Paisan Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Any updates on this? I'm cracking rotors on a fairly regular basis and before I go get Brembos which won't solve my problem, I rather get ducts. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalsleeper Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Holy back from the dead BatMan!!! what rotors you running and what are you doing to crack them? I drive like an A-hole at times and never cracked a stock rotor, I have warped a rotor or two but never cracked. I now run DBA 4000's with HPS pads and Motul no problems with rotor or brake performance. good luck as far as ducting... you can get something started up at HomeDepot Motorsports see if that "helps" you with your crack problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have ran stock w/HPS I have run DBA4000s w/HPS I have run DBA4000s w/HP+ They all crack, with the last setup DBA4000s w/HP+ it took about 4 track days and 5,000 miles of street driving. Braking quality is fine for my needs but cracking rotors ever 4 track days and 5,000 miles on the street isn't too good:( So before I go with brembos I'd rather fix what I have. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalsleeper Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I'm sure that some one who is on the track knows how to mount directional rotors, I won't insult your intelligence. But i have considered the use of NACA ducting from behind the fog assembly and some high temp hosing to the wheel carrier. Some plastic or aluminum or plastic ducts some rivets... Your half way there plus with a bit of time you could mold some fiber glass to make a nice fitting part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Oh I know how to mount the rotors, been in the brake business on Subies for years. Also have been tracking cars for years as well. The problem is from the track (repeated 120->40mph brake zones) for 30+ min sessions. Just seeing what's out there in terms of bolt-on parts so I don't have to fab up new stuff. Suprized that no one out there has done ducts on the LGT yet though -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackhore Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Just seeing what's out there in terms of bolt-on parts so I don't have to fab up new stuff. Suprized that no one out there has done ducts on the LGT yet though Too small of a market. Now that the WRX, STi platform is based on the legacy, you should see some more product innovation come our way. RCE has been promising protypes to TIC for quite some time. Not sure if they ever got them or what the current status of developement is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalsleeper Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I work on cars for a living and it is to bad that those brakes don't fit on subies. Carbon ceramic rotors, there light and work great under high temps. Look pretty cool at the track when they light up in the brake zone. Good luck I might fab some thing up soon I'll let you know how that turns out I can get the ducts pretty easy. Off of broken underbody panels but the ducts are still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Cool, any thoughts on if any of the WRX/STi directors that bolt on the knuckles would work on our knuckles? The ducting and intakes don't need to be pretty for my track days, just functional. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 We are working on these actually and yes they will fit the legacy GT. Our fabricator works for Penske and so its been a slow process since he is so busy. But we did the original alloy version and then he flow tested it and made it better then we made it out of carbon for the current GD version. These are designed to channel air to the center of the disc which kools the rotor from within. http://www.rcephotos.com/photos/albums/album54/Racecomp_Engineering_Brake_Ducts_3.sized.jpg Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Myle, Can I ask what your opinion is of the rotor dust shield on the LGTs? Would you take it off/cut it off? I've thought of doing this (I've bent it away from the rotors, but not removed it). One though I had is maybe it acts a little like a heat shield for some of the bearing/bushing areas so maybe in that respect it's good. Definitely interested in the ducts if you get LGT sets. Let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Found some websites with some good/interesting examples, etc. http://www2.zhome.com:81/ZCMnL/PICS/BrakeDucts/ducts.html Another interesting one, though not directing it to the center. http://robrobinette.com/S2000BrakeDucts.htm Don't think this one would provide direct enough air (nor if it would really be feasible on our car), but interesting: http://www.louv.tv/cars/m5/ducts/ What's the simplest way to measure flow? Something like a MAF sensor? Would just be curious for various intake (supply side) setups measuring effectiveness. Anyone ever mess around with NACA ducts? http://www.pitstopusa.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=2581 2" vs 3": Anyone have thoughts on 2" vs 3"? Could you get enough flow for recreational track driving out of 2"? Just seems a lot easier to route duct, though seems aweful small.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 We are working on these actually and yes they will fit the legacy GT. Our fabricator works for Penske and so its been a slow process since he is so busy. But we did the original alloy version and then he flow tested it and made it better then we made it out of carbon for the current GD version. These are designed to channel air to the center of the disc which kools the rotor from within. Thanks! Any idea on when they would be available? Are we talking weeks, months, or a year? Just trying to gauge the magnitude of the delay. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buru Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 how much are those carbon ducksss mee wants!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 $339 (at least the STI ones) http://www.racecompengineering.com/item.asp?subcategory=Brake+Rotors+and+Components Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buru Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 me likes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Myle, Can I ask what your opinion is of the rotor dust shield on the LGTs? Would you take it off/cut it off? I've thought of doing this (I've bent it away from the rotors, but not removed it). One though I had is maybe it acts a little like a heat shield for some of the bearing/bushing areas so maybe in that respect it's good. Definitely interested in the ducts if you get LGT sets. Let me know. Yeah it holds heat in during performance driving which is bad, but protects the rotor on dirt roads and gravel. I would remove it. There are 4 hub bolts that have to come off first which is a pita. Mw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Thanks! Any idea on when they would be available? Are we talking weeks, months, or a year? Just trying to gauge the magnitude of the delay. -mike Any idea on an ETA? -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/110245328.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/110245448.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/110245471.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 This is after 3-4 track days and 5k miles.... DBA4000s Hawk HP+ -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Those surface cracks are typical if you're pushing the rotors (e.g. track)...happened on my DBAs...Brakeswap guys said don't worry about it, they're fine to use. I did a bunch more miles and more track time on the rotors. Just check your rotor thickness and also look for any signs of deeper propogating cracks, often starting at the slots (Xenonk posted a good pic of his DBAs when they finally died on him, and there was a bigger crack starting at the slot). If you see anything like that, then definitely stop using them. I'll let experts chime in. On a side note, there are different theories on rotors. I find some guys who recreationally track a lot sometimes just buy more basic rotors (e.g. OEM or close for a good price) as they know they'll go through them, instead of pouring lots of dough in to real fancy high end rotors (e.g. 2-piece, etc.). I think with a good set of brake ducts, even OEM rotors with track pads would be fine (heck, I think Xenonk raced on OEM rotors) for the weekend recreational tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Any idea on an ETA? -mike Well once the 08 STI ducts are done, thats it. I would say months. This is the thing to consider and maybe its getting better, but I dont know. 3 years ago we introduced the FIRST brake cooling ducts for the GD Impreza. Considering how many STi and WRX's are out there being tracked, you would think we couldnt keep up with production.....? NOPE. The ducts are the least popular RCE product by far...AND yet there are so many brake fade and pad killing references on the net. The reality is that alot of guys who track their cars just wont go to the next level for brake cooling AND...this is the most important part about ME saying this; I understand and it is what it is. I dont expect people to make that level of commitment for a street driven car. With that said....if we produced these within 3 weeks and offered them...we would sell .......about....10 or so, then they would trickle in a few here and a few there...for the rest of the year. I dont think we lack anything in the marketing dept just that there is a line drawn between "enthusiast" and "hardcore". Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well once the 08 STI ducts are done, thats it. I would say months. This is the thing to consider and maybe its getting better, but I dont know. 3 years ago we introduced the FIRST brake cooling ducts for the GD Impreza. Considering how many STi and WRX's are out there being tracked, you would think we couldnt keep up with production.....? NOPE. The ducts are the least popular RCE product by far...AND yet there are so many brake fade and pad killing references on the net. The reality is that alot of guys who track their cars just wont go to the next level for brake cooling AND...this is the most important part about ME saying this; I understand and it is what it is. I dont expect people to make that level of commitment for a street driven car. With that said....if we produced these within 3 weeks and offered them...we would sell .......about....10 or so, then they would trickle in a few here and a few there...for the rest of the year. I dont think we lack anything in the marketing dept just that there is a line drawn between "enthusiast" and "hardcore". Myles Having been HPDEing for well over 500 track days and raced both an impreza in ST and a 1st Gen Legacy in ST with NASA and having actually tracked with you down at Summit and VIR, and owning my own shop that does upgrades on Subarus, I agree 100% with your assessment of what folks will and will not buy. Having this experience, this is why I've been fighting going to the Brembos for my car, I simply do not buy into the bling factors that 90% of the folks out there buy into in terms of car performance. That's why I've been looking for a way to cool them. If you told me they'd be here in a month or 2 I'd probably wait around for em and live with what I have now, what I will likely do is come up with a home-made setup from homedepot to get more air over the rotors and see how that does, if it still is an issue, I'll revisit and see what the next step in my quest is. Thanks again for your help and insight! -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is what eventually happened to my dba4000 after repeated abuse at the track... http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/TRS60586/Misc%20Legacy/DSCN0205-1.jpg Fortunately, it cracked after I loaded up everything and was leaving the track at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Those surface cracks are typical if you're pushing the rotors (e.g. track)...happened on my DBAs...Brakeswap guys said don't worry about it, they're fine to use. I did a bunch more miles and more track time on the rotors. Just check your rotor thickness and also look for any signs of deeper propogating cracks, often starting at the slots (Xenonk posted a good pic of his DBAs when they finally died on him, and there was a bigger crack starting at the slot). If you see anything like that, then definitely stop using them. I'll let experts chime in. On a side note, there are different theories on rotors. I find some guys who recreationally track a lot sometimes just buy more basic rotors (e.g. OEM or close for a good price) as they know they'll go through them, instead of pouring lots of dough in to real fancy high end rotors (e.g. 2-piece, etc.). I think with a good set of brake ducts, even OEM rotors with track pads would be fine (heck, I think Xenonk raced on OEM rotors) for the weekend recreational tracker. Yup, we've found that the Mountain rotors wor best on the WRXs, inexpensive and fairly strong. I can't get em for the LGT yet though. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Interesting opinion on 2-piece with curved vanes. Anyone have good facts on how much they really help cooloing vs stock or DBA 4000 type layout ("kangaroo")? 1) I would think wider opening and the curved vanes would really help, but some have seemed to downplay this. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2026453 Just thinking that if, say, 2.5" ducts (I realize that's a little small) give me a 10~15% improvement in temps and the 2-piece with curved vanes give me another 10%, that would be sufficent for what I do. Thoughts? 2) If 80 mph gives me really good flow, what happens at 120 mph? Do the ducts get over driven and pop off or blow out (maybe that's unlikely, but....)? Just thinking there could be some real pressure issues. I guess you're hoping that the rotors are expelling that extra air at those speeds, but.... Also, I'm debating the possiblity of dropping a small low profile duct down in the airstream at a spot under the car (but still near the front) and thinking about the extreme pressure it would be under (even if it's a smaller intake than normal). The setup would be just for the track. 3) How important is the intake shape if it's in the fog socket area? Say, if you removed the foglights and cover but just put a flat piece in the back of that whole area with an opening, how much less flow would that give vs a funnel shape at the back of the fog area? 10%? 40%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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