Article critical of AWD

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='frontrangeSubie']puleez....only one way to make it up our mountain road in Colorado....AWD/4WD.....Snowtires don't mean a hill of beans on a FWD car on these type roads. Mark Woodland Park, CO 8600 feet elevation[/quote] What about a FWD car with a LSD? :P

[scubie02]

[quote name='outahere'] Subaru also claims that AWD provides better tracking (less yaw motion) when driving on slippery roads.[/quote] And that is true. I sometimes get a bit tired of the endless "awd isn't REALLY any better in the snow" refrain--its almost always from someone who doesn't have and often has never even driven awd. Yes, of course you still want decent snows in the white stuff, but the difference between an awd car and something else can be night and day. I'm old enough that most cars had rwd when I was growing up. Anybody who's driven one much in bad snow storms knows how easily they can lose the rear end when driving--hit a big pile of slushy stuff that suddenly appears in the snow and you will often start fishtailing. FWD often does a little better at this, but awd is definitely the best at staying "balanced" and not losing it in that situation in the first place. Acceleration is obviously not even on the same planet. In turning there can still be somewhat of an advantage, and even in stopping if you're just talking a slow downshift rather than emergency handling as someone else stated you at least have the engine drag working evenly on all 4 wheels. awd doesn't make you bulletproof of negate the laws of physics in the snow, but it does make a HUGE difference.

[KayGT]

yea awd is very misunderstood. many people think they're invisible...i kno because i felt that way too...and the legacy GT could make u feel superinvisible....but remember that stopping time is the same for all cars and your not driving a snowmobile....it's still a car and you will lose control right away if u dont take the neccesary precautions of driving slow in snow. My advise is that if u live in a winter state....during your first snowfall go to an empty parking lot and experiment with awd...you'll see that you have more control than other cars but you will lose control too.

[rockford33]

[quote name='krzyss']There is cheaper solution to going uphill in snow than AWD. What tires did you have on your Sunfire ? If these were not winter tires the simple change of tires would make wonders. AWD with winter tires is even better on snow and ice. Krzys[/quote] Admittedly, the tires sucked, but then again, so did the car. I was looking to get rid of it anyway as I can't get the check engine light to go out and it started stalling out on me (and it isn't worth taking it to the dealer to fix). This is on a car with only 70,000 miles, but plenty of dry rot (I had wires to my distrubutor dry rotted and short while driving) I didn't want to get new tires for just a few months of use. I got a windfall, so I was able to pay cash for my LGT and will be donating the Sunbird (even worse than a Sunfire).

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='KayGT']yea awd is very misunderstood. many people think they're invisible...i kno because i felt that way too...and the legacy GT could make u feel superinvisible....but remember that stopping time is the same for all cars and your not driving a snowmobile....it's still a car and you will lose control right away if u dont take the neccesary precautions of driving slow in snow. My advise is that if u live in a winter state....during your first snowfall go to an empty parking lot and experiment with awd...you'll see that you have more control than other cars but you will lose control too.[/quote] I never feel invisible when I drive. :? Thanks for the advise though.

[praedet]

[quote]yea awd is very misunderstood. many people think they're invisible...i kno because i felt that way too...and the legacy GT could make u feel superinvisible....but remember that stopping time is the same for all cars and your not driving a snowmobile....it's still a car and you will lose control right away if u dont take the neccesary precautions of driving slow in snow. My advise is that if u live in a winter state....during your first snowfall go to an empty parking lot and experiment with awd...you'll see that you have more control than other cars but you will lose control too.[/quote] I know what you meant, but I got a funny picture in my head of many car wrecks due to the "invisible" drivers. Now, what is the difference between invisible, and super invisible. I am guessing the x-ray glasses only work with regular invisibility... Ted

[aikibob1]

frankcal used the words I was thinking of in regards to people who equate the ability to go with the ability to control when road conditions call for good judgement. We haven't reached the point where auto designs can completely overcome stupidity and ignorance... wonder if we ever will?

[IwantaLGTsti]

Ok, I'm confused. Why is everyone driving a Subaru when it seems that the majority here have been convinced by a fluff article that AWD offers little or no safety benefit? As someone who has driven a 3000GT VR4 for the last 7 ski seasons I can state unequivocally that AWD is a safety feature. True, it provides a negligible stopping advantage (extra drive train braking as PPower pointed out). But it most certainly does help around corners! I certainly wouldn't make 50+ mph turns at rain-soaked intersection with 2WD. I'll grant that one must still respect the conditions, especially snow, but AWD is extra insurance. I think the fallacy about it being of no use on corners assumes zero throttle application for both vehicles. Under this stipulation I would agree, but how many people drive like this and why would you if you don't have to? Similar benefits apply when encountering small patches of sand and snow, or bumps that do not extend across both axles. For "ultimate" control in the snow, AWD should be accompanied by 3 limited slip differentials (VR4 has two) and dedicated snow tires. Incidentally, I have to disagree with those who think that computer control is ALWAYS better. Some ABS systems (perhaps not the more recent ones) increase the stopping distance considerably due to excessive pumping action. I take extra care in the snow to prevent ABS from actuating otherwise I'll have to file a flight plan with my intended arrival (stopping) time.

[gtguy]

It seems that the fundamental points of the article, which have already been stated, is that AWD does not make you invincible. We see SUVs in ditches after snowstorms as proof of that (though many are 4WD instead of AWD). More importantly, we saw that the first winter of the WRX's arrival and the posts of "Hey, I crashed in the snow...what gives?" There is also a post on this very board about a hydroplaning situation. The member hit some standing water at about 80-90 mph, and bye, bye, Legacy GT. Another member posted some surprise that this would have happened, but indeed, AWD does not contravene the laws of physics. As far as people not applying any throttle mid-corner, the great majority of drivers don't. Watch your fellow man as he drives. Almost invariably, he will approach the corner, get on the brakes to slow down for the corner, and then, in effect, he will coast through the corner. It's why Europeans are driven insane by U.S. drivers, and why enthusiast drivers are driven insane by those same motorists. Circumspection and self-control are always the answers. Leave plenty of margin for error, and all will be well. AWD does indeed make some people stupid, unfortunately. Kevin

[Max Capacity]

Kevin, good point about drivers and corners. Drives me nuts. My license plate is GOT SNO I know the benifits of AWD and have to many story's to list here as to how it has been a asset while I'm driving to VT every weekend in the winter. I have driven in it all and on ice AWD is the only way to go. As for ABS again To many stories. But I will tell one. Last winter while traveling in the left lane on RT91 in VT just below exit 5 in about 3" of snow at about 45mph we came overthe hill before the exit. In the median at the bottom of the hill was a semi backwards and a state cop on the side of the highway. There was a line of cars in the right lane. I had no where to go. I said here goes ABS. I stood on the peddle and stopped by the cop and told him he should call someone to put flares out on the other side of the hill so people know your down here. AWD and ABS the only way to go.