water pumps out of radiator fill hole when cranking ej253

[darthqwo]

i noticed when i crank with the radiator cap off, the water pumps out backwards from the fill hole with the force of a mini fire hydrant; the water literally jumps out and splashes against the underside of the hood, and this is definitely not normal.

 

previously, the car had sat for the entire spring and summer with oil drained without oil pan, and after i put it back together hastily for inspection, i noticed shiny metal particles in the oil when putting a flash light to it. when it overheated on a highway-speed drive, i figured that the long exposure caused corrosion to the rods, causing rod knock. at the moment it is faint taps, but it is not entirely clear if this is just early rod knock or not

 

with this diagnosis i started shopping for a new engine and looked into fb20, fb25, etc.; anyway, before that happens, i see this is an unexpected symptom, and maybe it is an additional symptom to bad rods and overheating, or maybe bad rods diagnosis is incorrect;

 

i did timing service last year, and some question the job i did, routing the timing belt the wrong way, but the water did not emerge backwards until this episode; maybe it is thermostat or something clogging the internal water pipes; anyway, appreciate your input omg thanks

Edited October 8, 2020 by darthqwo

[AVGxp]

I had a similar problem on an ej205 on a wrx and it turned out to be due to a head gasket issue.

[Max Capacity]

Sounds like your pressurizing the coolant system, not good. Most likely a HG issue.

 

You may want to link us to the thread about your timing belt issues.

 

What do you mean by routing the timing belt the wrong way ? It only goes together one way...? Or am I missing something...

[blackobxt]

If it’s doing this while cranking and it’s a headgasket, then it would be an extreme failure. Depending on how bad you overheated it, you possibly warped not just the head but also the block

[whitetiger]

Ynansb

[darthqwo]

nice guys!

 

the water emerging backwards happens when radiator is freshly filled; otherwise, it is bubbling in the overflow tank a good deal and white smoke from teh exhaust -- headgasket!

 

there are no misfires once it starts up, but it does struggle on startup since overheating on the highway; i know this should be least of my worries, but would new headgaskets fix start-up struggle?

 

 

What do you mean by routing the timing belt the wrong way ? It only goes together one way...? Or am I missing something...

 

this is just someone saying i am a stupidhead and saying water pump was spinning backwards, but it goes together one way only, as it did; also i did timing service was over a year ago, but it looks like a head gasket issue, which up until now was just a slow seep of oil from the heads, and didn't expect this due to heads

 

omg thanks

[Max Capacity]

Once the engine is out, a machine shop should measure the deck surfaces and fix them to make sure the new HG has good surfaces on the block and head to seal against.

[darthqwo]

If it’s doing this while cranking and it’s a headgasket, then it would be an extreme failure. Depending on how bad you overheated it, you possibly warped not just the head but also the block

 

given the symptoms the first thing that would warp would be the cylinders and ringlands followed by waterways, right? but instead i think it might be there is an exhaust leak into teh cooling compartment that is responsible for the pressure, and headgaskets would go first before the other things. in addition, i don't believe it is actually misfiring--although it might be--and there are no codes for misfires. to confirm it is only the exhaust i disconnected top radiator hose to find exhaust coming through, and reverely i also suspect water exits through the exhaust; and this would be where teh pressure in the cooling is coming from. in addition, the oil has not mixed with the water either, so this is a good sign that there is not severe damage

 

Once the engine is out, a machine shop should measure the deck surfaces and fix them to make sure the new HG has good surfaces on the block and head to seal against.

 

my plan is to do the head gaskets with the engine left in the engine bay and to not remove the short block, so wit this plan the short block would not be resurfaced; but how necessary generally is it to do a machine shop resurface on the surfaces? an adviser, former machinist, and master mechanic has looked at my problem here but advises that he has never done a a resurface on heads when doing gaskets...

 

omg thanks

Edited October 9, 2020 by darthqwo

[blackobxt]

It’s always a good idea to check that surfaces are flat and square, even brand new heads and short blocks. The cylinders are surrounded with coolant so when a gasket goes it will pump compression and combustion into the cooling system. The oil passages are farther away from the combustion so mixing oil into the mix is a little more rare. A head will warp before the block surfaces will in most cases. I haven’t personally seen it on ej motors but I have heard of it.

 

As far as doing the gaskets with motor in, it’s not much more work to pull it. Doing the gaskets with motor in is doable but a tight fit. You have to pull and install the heads with the bolts in the heads since there isn’t enough room for the bolts to clear. I use rubber bands to hold the bolts in the heads while I finess them in place.

[blackobxt]

hey look at that. i have a picture of the last job i did.

 

 

the missing blue is where the gaskets usually fail. You can see in the picture of the motor how the coolant passages are all thats around the cylinders and why you arent getting oil in your coolant, the hole at the top left and the two oblong holes at the bottom are oil passages.

[darthqwo]

Ynansb

 

So someone helping me--this person is the machinist in my last post and my insulter in my second post--says that there might be something else apart from head gaskets that is wrong.

 

This stems from the fact that there are no misfires and the fact that water pressure is emerging smoothly from all four cylinders instead of just one; the exhaust is emerging from the top radiator hose without misfire from all four cylinders.

 

This could point to some other damage to an area that would link exhaust and water lines--possibly damage to the short block--or to head gaskets again but head gaskets that have corroded at both cylinders on both sides at four different places simultaneously. He is an engine whisperer--a horse whisperer but with engines--and, feeling the idling engine, senses all four cylinders from the top water hose; and so, this could also be wrong.

 

 

omg thanks

[blackobxt]

Leak down test it