Oil Level Issue - After oil change

[MLB-DIY]

Ok I am at a complete loss what has happened. I drained my oil. Replaced the filter. Put in just under 7 quarts. 
I checked dip stick and shows I am way over the fill mark! I figured I just need to start it to fill the filter. But after starting it, shutting off after 30 seconds. Checked the level and still way overfilled. 
So using a small diameter hose down the dipstick tube I extracted about 1/2 a quart. But the level on the dip stick is not changing. So I jacked it up again and drained some from the oil pan. After about 1 quart the amount coming out slowed to a stop. Now no more oil drains from the pan! And the dip stick still shows overfilled by the same amount! 
Is it possible I have a defective oil filter? Where is the 5+ quarts of oil if not in the pan?

I am stumped what’s going on here. Any thoughts?

[silverton]

Can you take a picture of the drain plug you're using to drain the oil?

[ammcinnis]

5 hours ago, MLB-DIY said:

Any thoughts?

Do not attempt to drive the car until this problem is addressed!  Almost certainly, you removed the wrong drain plug and drained the CVT instead of the engine. Was this your first DIY oil change in the car?

Probably the best course of action at this point is to have your Legacy flatbedded to the nearest Subaru dealer or Subaru-competent independent shop.

[MLB-DIY]

6 hours ago, silverton said:

Can you take a picture of the drain plug you're using to drain the oil?

I could but it is in the oil pan at the moment. But if your concern is I drained the wrong place, not to worry, I’ve been changing oil in cars since I was 12 years old. That’s 52 years of experience. I am a highly accomplished mechanic. I’ve never run into this situation in those 52 years.

The only other work I was doing at the same time was replacement of a faulty VVT control solenoid - Bank B exhaust to address a P000b code that pops up occasionally. Sometimes followed by a P0014 both which point to the same flakey solenoid. However that work should have no impact on this really weird situation. 
When I drained the oil I got nearly a full 7quarts. Although I haven’t measured it. Maybe I should.

But knowing I put in about 7qts. and subsequently drained back out about 1.5qts. There still needs to be 5+ qts in there somewhere. How can it not be sitting in the pan? Maybe the pan has a baffle design that could hold back the oil? I’ll try to find a drawing of the pan.
 

[MLB-DIY]

4 hours ago, ammcinnis said:

Do not attempt to drive the car until this problem is addressed!  Almost certainly, you removed the wrong drain plug and drained the CVT instead of the engine. Was this your first DIY oil change in the car?

Probably the best course of action at this point is to have your Legacy flatbedded to the nearest Subaru dealer or Subaru-competent independent shop.

See my reply to Silverton. 

[silverton]

57 minutes ago, MLB-DIY said:

I could but it is in the oil pan at the moment. But if your concern is I drained the wrong place, not to worry, I’ve been changing oil in cars since I was 12 years old. That’s 52 years of experience. I am a highly accomplished mechanic. I’ve never run into this situation in those 52 years.

The only other work I was doing at the same time was replacement of a faulty VVT control solenoid - Bank B exhaust to address a P000b code that pops up occasionally. Sometimes followed by a P0014 both which point to the same flakey solenoid. However that work should have no impact on this really weird situation. 
When I drained the oil I got nearly a full 7quarts. Although I haven’t measured it. Maybe I should.

But knowing I put in about 7qts. and subsequently drained back out about 1.5qts. There still needs to be 5+ qts in there somewhere. How can it not be sitting in the pan? Maybe the pan has a baffle design that could hold back the oil? I’ll try to find a drawing of the pan.
 

I don't care where the drain plug is, you can take a photo of it. If you can't take a photo of it, at the very least tell me what size socket you needed to remove it. I mean no offense by this but I also dont really care how many years experience you have, we all can make mistakes.

If you did in fact drain the engine oil, there would be no reason for it to be that far over full. The oil capacity is 7 quarts with new filter, 6.9 i know, but even if you put 7 quarts in the oil level should not be above the full mark.

[MLB-DIY]

Ok maybe I am a fool 

Thinking about it, you might be right. I suppose I could have drained the CVT oil. Nothing else makes sense. If so I have definitely made a costly error in oil. I have contaminated the new oil with the old. And I’ll need to buy 5 or 6 qts. of Subaru CVT oil. That’s another $50 down the drain.

I understand the process to replace the CVT oil is a little complicated. I doubt my code reader has the required temperature monitoring. Plus I am not working on a lift, just jack stands. This is going to be a PITA.

 

[MLB-DIY]

7 minutes ago, silverton said:

I don't care where the drain plug is, you can take a photo of it. If you can't take a photo of it, at the very least tell me what size socket you needed to remove it. I mean no offense by this but I also dont really care how many years experience you have, we all can make mistakes.

If you did in fact drain the engine oil, there would be no reason for it to be that far over full. The oil capacity is 7 quarts with new filter, 6.9 i know, but even if you put 7 quarts in the oil level should not be above the full mark.

I think you are right. I think I screwed up. The plug was a 14mm. I suspect you’re going to tell me that’s the CVT drain plug.

[silverton]

2 minutes ago, MLB-DIY said:

I think you are right. I think I screwed up. The plug was a 14mm. I suspect you’re going to tell me that’s the CVT drain plug.

You are unfortunately correct, the 14mm is the CVT pan drain plug, the engine oil is a 17mm.. You will need to have the car towed to a shop that can do a CVT service on your vehicle before it is driven.  DO NOT run the vehicle any more than you have. Also be sure that if you take it to an indy shop that is not subaru specific that your vehicle takes high torque cvt fluid.

[MLB-DIY]

So you’re saying I cannot re-fill the fluid myself and go through the steps to fully prime all the pumps and then top off the fluid once the temperature of 45c is reached? 
 

[silverton]

If you have the prowess to do so, sure you could. the unfortunate part is you'll have to buy a 5 gallon bucket of the high torque fluid as they don't sell it in quarts. 

but yeah, when cold; fill til fluid comes out of the filler hole, plug it.  start it, wait for fluid temp to reach ~30 degrees celcius, shift it from drive to reverse a few times, staying in each gear for about 5-10 seconds. when I do it i remove the fill plug at 35C, top up... that generally drops fluid temp a degree or two, and then let it drip drip drip til I watch it cross from 45 to 46C.

[MLB-DIY]

Ok good input. Thanks and I’ll get it straightened out. Feel like an idiot for such a stupid mistake. But I’ll get over it. It’s just time and money. Guess why I never had this happen in the past 52 years is I never blew it like this before

[silverton]

Be certain that you purchase CVT-HT from Subaru, and not CVTF2 or 3. As far as I know there are no aftermarket alternatives to CVT-HT.  Using the incorrect CVT fluid will ruin the transmission. I haven't done enough high torque cvt fluid replacements to have it logged in memory, but you will need either an H8 or H10 for the fill plug, the non-HT transmission fill plugs are H8's so I'm 70% certain they are the same. Here is the location of the fill plug:

So long as you learn from your mistakes it will be okay.

[waldguy]

Ya, you're not the first one to make this mistake.  https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/oops-drained-the-wrong-fluid.396754/.

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/panic-i-drained-the-wrong-plug-during-oil-change.471721/

It is possible to re-fill the tranny yourself, but be sure you have the exact amount of Subaru fluid you need to put in, and the temperature right.  You don't want to be guessing.  The upside is, your tranny gets a fluid refresh (not full change).

Edited June 25 by waldguy

[MLB-DIY]

Well finding anything other than the 5 gal. Bucket of HT fluid has been impossible. Both dealers I called refused to sell to me in my own containers. One said, just go to Napa. But wouldn’t say what brand to buy. So after a ton of research I find Valvoline spec. list as fully compatible with the TR690. 
I also find Amsoil as a potential but they don’t specify HT like Valvoline does.

See spec below. I seem to have limited choices otherwise and buying by the quart online not knowing how much I will need would be painfully expensive and difficult.

[silverton]

TR690's are also in some 2.5L equipped models taking CVTF-2. As far as I know CVTF2, 3, and LV are not compatible with the HT that the 3.6, WRX and turbo Forester are spec'd for. It might work out for you but is not a risk I would take with my own car.

It's generally not a good idea to mix fluids, so I can only suggest you refill with what's already in there.

[MLB-DIY]

Ok I give in. I am calling AAA and having it towed to the local dealership and have them replace the fluid. I feel totally defeated. I have never succumbed to this approach on even the most difficult of jobs. But having no option to buy the correct fluid locally and after adding up the cost to buy online + shipping and my labor it appears letting the dealer do it will actually limit my losses at the moment.

I can’t believe a small lapse of attention has led to this.

[Infosecdad]

It could have been much worse... You could have tried to drive with it like that.

While "losing" a couple hundred bucks isn't fun, replacing the CVT or Engine adds a nasty multiplier...

[MoleMan]

OP.

 

Seems your issue is solved.  But in the future I would not check the final level on the dipstick until the car sits overnight to get the true reading.  

We are all assuming you have a 3.6 with the 7 quarts.  So hopefully you do.  

Where I am lost is you said you checked the oil dipstick and you were way over the fill mark.  Once again we are all assuming you have a 3.6.  If you have the 2.5 then your overfill would seem correct for that engine.  By you saying you checked the dipstick and you were over tells me that we have an issue.

So let's say you made a mistake and drained the CVT fluid.  Mistakes will be made.  But then your engine oil is still overfilled.  So sorta lost here.  So now you seem to have two issues to address.

Not trying to be the asshole here.  But just going off info in the posting.

[MLB-DIY]

@MoleMan I did make the mistake of draining the CVT fluid. Then not knowing this I put in 6.9qts of new oil which essentially meant the oil pan now had roughly 13-14qts! That’s why it was way overfilled on the dip stick.

Since then I drained back out 7qts to get back to proper fill level. Then had it towed to the dealership to address the CVT fluid. 
My mistake and has a cost associated as follows:

7 qts of Mobile1 =$56

Mobile1 Oil Filter=$15

CVT Refill at Dealer=$550

Towing (AAA)=$10

SubTotal: $631+tax Grand Total=$678

I do want to thank everyone who assisted in my dilemma. I have learned from the experience.

[TomahawkLabs]

1 hour ago, MLB-DIY said:

@MoleMan I did make the mistake of draining the CVT fluid. Then not knowing this I put in 6.9qts of new oil which essentially meant the oil pan now had roughly 13-14qts! That’s why it was way overfilled on the dip stick.

Since then I drained back out 7qts to get back to proper fill level. Then had it towed to the dealership to address the CVT fluid. 
My mistake and has a cost associated as follows:

7 qts of Mobile1 =$56

Mobile1 Oil Filter=$15

CVT Refill at Dealer=$550

Towing (AAA)=$10

SubTotal: $631+tax Grand Total=$678

I do want to thank everyone who assisted in my dilemma. I have learned from the experience.

costly mistake, but significantly cheaper than a new High Torque CVT. If it's consolation when I did my rotors/pads I neglected to fully torque down the caliper to the bracket and now I have a light ring in my wheel barrel as a reminder to always check if everything torqued.

[MLB-DIY]

Actually the best way I can look at this is the car has 75k miles on it and the CVT fluid has never been changed. So it was due anyway. Even though the quality and color of what was drained looked pristine. Which you’d never know if you didn’t take the chance to drain and replace it. 

[TomahawkLabs]

16 minutes ago, MLB-DIY said:

Actually the best way I can look at this is the car has 75k miles on it and the CVT fluid has never been changed. So it was due anyway. Even though the quality and color of what was drained looked pristine. Which you’d never know if you didn’t take the chance to drain and replace it. 

Forced maintenance is still maintenance. 

[ammcinnis]

11 hours ago, MLB-DIY said:

I do want to thank everyone who assisted in my dilemma. I have learned from the experience.

Be assured that far from being the first, you're among the many who have made the same mistake. (This includes my closest neighbor, who did the same thing on the first oil change is his almost-new Forester. Luckily, he called me before he had driven the car farther than the length of his driveway. His solution was the same as yours, and the Forester is still running fine a year and several cross-continent trips later.) The good news is that you realized something was wrong and acted before any permanent damage was incurred.

[MoleMan]

13 hours ago, MLB-DIY said:

@MoleMan I did make the mistake of draining the CVT fluid. Then not knowing this I put in 6.9qts of new oil which essentially meant the oil pan now had roughly 13-14qts! That’s why it was way overfilled on the dip stick.

Since then I drained back out 7qts to get back to proper fill level. Then had it towed to the dealership to address the CVT fluid. 
My mistake and has a cost associated as follows:

7 qts of Mobile1 =$56

Mobile1 Oil Filter=$15

CVT Refill at Dealer=$550

Towing (AAA)=$10

SubTotal: $631+tax Grand Total=$678

I do want to thank everyone who assisted in my dilemma. I have learned from the experience.

Gotcha.  Makes more sense now.

Just a observation. The M1 filters are now made by Mann & Hummel and no longer made by Champion Labs.  I tend to use OEM on the 3.6 as far as the filter but all the other cars get M1 filters. Just never put a Fram POS oil filter on the car. Just saying this out of experience.