poconoracing Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 I used the forum tools to search and could not find this anywhere. I apologize if I missed it. Ed at XRT is on version 2 of his map. He suggested I clean the boost controller based on the logs I sent him. There is nothing in the FSM about cleaning the boost controller as a maintenance procedure. This is the factory boost hardware except for a turbosmart compact re circulation valve. Anyone have any instructions/suggestions on how to clean it? And what to use (IE MAF cleaner, brake cleaner, carb cleaner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaboo Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Sorry I have no idea, but...I think XRT can better advise what and how to clean, since they are the ones suggesting you do it. Interested to see what they want you to clean and their reasoning behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) What I got from our chat was the car is not building the boost that was he was expecting it to. He said the boost was lower than he expected based on the parameters of the tune. He suggested I clean the boost controller. Best guess is he thinks the solenoid is not bleeding as much pressure as it should based on the duty cycle he is applying to it, therefore the wastegate is opening more than it should. It would make sense if valve portion of the solenoid was dirty, it would not pass as much air and therefore not bleed off as much pressure. Cleaning it should just be a matter of pulling the lines and spraying some cleaner through it. Question is what cleaner. Depending on what the internals are (rubber, plastic etc) using the wrong cleaner could destroy it. It Seems like it would be similar to cleaning an egr valve. Before I do it I figured I’d ask the experts if they know what to use, and if there is anything else involved Edited April 19, 2020 by poconoracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaboo Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Bypass valve on our engines are well known for leaking. It could be that. Do a search on BPV, lots of reading about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Never heard of this issue before. Things that would jump out to me: is the wastegate actuator properly adjusted? Is all of the tubing in the boost control loop intact? Check for leaks/cracks. "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Boost controller and bypass valve are two different mechanisms. I would also recommend checking for loose hoses on the solenoid and cleaning it with maybe some maf spray, that is electronics and plastic safe. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Worst case I can send you mine if you want, it's just sitting in my shed. PM me if you want it. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) I appreciate the thoughts. So you guys all know - nothing changed on the car. It ran perfectly Friday - Saturday I started the e-tune process. I'm taking it from a cobb OTS stage 2 map to a protune. The tuner (XRT) on the first run came back to me with a potential issue and suggested I clean the boost controller. I asked a couple questions and here is what I got. He's seeing a restriction in the ability of the turbo to make boost above 5200 RPM. This is a base boost map. Over time the actuator can get sticky with engine vapors (oil/fuel) and cause control issues. Many times people will just call it failed and replace it. He suggested shooting some brake cleaner through it to make sure there is no gum/oil/dirt in it. It may end up being a replacement. And thanks for the offer FLlegacy - we are mid tune so it it needs one i'll probably put a 3 port in it. We'll see. I was thinking MAF cleaner too given what its made of. Ed said brake clean. Maybe Ill shoot brake clean first followed by maf to make sure there is no residue Edited April 19, 2020 by poconoracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) Both will evaporate out, but MAF sensor cleaner is intended to be gentler on plastics, assuming that's what you're concerned about. I'd lead with MAF sensor cleaner, see what (if anything) comes out, and go from there. Edit: I forget, what do you have in the way of a BPV? If you're on the stock one, those do leak at higher pressures, so that could be related to what he's seeing. That's about the top end of the stock turbo's efficiency range, so it's going to be spitting out some pretty hot air anyway, and that leak only makes the turbo work harder, not to mention recirculating that hot air. Hotter air out of the turbo will lead to lower manifold pressure, assuming manifold temperature stays the same. Definitely a bit of a reach, but replacing the factory BPV definitely helps with holding boost. Edited April 19, 2020 by cww516 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaboo Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Thanks poconoracing for letting us know. Hope the tune goes well, looking forward to seeing the gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 I would go with a 3 port as well, if you can. Personally I would just go that route regardless. But Ed may charge more for changing mid tune. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) Both will evaporate out, but MAF sensor cleaner is intended to be gentler on plastics, assuming that's what you're concerned about. I'd lead with MAF sensor cleaner, see what (if anything) comes out, and go from there. Edit: I forget, what do you have in the way of a BPV? If you're on the stock one, those do leak at higher pressures, so that could be related to what he's seeing. That's about the top end of the stock turbo's efficiency range, so it's going to be spitting out some pretty hot air anyway, and that leak only makes the turbo work harder, not to mention recirculating that hot air. Hotter air out of the turbo will lead to lower manifold pressure, assuming manifold temperature stays the same. Definitely a bit of a reach, but replacing the factory BPV definitely helps with holding boost. Thanks for responding - the BPV its a turbosmart compact installed 3000 miles ago. I'll clean the boost controller and see what happens. Edited April 19, 2020 by poconoracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Sent a couple more logs to Ed @ XRT. I freed up the boost control solenoid so it was working again, at least somewhat according to the datalogs I sent him The solenoid is a bit of a pain to remove without taking a bunch of parts off. If it was dead anyway I would just replace it once. Up here in the rust belt things tend to break, so we avoid removing 10 year old bolts if we can help it. What i did was: 1. took off the engine under cover 2. pulled the boot off the turbo inlet 3. back probed the black with white stripe - applying 12v here will cycle the solenoid 4. sprayed brake clean with the straw shoved up the port as far as it would go while cycling the solenoid repeatedly - I really doused it 5. let it dry for a few minutes and buttoned it back up. I just sent him 2 3rd gear datalogs with the stock boost tables loaded so we shall see if we have attained boost control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) And the verdict is? Not quite cleared out after one spray down. Did attain some waste gate control but it's still not working 100% Going to douse it again in the morning Anybody here in the rust belt removed the turbo inlet recently? Whats the likelihood the bolts break? I'm really hesitant to try an remove it to get to the other side of the solenoid. Seems like a bad combination - bolts through a plastic housing into an aluminum turbo. The blue wrench will be of no use at all! Edited April 20, 2020 by poconoracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco26 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 My car has been in upstate New York for 90% of its life, and mine came out fairly easily a few months ago. As long as you've had that under cover on the car, they should come out alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 My car has been in upstate New York for 90% of its life, and mine came out fairly easily a few months ago. As long as you've had that under cover on the car, they should come out alright. Thats good to hear! You know my hesitation with all the damn corrosion. When I did the timing belt I snapped one of the bolts in the turbo flange of the charge pipe. Turned what should have been a couple hour job into an all day event drilling it out, retapping it etc. The car came to me with no under cover, it was originally from MA. One of the first things I did was buy one and put it on. I have no idea how long it was off. After going back and forth with Ed at XRT we agreed it was best to replace the EBCS. Even if I got it to function, it could well gum up again. That would not end well. either low boost or it would boost off the chart. The grimm speed 3 port is on its way. I guess in a couple days I'll find out if those bolts will come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewdogg Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I removed mine last year for the build, I'm in Wi and didn't have any issues either. I have had good luck not breaking bolts on Subaru's. I have broken plenty of bolts over the years, so maybe I'm learning...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Anybody here in the rust belt removed the turbo inlet recently? Whats the likelihood the bolts break? I'm really hesitant to try an remove it to get to the other side of the solenoid. Seems like a bad combination - bolts through a plastic housing into an aluminum turbo. The blue wrench will be of no use at all! No problem at all removing the bolts to the turbo. I don't see those bolts being any issue at this time or near future (I replaced some of the bolts on my project car due to excessive corrosion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 The grimm speed three port is in! The turbo inlet bolts came out with no problem at all. What was a PITA you ask? The phillips screws that held the old solenoid on. Solid hour alternating between an impact screw driver and prying gently between the solenoid and the housing to break the rust around the screw and it finally broke free. Damn road salt. If you install this, The grimm speed adapter plate for our cars has no place to mount the actual solenoid, you'll have to find a suitable bolt nearby and cut your hose to length. You'll also need two vacuum hose adapters that they don't include. You'll have to go from 4?mm to 6?mm ID on the wastegate and the boost outlet. Sent two logs to Ed and he says we are good to continue tuning. he did mention my wastegate looks 'tight' whatever that means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaboo Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Good that was fixed with the three port! I wonder what he means by "tight"? I have a 3-port on standby too, would love to hear his take on it so we know what to watch out for with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco26 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 I would guess that he means its taking more duty cycle on the solenoid than usual to make the expected boost... the "tight" can come from the wastegate actuator linkage needing lubed, or on aftermarket wastegate actuators, where you have to apply a certain amount of tension to the linkage. When you're done we can compare duty cycles and see how much of a difference the 3 port makes. Do you know what ECU software version you're using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) Ed's answer was the wastegate physical adjustment was tight IE the actuator arm. And coco I have no idea what ECM software version I have. I've never looked for it. We cant really compare duty cycles on mine before and after because my solenoid was stuck. BY the way when I had the old solenoid removed, it was closed and I could definitely blow through the closed valve. It was not closing completely. I didn't think to put power to it to see if it opened at all. All the hammering I did to it I would think it was unstuck anyhow Edited April 26, 2020 by poconoracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaboo Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Thanks for helping the peanut gallery understand what's going on! Lets see what XRT can do now that that's out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoracing Posted April 27, 2020 Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) The GrimmSpeed 3 port solved the boost control problem. Now the virtual dyno results! First one is XRT v6 Second one is the XRT v0 overlaid with the Cobb Stage 2 93 Octane map 1200 ft above sea level. Both at approx 45 deg F air temperature Same road, same car, same 3rd gear from 1500 RPM to the rev limiter Don't get hung up on the specific numbers - Its virtual - not a real world dyno - But man look (and boy can I feel!) at the difference! I had no idea this car could be such a beast. Here I was all happy with the Cobb OTS stage 2 tune. Ed at Extreme Racing Tuning knows his stuff. Couple more tweaks and it'll be done. And Coco - No clutch slipping so far Edited April 27, 2020 by poconoracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaboo Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Peak power shifted to the left by around 500 rpm, and torque by almost 1000 rpm, with gains all across the curve, nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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