panamajack Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 , 345s all around here we come. Its true what he says about the times... Last time I auto-x'd there was a Boxster S completely obliterating the field. Stock suspension. Only mod on the car was a set of CCWs with race rubber. Porsche, blah. i'd like to see him do that in a stock Escort. That would be impressive. Porsche on race rubber = jedi-braking force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Well in general I agree with that. But with MAC suspensions its a bit diffrent. When softening the front suspension on a MAC suspension you give the car too much roll and the camber compensation goes to shit. You end up getting more understeer with a softer spring up front past a certain level. In DS class auto-X people actually find that running a stranos 32mm front bar on a WRX actually REDUCES understeer because it keeps dynamic front camber in check. This is completely opposite of normal philosophy but it works because it prevents loss of front camber. This is why some people who use conventional philosophy on a WRX never get rid of terminal understeer because of the diffrences in the MacPhearson Suspension. If you run a flaccid front end and stiff rear end on a MAC suspension the rear will actually have more traction than the front due to camber control. In this case the rear tires will have traction and the front tires will just roll under. Leading to terminal understeer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajack Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 What's a MAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Yeah theres no avoiding it I will take a picture of main street buffalo sometime. The road itself is a pothole. EDIT: OMGWTFBBQ we just did a threadjack Oh, you must be talking about a crater Yeah but the rears will only have about an inch of droop travel as well. Worlds first long wheelbase stoppie? the car will never have either the front axle or rear axle off the ground under braking or on throttle Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 MacPhearson Strut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 What's a MAC? MacPherson Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Well in general I agree with that. But with MAC suspensions its a bit diffrent. When softening the front suspension on a MAC suspension you give the car too much roll and the camber compensation goes to shit. You end up getting more understeer with a softer spring up front past a certain level. In DS class auto-X people actually find that running a stranos 32mm front bar on a WRX actually REDUCES understeer because it keeps dynamic front camber in check. This is completely opposite of normal philosophy but it works because it prevents loss of front camber. This is why some people who use conventional philosophy on a WRX never get rid of terminal understeer because of the diffrences in the MacPhearson Suspension. If you run a flaccid front end and stiff rear end on a MAC suspension the rear will actually have more traction than the front due to camber control. you're also forgetting that many other cars use a McPherson setup (Celica ring a bell in G Stock?). There is a limit to where "too much or too little" doesnt do any good.. that's just the law of diminishing returns. BMW guys also have the same philosophy when it comes to reducing understeer by putting in a larger front sway bar. The idea is to RAISE the level of grip, but the "window of opportunity" for that grip level is now reduced, so it makes more sense to drive the car at the limit, but it's really easy to drive just right over that limit. It comes down to the driver in understanding and determining if the skill of the driver needs to improve (because it's obvious is if the car still comes out with the same times with and without mods, the driver is only fighting the car to get those times). To be effective, the driver has to be consistent in order to troubleshoot the tendencies of what the car does. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Agreed. But in the LGT we are charting some new territory. The rear suspension follows conventional wisdom because of the multilink but the front suspension is a MAC. Maybe its best to tune the LGT using EVO philosophy since the suspension setups are more akin EVO to LGT than the LGT is to the STi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 it shouldnt be any different since you are adjusting the shocks to get the final results of what you really want the car to do... so long as you isolate one change at a time, you'll be fine. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Agreed. But in the LGT we are charting some new territory. The rear suspension follows conventional wisdom because of the multilink but the front suspension is a MAC. Maybe its best to tune the LGT using EVO philosophy since the suspension setups are more akin EVO to LGT than the LGT is to the STi. It's too bad the Evo has a different power split and front LSD, though. Isn't it like 70% front, 30% rear until something slips on the Evo? -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajack Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 ^ Sure doesn't feel that way. But I think you are correct. It is FWD biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Porsche, blah. i'd like to see him do that in a stock Escort. That would be impressive. Porsche on race rubber = jedi-braking force. it's known in the Porsche world as "Hand of God" Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_rex Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 why do people spell tuning tunning? tooning = tuning tuh-ning = tunning. basic phonetics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 EVO is 50/50 Split with an Electronic Diff. Older EVO RS models had a viscous center diff split 50/50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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