Flxr_88 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I’ve been noticing a stumble every now and again at idle. I know of a hose that broke off and was previously epoxied. So obviously there is a leak, but I borrowed one of the evap smoke testers and I found nothing, not even hooking it up to another spot and seeing it come through that hose. I was wondering if I should worry about this or if I’m doing this wrong. I have a 93 octane stage 1 on there for my sf air intake which now gives me no problems, no check engine light, and a decompressing sound on shutoff. I circled some pieces that I found to be broken, or missing completely. I do have the nipple that connects to the front most epoxied broken part on the intake manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Yes you should worry and yes you should fix it. You'll need a new intake manifold and the hoses/fittings as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 +1 to ^^^ The number of weirdly capped off hoses and broken stuff there is scary. Probably save yourself a lot of headache with a fresh IM, and some new vacuum hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 17 Author Share Posted May 17 (edited) Got it. I thought it looked too “messy” to be original. I know from looking back at receipts of what the old owner had done, when they replaced the head gaskets the tech noted that they had to epoxy back on “a few hoses”. But replacing wise, I should be able to find a manifold from any 2.5L wrx or other legacy right? Edited May 17 by Flxr_88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Legacy is kind of the best bet. The aluminum ones look flash but they hold heat better than the resin ones that came on our cars. Less heat soak means cooler charge air = less knock etc.... Nothing wrong with the WRX manifold that I know of, but I do not know personally if all the connections are the same, or in the same place/would use the stock style hoses? I would think you won't have to pay too much for a Legacy IM in the classifieds here, etc... I can even have a look around the parts bin, and I may have one available. I know i have one, but you know how it goes with spare parts. 2=1 and 1=none. Lol! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 17 Author Share Posted May 17 I took a look around and I probably should go with the legacy manifold for ease of install like you said. My next question would be, do I go with a complete manifold with the hoses, or buy just the upper manifold as my throttle body is actually in good shape, and buy a vacuum hose kit. this is the IM I found with the hoses: https://www.ebay.com/itm/404876524696?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1GIv1y3tAQt-m9GlDRUUZ0Q21&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404876524696&targetid=1644837434363&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9018793&poi=&campaignid=21214270471&mkgroupid=159705723285&rlsatarget=pla-1644837434363&abcId=9407517&merchantid=6296724&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh9hwG1oqPY2fT6n0NcK7bPFe&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgJyyBhCGARIsAK8LVLOY8i6UR-ubWwkhAVbZqtBaKxF21kFoPKPO7xezZJ27p0CICSmoZ8EaAmmVEALw_wcB Apart from this one I’ve seen the upper IM without hardware or anything else included for around $80 and some hose kits for the lgt for around $45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 I wouldn't pay more for a manifold with hoses attached. More than liklely they're not in any better shape than the ones that are on your car currently. (Age/heat cycling etc....) On the way to work the other day, I lost my boost reference. I'd just done a mild engine refresh and while I replaced most of the hoses, one that I did not, from the manifold to the vacuum/boost sending unit blew off the manifold at ~13 psi. I got it back on and zip tied it, but that hose is hard. Going to have to replace it. Since you're going to go to the trouble of taking off the IM, and presumabley replacing gaskets and the like, I would suggest just getting new hoses for the cost and peace of mind. It's an annoying enough job you don't want to have to go back in there later to reinstall crusty old hoses you didn't do the first time (like me....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 17 Author Share Posted May 17 Completely understand. I will look for a IM that is in good shape unless you find an extra. Vacuum hose wise, should I buy the anchillary set, or the large roll? Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 I was able to replace most everthing with a roll of high quality 4mm vacuum hose for the small lines and some 6mm (?) for the larger ones. But look closely while you're working. There are some that are different sizes on both ends. I had easy access to adaptor barbed fittings for those few lines, but I was also (for example) adapting exising vacuum lines down to the 1/8" barbs on a Grimmspeed BCS. If you can get a kit that cover most or all of the hoses and lines for what seems like a reasonable price, that may be the way to go. I just had everything totally apart, so I had the luxury of taking time and making things work. I also changed some routing and deleted stuff to suit the things I have changed over time. YMMV. But I do think any effort to save that IM is wasted. Grab a new one and go from there. I'm in Canada, so with shipping + customs, etc... I expect you'll be able to find a deal on Ebay a lot faster than I can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 17 Author Share Posted May 17 Got it. I have nothing else done to the engine bay except a iag aos as a gift and the cai so I’ll pick up a roll. The sets are around $180. I see some barebone IM for $80 so I’ll probably pick up one of those. I have seen other people upgrade their turbo inlet, and I was wondering if I should or shouldn’t because I heard it would be a “while you’re in there” type of install, or if it even would be worth it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 If yours looks like it has even begun to think about tearing, replace it while your there. They’re a common item to fail. My OE one was looking tired at 170k kms. Shop around, I got a used, like-new Perrin for a great price on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 Perfect. I ordered the IM and should be here soon. I also ordered 10ft of 4mm and 6mm hose, ill get more if I need but I'll start with this. I also picked up a perrin turbo inlet. I got it for a pretty good price, and I think that might be because it doesn't come with the elbows. Would I be able to use the elbows from the stock inlet? Or would I have to find/buy some. Also, installing the inlet once the IM is off is mainly just matching up hoses for the new spots, or is there something I should look out for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 Everything came and I installed everything this afternoon. Perrin turbo inlet, new IM and all new vacuum hoses. I now have a P2006 Right side tgv stuck closed and no boost. I also don’t hear any turbo spool and it seems thumpy, instead of spooking. When I release off the accelerator you hear a high pitched pressure release sound, and when I coast, I sit at 2k rpms. Safe to say the car is going to rest for now, but I also heard the same type of pressure releasing leak as I had before. Where it’s really loud, and you can hear it equalizing after shutoff. Would this vacuum leak be the source of the issue, or am I missing something else possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 11 hours ago, Flxr_88 said: P2006 Right side tgv stuck closed and no boost You didn't actually drive the car with this did you? 11 hours ago, Flxr_88 said: When I release off the accelerator you hear a high pitched pressure release Depending on how it sounds, this is normal, should be the BPV venting back into the intake manifold. 11 hours ago, Flxr_88 said: Where it’s really loud, and you can hear it equalizing after shutoff Video of this is going to help. Not that I suggest running the car much until you solve the TGV problem. Did you end up getting the TGVs from Infosecdad? It's not a terrible idea to remove the butterfly plates from them in any case. They're not really doing much for you, and if the motors fail 'closed' your screwed if they are still there. You'll have a code, but with no plates in the TGVs it doesn't matter. You have all the time in the world to replace the motor/sensor. Edited May 23 by KZJonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 (edited) I drove the car down the road, saw the cruise light flash and brought it home. Less than 2 mins. I have replaced my TGVs from infosecdad. Flaps are still in there, and I can get that video soon. This code came on as soon as I took the intake manifold off and put it back on. Car wasn’t at running temp yet when I drove down the road. Anyways, what should I do? Take the flaps out and leave the code until a new motor comes? And what can I do about the boosting issue? I wouldn’t hear any spook when I normally would so I definitely can tell something was wrong. Also, the sound definitely was not normal. It was way too high pitched and sounded more like a jet engine than a turbo, if that explanation makes any sense. Again, I’ll get that video, but I know for a fact it’s coming from just left of the center of the IM, and below the IM Edited May 23 by Flxr_88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 7 minutes ago, Flxr_88 said: I drove the car down the road, saw the cruise light flash and brought it home. Less than 2 mins. Dunno man. Usually the TGV stick on startup. But I am not debating that they did something odd as your were driving down the road. Usually not a bad idea to let the car warm up a minute after a big job like IM replacement, etc... the TGVs should open when you get to warm idle. I would start by looking at the turbo for shaft play. Jet engine sounds are usually linked to things like turbines, and the closest thing under your hood to a turbine is the compressor in the turbo. Nothing else in there should be making screaming jet noises. Actually, the turbo should not be making screaming jet noises! If that checks out with no play in the turbo, I would move to a vacuum leak check. Smoke test if you can first to catch anything obvious, then move on to checking all vacuum hoses are snug and in the right places. (+wiring, especially to the TGV motor/sensor and ground connections in the bay. If any of those are off even a little, it could be causing your problems.) Very suspect that this started when you installed a new, non broken IM and TGVs that were known to be good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 (edited) Thanks. I thought it was odd that when everything is new, replaced and working things went wrong. I’ll go pull the IM again, check hoses, the turbo, and check that my connections are solid to the Perrin inlet. Also, should I take the flaps out while I’m in there? Edited May 23 by Flxr_88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I'd do a leak/vacuumm test before pulling the IM again. Also, see if the sticking TGV problem is all the time, or the wiring might not be quite right. If it is a permanent problem, and the wiring is confirmed to be good, then pulling the blades is only a patch, you'd need to know if it is the motors or the sensors that aren't working. There is also a process to calibrate the TGVs when installed, I don't know it off the top of my head, but maybe that is all that is needed? Google that up. Removing the blades is just a thing you can do to sort of future proof the TGVs, but if they are already installed, then I wouldn't bother atm. You need to grind off the back of the screws that hold them in, which you can't do with them sitting on the engine. Any little bit of metal in the intake could be a disaster. Start by eliminating the easy stuff, then work through to removing the intake again, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 Got it I’ll read up on that and leak test before pulling the IM off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 (edited) Started the smoke test and I didn’t see any smoke after waiting for 10 mins. So I went into the uninstalling process. I found a vacuum line coming from the turbo going to the cluster of sensors to be severed, which would probably explain the no boost and spooling, as well as the vacuum leak, possibly. Anyways, my front right plug for my tgv is falling apart, quite literally, although it seems to still be functional, but probably not if it’s throwing codes. And if I were to replace that would it be the entire harness? Sorry for the picture quality, I had to screenshot it because they were uploading as all black again. Edited May 23 by Flxr_88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 I also figured out why my smoke was not reaching some of the areas I purposely put a leak. It’s the large yellow, fuel filter looking valve which only lets air through over a certain psi, but my machine does not reach that high of psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 14 minutes ago, Flxr_88 said: I found a vacuum line coming from the turbo going to the cluster of sensors to be severed Yeah, that'll do it. That 'cluster of sensors' up at the front it your vacuum gauge + boost control solenoid. Pretty important stuff, hopefully no damage done if you had no boost control for a while. The end of the TGV connector can be depinned and replaced. All the harness fitting should be available on the interweb, or at iwire if you want the highest quality. Shouldn't be any need to replace the harness. Alternately, you could cut one off a parts car and splice it on. Good chance that one is part of the problem with your TGVs. I broke my coolant temp sending unit connector putting the engine back together.... old brittle plastic that has seen a million heat cycles. Just gonna happen. In my case I just left it as is, becuase if it falls off, I should just see the needle drop. No big deal, I'll get a new connector when/if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 (edited) Got it. I also found another sensor with no hose on it, and it never had one on it. And I can’t find where it might run to. Would you have any idea? I also checked my turbo for any play. None at all, so that’s ease of mind for the time being, but it is a 18 year old turbo so I’m not going to assume it will last many years. Edited May 23 by Flxr_88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Oh Geez. That is the vacuum/boost sensor. You sir, have been driving largely without boost control, and also with lines from the turbo severed? Not good dude, hopefuly no damage done. That should connect to a port on the front of the IM, kind of behind the alternator, and above (below?) where the purge solenoid connects to the IM as well. Looks like you've got quite a lot of plumbing to fix. There is a diagram of the vacuum system in colour on this site. Google that. Should help you make sure you've got all the required hoses and that they are going where they need. Ziptie that shit when you put it back on as well. You don't want the hoses blowing off the BCS under boost, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flxr_88 Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 (edited) The severed line next to the boost was severed from my install yesterday. I’ll take the blame for that, otherwise this plumbing issue is most likely from the people that replaced the head gaskets a couple years ago. They even noted that there were “a large amount of vacuum nipples that broke off in the installation process” and were simply just epoxied on. I’ll take a look at that diagram. At least I took a day off for this. Anyways, thanks for the info, probably would explain why my Cobb isn’t reading boost. And I had one question with the gauge cluster. I have three sensors here, two of them look like they are both purge control solenoids. Could this be or are they both supposed to be there? Edited May 23 by Flxr_88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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