2018 Legacy 3.6r High Mileage

[danschuk]

Wanted to share with everyone my general experience with my high mileage 2018 Legacy 3.6r. As of 6/11/22 it has 264,000 miles. I've had some issues. within the warranty period the infotainment head unit went and needed replaced. The trans pump gasket was leaking pretty bad and that needed replaced at a cost of about $3k at around 190,000 miles and they discovered the front cover was just started to leak and was done as part of that repair. One wheel bearing needed replaced about 200k. The A/C condenser needed cleaned to correct no cold air while not moving. Other than that it's been oil changes, brake flushes, trans flushes, coolant flushes, brakes, tires, and most recently struts and springs. I've found the longest lasting tires are the Continental option. They give me about 120,000 miles of wear. At 264k miles I have done 4 trans flushes and it's still kicking. The struts and springs were purchased as loaded assemblies from Rock Auto. They were the only supplier other than the dealer that had struts and springs. Overall I am pretty happy with the car. However, I probably will opt for a different option on the next one since the sealed CVT makes me nervous with the high mileage.

[Brisvegas]

I have done 4 trans flushes and it's still kicking. .

 

Wow ... 4 trans FLUSHES .... that might create some debate around here (and in my humble opinion debate is a good thing).

 

On the numerous previous posts on this forum there is divided opinion as to whether or not a simple drain and fill is needed on our "lifetime" CVT's ... and now you are advocating flushes, which I have seen a lot of negative thoughts about on "normal" transmissions, much less on a CVT :)

[ncted]

the sealed CVT makes me nervous with the high mileage.

 

As long as the miles are mostly highway, I would think the CVT concerns are probably minimal.

[silverton]

gives me hope! i want a 18/19 legacy 3.6, whichever year was the last with the denso head unit

[danschuk]

Wow ... 4 trans FLUSHES .... that might create some debate around here (and in my humble opinion debate is a good thing).

 

On the numerous previous posts on this forum there is divided opinion as to whether or not a simple drain and fill is needed on our "lifetime" CVT's ... and now you are advocating flushes, which I have seen a lot of negative thoughts about on "normal" transmissions, much less on a CVT :)

 

I could be wrong on the flush but I will have to dig up my paperwork. They were all performed at the dealer.

[danschuk]

As long as the miles are mostly highway, I would think the CVT concerns are probably minimal.

 

Yes they are 98% highway. I sure hope you're right but I guess if it goes I can just put a used trans in to minimize cost.

[danschuk]

gives me hope! i want a 18/19 legacy 3.6, whichever year was the last with the denso head unit

 

Well she's still kicking for me. Hope to get another 250k+ out of her.

[Brisvegas]

I could be wrong on the flush but I will have to dig up my paperwork. They were all performed at the dealer.

 

I would be very interested if it was a "flush" or a "drain and fill" because as I mentioned, "flushing" a transmission has it's fair share of detractors, as can be seen from the following link ...

 

http://mygarageairdrie.ca/services-pricing/maintenance-services/services-that-you-dont-need-transmission-flushes/

[donglow2]

I would be very interested if it was a "flush" or a "drain and fill" because as I mentioned, "flushing" a transmission has it's fair share of detractors, as can be seen from the following link ...

 

http://mygarageairdrie.ca/services-pricing/maintenance-services/services-that-you-dont-need-transmission-flushes/

 

In my opinion, there are several things wrong with this negative view of transmission flushes. On the article:

 

1. "it neglects the most important part of servicing the transmission: changing the filter". Many modern automatic transmissions, which this article is about, do not have changeable filters. A Subaru CVT filter can only be changed by removing the whole transmission. The filter is never changed with a fill or flush. Subaru CVT, like many modern automatics (Toyota 6, 8, or 10 speed) only has a screen that can be replaced/cleaned inside of the fluid pan, plus a magnet in the pan that metal wear particles can be cleaned off. Doing a flush doesn't keep these from being done. You only need to drop the pad and do them before the flush.

 

2. "Fact #2: Car manufacturers recommend against transmission flushes". Subaru does not say not to do flushes. A flush is better which is the reason good Subaru dealers do it. The valve body of Subaru CVT cannot handle dirty fluid, which is why he has gotten 264,000 miles without a new valve body or whole transmission.

 

3. Fact #2 & 3. Flushes do not pressurize the transmission. It is only returning transmission fluid to the pan so the pump doesn't run dry. There is absolutely no reason to pressurize the transmission, because automatics and CVT's are hydraulic pumps. They already cycle a huge amount of fluid when ever the engine is running.

 

4. A drain and fill "only removes about 70% of the fluid" is way off. It is more like 35%. If it was 70% there would not be much benefit in a flush.

 

5. "flushing chemicals are solvents or detergents". Not true. A flush is done with new transmission fluid. You do it until what is coming out turns from the nasty old fluid to the new fluid. Engine oil gets carbon and other impurities that can form slug and carbon buildup from the blowby of the combustion. There is no combustion in a transmission therefore there is not much, if ever, a reason to clean from using solvents and other chemicals. The fluid needs changing from breakdown and metal particles from wear of the parts. It does not get contaminated like engine oil.

 

This article is full of holes. It says a lot of untrue things and therefore leads the reader to a false conclusion. So what if GM says something against flushes? They are no longer a reputable company anyway. The only reason dealers and auto repaid/fluid change shops use a pump is because it is faster. To do it DIY a pump isn't worth the trouble or cost. You just fill the transmission and run the engine for 10 to 15 seconds and then do it again. Took about 12 times to totally flush my TR-580 in my 2016 Legacy. The TR-690 in a 3.6 holds a little more so probably a few times more.

 

Watch this man's videos to find out what real flushing is by someone who really knows.

Edited June 13, 2022 by donglow2

[Brisvegas]

In my opinion, there are several things wrong with this negative view of transmission flushes. On the article:

 

1. "it neglects the most important part of servicing the transmission: changing the filter".

 

2. "Fact #2: Car manufacturers recommend against transmission flushes". Subaru does not say not to do flushes.

3. Fact #2 & 3. Flushes do not pressurize the transmission. I

 

4. A drain and fill "only removes about 70% of the fluid" is way off. It is more like 35%. If it was 70% there would not be much benefit in a flush.

 

5. "flushing chemicals are solvents or detergents". Not true.o it again. Took about 12 times to totally flush my TR-580 in my 2016 Legacy. The TR-690 in a 3.6 holds a little more so probably a few times more.

 

Watch this man's videos to find out what real flushing is by someone who really knows.

 

Don't get me wrong ... if you read my initial post, I clearly stated that having a debate about flushes is good. I didn't post the article in question because I necessarily agreed with it ... but merely as an example of what I have heard quite a few people say about flushing a transmission.

I am very open to hearing what you, and any other forum members post on the subject.

 

One comment I will make on your video link, is that unless I am mistaken, the Toyota transmission discussed is not a CVT, so we are not truly comparing apples with apples

[donglow2]

Don't get me wrong ... if you read my initial post, I clearly stated that having a debate about flushes is good. I didn't post the article in question because I necessarily agreed with it ... but merely as an example of what I have heard quite a few people say about flushing a transmission.

I am very open to hearing what you, and any other forum members post on the subject.

 

One comment I will make on your video link, is that unless I am mistaken, the Toyota transmission discussed is not a CVT, so we are not truly comparing apples with apples

 

Sorry if I sounded condescending. I hate it when people slam me too. My disgust was on the anti-flush side of the debate and not you. It is nice you are open-minded and a big and knowledgible contributor to this forum.

 

The web article you posted was on automatic transmission but the youtube link I posted, also on automatics, is done by Don Smith. He does a CVT in another video too. It is exactly the same procedure whether automatic or CVT transmission. He has years of experience. Amsoil, which I don't use often because of the expense, even has some kind of warranty on the transmission if using their fluid and flushing regularly. Amsoil is one of the top oil/fluid companies in the world, partly because of the research they do.

 

Another misconception of the article is connecting into the the transmission cooler. It is the return of cooler into the transmission that is rerouted into a container to catch the oil fluid and keep new fluid going into the transmission pan. Flushes start with a drain and fill, then you flush to get the remaining approximately 65% of the old fluid out.

 

There are a lot of false misconceiving statements and opinions in auto repair. This is one of them. The person who wrote this article is feeding on people who have never done a flush and can be deceived.

Edited June 13, 2022 by donglow2

[donglow2]

The valve body of the CVT in modern Subarus is the weak expensive link that hurts their prior reputation of long-lasting low major repairs and their resale value. Subaru's with 100,000 or more mileage don't sell for nearly as much as Toyotas or Hondas, which also make CVT cars and their valve bodies don't seem to have as many problems as Subarus. Nissan Jatco CVT, most mechanics think, at least prior to 2020, are garbage and really need frequent fluid changes to last any decent length of time. Nissan claims in their last few years to have fixed the problems, but time will tell.

 

Subaru American really screwed up by saying the fluid is lifelong if not towing or hard driving. There are a few reputable dealers in the USA who want their customers to experience the long life Subaru's were known for and recommend fluid flushes to their customers even though Subaru of America does not say it is necessary. Even a fluid drain and fill is a lot better than not addressing the issue at all. The external pump machine used by dealers in fluid flush adds very little to the extra cost. The labor and the extra fluid costs the most. The procedure starts with a drain and fill to get new fluid in the pan. Taking off the return from the cooler (actually, it is more of warmer in a Subaru than a cooler) and rerouting and putting it back is difficult because the space is tight.

 

I bought my 2016 Legacy with 101,000 miles, after my 2016 Outback was totaled when it got sandwiched between a driver switching into my lane and a semi in the other lane. I was all prepared, after a lot of studying to change the valve body when it went bad, because I doubted the prior owner, who had the dealer do all the oil changes and other maintenance, ever had it done. I got such a good deal on it that it was still going to be good deal with a new $3,500 valve body or a rebuilt one for less. I found when doing the flush the hoses on the cooler were reversed. This along with a few other signs, such as the transmission being totally clean compared to the rest of the car, the scan tool saying the car only had 86,000 miles as if the wiring did not get reconnected properly, and the fluid looking like it only had about 15,000 miles on I believe their Subaru dealer put in a new transmission.

 

The valve body on my 2013 Impreza CVT, back when the power train warranty was only 60,000, went out at 68,000. The dealer made me pay the whole $3,300 cost to replace it. Then a month later I received a check from Subaru of America, without ever complaining too them, for the $3,300. Very nice of them!

 

I have a 2019 Camry in addition to two Subaru's in my immediate family, plus do work on extended family and friend's vehicles. Japanese only! After getting expert advice on seeking out a Toyota/Lexus specialty shop (because they supposedly know what they are doing and don't rob you as much as a dealer) for changing the Camry 8-speed automatic fluid, they told me you can't flush the transmission on this car unless the transmission is removed. I knew right then the desk guy did not know what he was talking about but I went ahead, after arranging time off work and a ride to take me there and back when they were done and let them do the drain and fill. Two weeks later the transmission started slipping. After a large amount of research, it seemed the most reasonable explanation for this was they did not put enough fluid in it. In fact, the transmission has to be cooled to a low range just above ambient temperature to measure it correctly and they did not have the car long enough for it too cool to this. I decided then I was doing it myself. I did the full flush and found the fluid was very dirty, even though about 35% had been changed. It completely fixed the slipping. I hope it did not do any damage that will show up later as my goal is 300,000 miles out of this vehicle. I have had some other bad experiences from both Subaru and Toyota actual dealers.

 

Before I learned about flushing I did a drain and fill on my 2013 Impreza at a 165,000 miles. I used Redline Non-Slip CVT. The transmission had been slipping but this completely fixed it. I believe Redline, since they are mostly making it for racing, has more friction additives for the belt and torque converter than standard Subaru CVT fluid, but that is just a guess because I haven't seen any data to verify it. I have read that the slippage in these transmissions that is fixable is probably the torque converter rather than the belt because once the belt starts slipping the destruction of the transmission is comes soon.

Edited June 13, 2022 by donglow2

[Brisvegas]

 

Subaru American really screwed up by saying the fluid is lifelong if not towing or hard driving. There are a few reputable dealers in the USA who want their customers to experience the long life Subaru's were known for and recommend fluid flushes to their customers even though Subaru of America does not say it is necessary. Even a fluid drain and fill is a lot better than not addressing the issue at all. The external pump machine used by dealers in fluid flush adds very little to the extra cost. The labor and the extra fluid costs the most. The procedure starts with a drain and fill to get new fluid in the pan. Taking off the return from the cooler (actually, it is more of warmer in a Subaru than a cooler) and rerouting and putting it back is difficult because the space is tight.

 

 

I have had some other bad experiences from both Subaru and Toyota actual dealers.

 

Before I learned about flushing I did a drain and fill on my 2013 Impreza at a 165,000 miles. I used Redline Non-Slip CVT. The transmission had been slipping but this completely fixed it. I believe Redline, since they are mostly making it for racing, has more friction additives for the belt and torque converter than standard Subaru CVT fluid, but that is just a guess because I haven't seen any data to verify it. .

 

Thanks for the interesting post. I agree about your thoughts on "Lifetime fluid" ... in my opinion that is just a marketing gimmick by manufacturers that is designed to give a prospective buyer the impression of lower maintenance costs.

 

I also share your wariness on some dealership's "expertise" to perform a transmission fluid change; and my plan was when I reach 100,000 kms (and most of my driving is highway) that I would do a lot of homework to see if the dealer (or independent mechanic) I choose, knows what they are doing.

 

I'm not completely sold on a "flush" but I appreciate your input.

 

The one point that I do tend to disagree with you is on not using Subaru CVT fluid. Perhaps I am being a victim of more corporate marketing, but it does make sense to me that car makers have specific requirements for their transmission fluid ... but like you, I have no proof of that assertion.

[Brisvegas]

There are a lot of false misconceiving statements and opinions in auto repair. This is one of them. The person who wrote this article is feeding on people who have never done a flush and can be deceived.

 

Damn You donglow2 ... just when I thought I had pretty much decided that flushing was a definite No No, I am now starting to delve deeper into the subject and beginning to have second thoughts :lol:

 

https://www.torquenews.com/14093/sealed-automatic-transmission-flush-deception-revealed-mechanic

 

https://advancedtransmission.com/2019/04/29/transmission-repair-do-whats-best-for-vehicle/

[donglow2]

Damn You donglow2 ... just when I thought I had pretty much decided that flushing was a definite No No, I am now starting to delve deeper into the subject and beginning to have second thoughts :lol:

 

The good news is the Suburu CVT is much easier to get the proper amount of fluid back in than the Toyota automatics most of the videos and articles refer to. That is because the Toyotas use this crazy straw level thing underneath the drain plug, whereas Subarus use a level plug on the side of the transmission.

 

Toyota also appear to be much more subjectable to near-perfect fluid amount. A 1/4 of a quart on the 8-speed can be the difference from too little or too much. Subaru's on the other hand seem fine with a 2/3 quart variance. The temperature range to get the level correct also seems to be higher and wider in Subarus. All-in-all the Subaru is just a whole lot easier to drain and fill or go to the next step and flush, for either the DIY or mechanic than Toyota and I assume most sealed automatics.

 

The only advantage the automatics have is CVT fluid really stinks and is hard to get out of your clothes, garage, shop rags, etc., where ATF smells pretty good.

Edited June 14, 2022 by donglow2

[DougKelly20]

Just scheduled mine for next week....I asked which they do and they said flush....but I'm also having a CVT cooler installed, so they are going to have to run it and fill it a few times anyway.

[danschuk]

I would be very interested if it was a "flush" or a "drain and fill" because as I mentioned, "flushing" a transmission has it's fair share of detractors, as can be seen from the following link ...

 

http://mygarageairdrie.ca/services-pricing/maintenance-services/services-that-you-dont-need-transmission-flushes/

 

When I read over my paperwork I did notice a charge for a gasket. So I called the dealer today and asked more about how they perform the CVT service. They informed me the pan is removed, then cleaned along with the screen and then a flush is performed. So it sounds to me like essentially they perform both service as one.

[Brisvegas]

When I read over my paperwork I did notice a charge for a gasket. So I called the dealer today and asked more about how they perform the CVT service. They informed me the pan is removed, then cleaned along with the screen and then a flush is performed. So it sounds to me like essentially they perform both service as one.

 

I find the fact that you and Dougkelly20, and donglow2 are all "flushers" very interesting. It makes me wonder how many other forum members have had a flush done???

 

As I have mentioned in my posts, I am not a "lifetime fluid" believer, and will certainly be having a transmission service at about the 60,000 mile mark, but up til now, I have not considered the "flush option." I'm still not fully convinced, but now I'm not 100% against it, like I was in the very recent past. I will be asking a lot of questions to some Subaru transmission experts before I commit either way.

 

One thing I would suggest to you is that you find out "exactly" what transmission service your dealer did on your vehicle. I know you said that they told you that a "flush" was performed, but from what I have read online recently, sometimes "flush" and "drain and fill" seem to be sometimes used interchangeably depending on which person at the dealership people talk to.

The basic question that I would be asking is "was a flushing machine used on my vehicle?" ... as per the following link

 

https://www.transmissionrepaircostguide.com/what-is-a-transmission-flush/