HIDs, and by God, mine is going to get them." Rather than, "They look cool and throw off more light. No, the car doesn't need 'em, but they really look cool. So there. (Sticking out tongue is optional at this moment.)" Kevin

[Kaptan]

You are correct in saying that the GT does not NEED HID lights, but that is one's personal opinion and/or preference. I concur that no vehicle NEEDS HID lights, but do they generally offer better lighting and visability? YES. If you are driving in a rural area where there is the possibility of deer on the road, would HID's offer farther visability? YES. Oh, and did I mention they do happen to look more appealing than halogen lights, but again that is my opinion. I don't think anyone said that HID's are something that are necessary on the GT. There aren't any mods that are considered "necessary", but we do it anyway because we enjoy it and like to be different from the standard factory GT. - Oh, and we like Mad PoWeR!!!111

[gtguy]

HIDs do not automatically offer better visibility, first of all, nor do they throw a farther beam, something that is dictated by the quality of the projector housing. And as far as rural areas, the darker the area, the more effective the light, usually, for the same reason that a match lit in a pitch-black room will throw more light than that same match in a candlelit room. So, we come back to owning up to a mod. "They look cool, and I like them." But please, please don't offer nonsense such as "They light the road better," which isn't always true, and the old "Rural road" baloney. Because really, that just makes me laugh. My view on mods is that they should improve the car, while retaining its quality. I'm anti cat removal because it changes the car's emissions status for the worse. I'm anti HID for more personal reasons, namely I don't want my wife driving around, seeing spots because some person wants to be fashionable. There are good HID systems and bad HID systems. BMW's are excellent, Acura's are probably the worst I have seen, and are also the most annoying when it comes to extraneous light. Audi HID setups are also quite annoying. I don't have the science to understand why BMW's isn't. Might be a lower Kelvin rating, might be a more effective auto-leveling system. But I repeat: Own up to the mod, without offering any mitigating "technical" excuses, because there aren't any. I don't think that's all that difficult. Fashion isn't a bad thing. It drives the women's clothing market as effectively as the auto modification market, but women don't offer "technical" reasons for why they chose a pink sweater instead of a navy blue one. :D Kevin

[gt_ltd]

[quote name='gtguy']There are good HID systems and bad HID systems. BMW's are excellent, Acura's are probably the worst I have seen, and are also the most annoying when it comes to extraneous light. Audi HID setups are also quite annoying. I don't have the science to understand why BMW's isn't. Might be a lower Kelvin rating, might be a more effective auto-leveling system.[/QUOTE] what about Lexus's HID systems? a while ago I was kinda blinded by a cheap Lexus ES here in my place. :( now I need to get mine to blind that owner back... j/k. :p

[gtguy]

[quote name='gt_ltd']what about Lexus's HID systems? a while ago I was kinda blinded by a cheap Lexus ES here in my place. :( now I need to get mine to blind that owner back... j/k. :p[/QUOTE] :D Lexus seems to be all over the place. More recent systems are very nice in terms of annoyance factor. Not surprisingly, American SUVs with HID systems are the worst. I'd love to know the Kelvin ratings of the various automakers systems. What's interesting is that as a cyclist, I am well aware of the value of a nice HID setup. I run a pair of NiteRider HID lights, one on my helmet and one on the bicycle. I used to run NiteRider halogens, but the need to keep from getting squashed in the city required more lighting output. What's interesting though, is that the NiteRider halogen systems put out 15 watts max, while the HID setups put out 40 watts, and the equivalent of about 70 halogen watts. The difference is much like going from a typical USDM 9007 setup to an H7 projector setup. So I do understand the value of HIDs as an improvement. But what's also interesting is that some HID lighting companies who do things for cyclists, are doing floods instead of projector setups, and motorists and fellow riders, I hear, are getting powerful annoyed at those lads, much like some car setups. Kevin

[jaycee]

I also think it's great that people mod their cars. Whether it's to personalize it, make it perform better, improve its look or just make the driver feel better - they're all good reasons. However, I think people with good societal skills think about how something affects other people before they do it. HID headlights are blinding to [I]some[/I] people. My vision tests fine at the optometrist but I personally have had to hit the brakes, turn on my high beams and shield my eyes from oncoming vehicles when their HIDs hit me. A report in the 2004 Consumer Reports Car Buying Guide suggests that I am not alone in that experience. I agree that until they're declared illegal there's probably little that can be done about it. Even then, there will probably be people who do it anyway. I was just thinking that some folks might consider this perspective before they mod. I sympathize with the cop who's nervous approaching a darkly tinted car because he can't see inside. I wouldn't remove my catalytic converter because I'm concerned about children with asthma. I wouldn't put loud pipes on my bike because I respect my neighbor's hearing. And, I wouldn't buy a car with HIDs because I know how blinding they [I]can be[/I] to other drivers. But, that's just me - maybe I got an extra dose of empathy somewhere along the way. :)

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='jaycee']I also think it's great that people mod their cars. Whether it's to personalize it, make it perform better, improve its look or just make the driver feel better - they're all good reasons. However, I think people with good societal skills think about how something affects other people before they do it. HID headlights are blinding to [I]some[/I] people. My vision tests fine at the optometrist but I personally have had to hit the brakes, turn on my high beams and shield my eyes from oncoming vehicles when their HIDs hit me. A report in the 2004 Consumer Reports Car Buying Guide suggests that I am not alone in that experience. I agree that until they're declared illegal there's probably little that can be done about it. Even then, there will probably be people who do it anyway. I was just thinking that some folks might consider this perspective before they mod. I sympathize with the cop who's nervous approaching a darkly tinted car because he can't see inside. I wouldn't remove my catalytic converter because I'm concerned about children with asthma. I wouldn't put loud pipes on my bike because I respect my neighbor's hearing. And, I would buy a car with HIDs because I know how blinding they [I]can be[/I] to other drivers. But, that's just me - maybe I got an extra dose of empathy somewhere along the way. :)[/QUOTE] I think you're just looking at the improperly modded and improperly aimed HID's. Someone with blue tinted halogens aimed incorrectly can seem like HID's when they are in your eyes. Someone that already has HID's can upgrade their bulbs/ballasts. Empathy is great, but I just don't think you know what you're talking about. Think about it like trying to ban rock'n roll because it makes teenagers commit suicide and sodomize each other..

[gtguy]

[quote name='Deer Killer']I think you're just looking at the improperly modded and improperly aimed HID's. Someone with blue tinted halogens aimed incorrectly can seem like HID's when they are in your eyes. Someone that already has HID's can upgrade their bulbs/ballasts. Empathy is great, but I just don't think you know what you're talking about. Think about it like trying to ban rock'n roll because it makes teenagers commit suicide and sodomize each other..[/QUOTE] But if that were the case, the Consumer Reports piece would lead us to believe that there are scads of cars out there with improperly modded and aimed HID systems, which just isn't the case. But if you don't have that particular sensitivity, then everything is fine in your world. Why have empathy? What has THAT ever gained anyone? :D As for the rock and roll analogy, it isn't a particularly apt one. Rock and roll doesn't impair anyone's ability to function, the way seeing spots when you're behind the wheel of your car does. The reality is that many, many people are bothered by the very different (more red) light spectrum that is put out by HIDs. Story after story, which looked at OE HID setups and their effect, have documented this. This is why I say that the only thing people can do is own up to a mod. You can't discount something that you don't understand or haven't expeirenced, using that as a justification for viewing the world your way. Valid points have been raised about HIDs, and none of them will affect anyone's purchasing decision as regards an aftermarket system. Freedom of choice. Kevin

[jaycee]

Well, actually, I didn't expect to really change anyone's opinion - we'll just have to agree to disagree. I do know what I'm talking about but I apparently haven't presented the facts convincingly enough to convert other's thinking. Maybe that will change over time. Thought for the day... "Denial is not just a river in Egypt." Still enjoying the discourse... :cool:

[jerami1981]

I've got a couple quick questions. 1. Where is the best place to get the McCulloch kit afore mentioned. 2. I've read some Hid kits will render you without hi beams..is this true and if so is there a dual beam setup to cover both hi and low. 3. Lastly..since at least a couple of you now have this kit installed, has there been any electrical problems or crazy warning guages coming on. Oh yeah, and i'm a dumb ass who didn't pay enough attention, have any of these kits been installed on the new legacy? Thanks for all your help.

[gtguy]

[quote name='jerami1981']I've got a couple quick questions. 1. Where is the best place to get the McCulloch kit afore mentioned. 2. I've read some Hid kits will render you without hi beams..is this true and if so is there a dual beam setup to cover both hi and low. 3. Lastly..since at least a couple of you now have this kit installed, has there been any electrical problems or crazy warning guages coming on. Oh yeah, and i'm a dumb ass who didn't pay enough attention, have any of these kits been installed on the new legacy? Thanks for all your help.[/QUOTE] 1. Ebay 2. Not so with the Legacy, for it has dual lamps that separate high and low beams. 3. No craziness that anyone knows of. It's worth noting that in the Legacy's fuse box is a slot marked "HID relay." 4. Yes, and people say it's plug-and-play, and bright. Kevin

[jerami1981]

Thank you again for your quick response and complete answer. I am supposed to take possesion of my car on tuesday morning, then the fun begins. If i could just bother you for a last few seconds on this question..can you check out this link and let me know if this is the correct thing or not, i've never been into the HID segment of car modding before, always performance..so i jhust want to make sur ei don't waste $300, so basically just affirm this is an actual HID unit and its what i am looking for please :)..thanks for holding my hand is this troubling time..hopefully i'll shake those newb shoes off once i get the car and tinker a bit on my own.

[gtguy]

They are a McCulloch HID system that people are using and installing. I believe the vendor lets you choose your color temperature, from 4000k (if you just want to see better) to 6000k (less usable light, more bling). Of the people who ran that system on NASIOC, there were some grouses about short bulb life, etc, so be careful to ask about a warranty, and post-purchase service. I try to be helpful, even though I am on record as thinking it's an unnecessary mod. :D Kevin

[jerami1981]

Your opinion of the mod has been so noted and respected. I realize the light gain may not be of the highest gain, but i think it adds a bit of zing to the appearance..at night anyhow and i'm just an excited new owner, well almost, of a sweet looking sports sedan. I know this is off topic for the area so i am not looking for anything in depth, but do you have a 5 spd, and if so have you ever experienced this low rpm blip in power when accelerating moderately to heavily, generally around 2,000 when you gas it?

[gtguy]

[quote name='jerami1981']Your opinion of the mod has been so noted and respected. I realize the light gain may not be of the highest gain, but i think it adds a bit of zing to the appearance..at night anyhow and i'm just an excited new owner, well almost, of a sweet looking sports sedan. I know this is off topic for the area so i am not looking for anything in depth, but do you have a 5 spd, and if so have you ever experienced this low rpm blip in power when accelerating moderately to heavily, generally around 2,000 when you gas it?[/QUOTE] No worries, and no, I haven't experienced the "blip," as you describe it. But many have. Kevin

[Drift Monkey]

Hillarious. This thread still lacks a sticky!

[Drift Monkey]

Still no sticky eh? Figures.

[Deer Killer]

just keep posting :)

[ih8vtec13]

[quote name='jaycee']You forgot one... Q: Do HID lights blind oncoming drivers. A: Absolutely. The intensity of the light combined with the frequency is especially blinding to drivers with blue eyes. You may see better but you're effectively turning the other driver into a Stevie Wonder without the musical talent.[/QUOTE] What do blue eyes have to do with this?

[axis008]

I have no control over this section, but I've requested this to be stickied a while ago!