Extended Warranty - To buy or not to buy

[MichaelNewYork]

Hi everyone,

 

I am new to this forum as I am buying a pre-owned 2015 Legacy from a VW dealer. The car is in excellent condition, has never been accidented and has 54,400 miles on it.

 

They have offered me a 5 year, 60,000 mile comprehensive warranty for $2,200 plus tax and I do not know if I should buy it. It is transferrable, has a $100 deductiible ($50 if I service the car at the selling dealer) and covers most everything, aside from lights, shocks, batteries, trim, brake discs/pads, and other usable maintenance items.

 

I have heard that Subarus are very reliable but it does seem like it is not that much to spend for the peace of mind it buys for 5 years.

 

Should I but it?

 

Thank you?

[IcEWoLF]

That’s a rip off price, contact Luke and he will sell you the Subaru warranty at cost:

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5783213&postcount=2

 

Many people bought the warranty from Luke including me.

[NORULZleggy]

I would not and I do not believe in ext warranty on cars:rolleyes:. If the car is in good shape if used or buying new, then there should be no reason for one. I turned it down on my last 2 legacys and my current.

 

I say this cause if you handy you can do the work your self service wise. when I bought my 2013, I got a new free battery, then the front 02 went back. I went to Rockauto bought OEM replacement and my car is solid. I even drained their junk oil they put in the car the day I bought it. Amsoil filter and SS oil. Just my 2 cents.

[ammcinnis]

... contact Luke ...

Luke is no longer selling Subaru SAS plans.

 

... he will sell you the Subaru warranty at cost ...

The OP's Legacy is out of warranty, and thus no longer eligible for an SAS plan.

[ammcinnis]

... I am buying a pre-owned 2015 Legacy from a VW dealer ... They have offered me a 5 year, 60,000 mile comprehensive warranty for $2,200 plus tax ... Should I but it?

No, IMO. The price you were quoted is really high, and third-party "extended warranties" are notorious for coverage exclusions, denials, and poor customer service.

[wi_legacy2016]

Your CVT should be covered up to 100k miles which is most of this extended warranty. I'd say it's not worth it. They sell these warranties to make more money, not to be nice. Edited July 29, 2019 by wi_legacy2016
Correction

[ammcinnis]

Your powertrain should be covered up to 100k miles ...

How did you come up with that? The CVT is covered by a 100,000 mile warranty extension from Subaru, but the rest of the powertrain is only warranted to 5 years/60,000 miles.

[wi_legacy2016]

How did you come up with that? The CVT is covered by a 100,000 mile warranty extension from Subaru, but the rest of the powertrain is only warranted to 5 years/60,000 miles.

 

You're right, I was in a rush. Edited my post. That said, the CVT is the biggest reliability concern for me.

[SubieN8]

You're right, I was in a rush. Edited my post. That said, the CVT is the biggest reliability concern for me.

 

And it very well should be.

[IcEWoLF]

People been saying cvt concerns but let’s face it it’s been rock solid:

It’s not like you are driving a 300hp car...

Unless you are a modder or drive your car like you stole it you should be fine.

 

People show their concern on turbo, DI...and etc etc...

[Brisvegas]

It’s not like you are driving a 300hp car...

Unless you are a modder or drive your car like you stole it you should be fine.

People show their concern on turbo, DI...and etc etc...

 

I tend to follow your train of thought. I drive very conservatively (and with a lot of highway miles) and fully expect to join the 300,000 mile club one day

 

DI and to a lesser extent Turbos, in my mind can possibly pose more of a longevity threat than a CVT that's in the hands of a sensible driver. I include DI because of the obvious effects of carbon build up, and Turbos can change some people (not all) from normal drivers into lunatics. I always find it amusing when manufacturers produce a vehicle with a smaller motor which incorporates a turbo, with the intention being to have a fuel saving engine, and then the purchaser knowing that he now has a turbo, starts driving like a maniac and therefore negates any fuel saving benefits.

[Norskie]

DI isn't an issue. It's a maintenance item that costs a couple hundred bucks a couple times in the life of a Subaru (vs. every 2-3 oil changes on high end Audi's, for example). You'll get 50k miles of warning before lack of carbon cleaning makes a DI car unreliable.

 

Turbo's are generally not that big of a deal to replace either - they also cost a couple hundred bucks and is easy to access on the EJ and FA's .. arguably it would take less time to swap the turbo than to change plugs on our boxers. Compare that with pulling axles etc. like on the BMW N55's (or two turbos on their N54 or V8's). The problem with Subaru turbo's is that when they go, they also tend to introduce bearing material into the rest of the rest of engine, so that a replaced turbo is often followed up with a new engine shortly after.

 

But the problem with the CVT failures (regardless of frequency of failure) is that they generally require a new CVT for $6k+ (or a used one for $3k+) and the cost of professional labor, or at least access to a lift. There aren't repair / rebuild procedures available to us ... heck Subaru can't even tell us how and when to change the fluid.

 

On a car with 150k or more, needing a new transmission is going to be the death-knell, assuming the car also needs all the other things a high-mileage Subaru needs ... struts, bearings, an axle or two, etc. That's why the CVT issues have gotten so much attention and given Subaru a black eye ... especially when they have a long tradition of very reliable manual transmissions and reasonably reliable automatics.

 

We've owned high-mileage cars in the past, one of which was a Subaru Outback XT. But at 175k it was becoming unreliable ... not the motor or turbo, but all the other crap ... parking brakes cables, rear diff whine, constantly dealing the brakes, a sensor here, a window-switch or wiring harness there, the annual wheel bearing replacement, etc. It was easy and inexpensive to repair when something wore out, but it was constant, and what we needed more than a cheap fun and capable car was a reliable one, that I could trust to ferry my wife (and sometimes child) safely 100 miles a day across wintery Minnesota farm roads. Sure, I could get the Outback to 300k miles economically, but not reliably. That's why we now have a low-mileage 2017 Legacy, and when the CVT warranty runs out in a couple years, if these have been failing as frequently as the 205-2016 units, we'll be shopping for another car.

[wi_legacy2016]

But the problem with the CVT failures (regardless of frequency of failure) is that they generally require a new CVT for $6k+

 

Yep, this is why it's most concerning. Not because it's the most likely thing to go, but because if it does go, it'll cost so much to replace. My spirited driving habits also probably won't help its lifespan.

[tumbleweed 49]

I have saved enough money not buying extended warranties that I can afford to fix anything that breaks. They're only a good deal for the guys that sell them.

[MichaelNewYork]

Thanks so much for all of your advice.

 

Well, now that I know the CVT is covered for about another 5 years and 45K miles, I will pass on the extended warranty. When I look at the fine print, many items are not covered:

 

'check strap, batteries, battery cables, shock absorbers, MacPherson strut assemblies (including upper mount bearings), standard transmission clutch assembly, friction clutch disc and pressure plate, clutch release bearing, manual and hydraulic linkage (including slave cylinder), distributor cap and rotor, safety restraint systems (including air bags systems), glass, lenses, sealed beams, light bulbs (including but not limited to LED lamps), fuses, circuit breakers, throttle body assembly, headlamp and projection lamp assembly, seat frames, frame and structural body parts, cellular phones, television/vcr, electronic transmitting systems, night vision systems, on star systems, brake rotors and drums, exhaust and emission control systems, (unless component is specifically stated under the chosen services), catalytic converter, weather strips, trim, moldings, bright metal, chrome, upholstery, carpet, paint, outside ornamentation, bumpers, body sheet metal and panels,door stoppers, hinges and bushings (including pins), speakers and non factory installed accessories, replacement parts that do not match factory specifications, all vinyl and convertible tops, wheels/rims and covers, tires, tire pressure monitoring system (including tire valves), and for repairs done without receiving prior approval from the claims administrator, alignments, adjustments, reprogramming, wheel balancing, tune-ups, spark plugs, spark plug wires, glow plugs, hoses (except steering and air conditioning hoses), belts (except timing belt), wiper blades, shop supplies and cleaning products, environmental fees, fuel cost and propane cost. The following parts unless replacement is required in connection with a mechanical breakdown: brake pads, brake linings/shoes (with 50% or more remaining), filters, lubricants, coolants, fluids, refrigerants, bolts, nuts and fasteners'

 

Does not seem to comprehensive to me.

[awfulwaffle]

Seems pretty standard to me, they're just covering core drivetrain/powertrain components and excluding cosmetic, chassis electrical and wear/tear items. The line for repairs done without receiving prior approval from the claims administrator jumps out to me as a little iffy.

 

I will add this, for whatever it's worth - when I bought my 08 2.5i Impreza in college, I had the opportunity to get a 3 year aftermarket plan through my credit union, so I gave it a shot for major repairs since I was in an apartment and also working full time. I had read the same stories alluded to here with regards to getting jerked around, but I trusted my CU and the cost was low enough for me to take a risk. That warranty covered a headgasket replacement on the car a couple of years later, but they only paid for the one that was leaking instead of doing both at the same time. However, it still paid to have the warranty in that case. I'll also add that there was a clause in my agreement that all maintenance had to be documented and done by an ASE certified shop, but I wasn't asked to provide any such documentation with my claim. Of course, your mileage may vary.

 

The price of what you're being offered is way high, but when it comes to any aftermarket plan it may be worth digging a little to see other folks' experiences, and maybe put some weight to policies offered through a bank you trust etc.

Edited July 30, 2019 by awfulwaffle

[Brisvegas]

DI isn't an issue. It's a maintenance item that costs a couple hundred bucks a couple times in the life of a Subaru

 

The problem with Subaru turbo's is that when they go, they also tend to introduce bearing material into the rest of the rest of engine, so that a replaced turbo is often followed up with a new engine shortly after.

 

But the problem with the CVT failures (regardless of frequency of failure) is that they generally require a new CVT for $6k+ (or a used one for $3k+) and the cost of professional labor,

 

when the CVT warranty runs out in a couple years, if these have been failing as frequently as the 205-2016 units, we'll be shopping for another car.

 

Thanks for your detailed reply. I take note of your past ownership of mutiple Subaru models so that obviously gives you the necessary "Subaru experience." I can't match that experience but can I ask a few questions in relation to your comments above.

 

I will start at the last one first, when you say in regards to the CVT's "if these have been failing as frequently as the 205-2016 units" ..... have they been failing frequently? I haven't heard that, certainly not here in Australia at least ... and I might be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any posts on this forum regarding late model CVT failures. I have seen many posts where owners have expressed worries about the longevity of CVT's and obviously about (as you point out) the servicing of them ... but as far as I am aware there has been no mass replacement of CVT's on newer models.

 

In regards to Direct Injection I guess I have to take on board that it is probably as you say "a maintenance item" ... I just figure that any time you take a car to the dealership (or elsewhere) and ask them to open the engine to decarbonize it, then that is one more opportunity for something to go wrong.

 

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/n4m5rxo/

 

And finally on Turbos. I think it's more than you are suggesting in regards to simply replacing a faulty turbo ... it's the stress that a turbo can put on an engine .... " adding a turbocharger to a smaller engine makes it work harder. A turbocharger increases combustion chamber pressure and temperature, which adds more strain on all internal components including pistons, valves, and the head gasket. The harder the engine works, the faster it wears out." ....and also as you state in your reply ... the possibility of damaged turbo parts being introduced into the engine.

 

https://www.samarins.com/check/turbo-car.html

 

 

Thanks again for your initial reply, I appreciate your interesting comments

[Norskie]

I have saved enough money not buying extended warranties that I can afford to fix anything that breaks. They're only a good deal for the guys that sell them.

 

Yeah, they don't sell them if they don't make money, and like most things at a dealership they have lots of negotiating room.

 

We've had a couple cars with extended warranties; we definitely benefited from that on our Audi's. We skipped the extended warranty on our Outback and that was a good call, because the things that did fail after the powertrain warranty that would have been covered (wheel bearings) Subaru paid for anyway. On our BMW we didn't get an extended warranty and barely broke even paying for repairs ourself. Why a car with low miles (64k) required that many repairs is beyond me ...

 

Thanks so much for all of your advice.

 

Well, now that I know the CVT is covered for about another 5 years and 45K miles, I will pass on the extended warranty. When I look at the fine print, many items are not covered:

 

Good call. Maintenance items like that list are rarely covered. Also, Subaru's are easy to work on, there may be a number of independent shops that can do the work for a lot less than the dealership.

 

Thanks for your detailed reply. I take note of your past ownership of mutiple Subaru models so that obviously gives you the necessary "Subaru experience." I can't match that experience but can I ask a few questions in relation to your comments above.

 

I will start at the last one first, when you say in regards to the CVT's "if these have been failing as frequently as the 205-2016 units" ..... have they been failing frequently? I haven't heard that, certainly not here in Australia at least ... and I might be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any posts on this forum regarding late model CVT failures. I have seen many posts where owners have expressed worries about the longevity of CVT's and obviously about (as you point out) the servicing of them ... but as far as I am aware there has been no mass replacement of CVT's on newer models.

 

Head over the Outback forums. There is a lot more traffic there, as more Outbacks than Legacies are sold.

 

It has been enough of an issue to give Subaru a black eye and for them respond with warranty extensions. Other manufacturers have also been having CVT issues, some with much greater frequency than Subaru (i.e. Nissan).

 

In regards to Direct Injection I guess I have to take on board that it is probably as you say "a maintenance item" ... I just figure that any time you take a car to the dealership (or elsewhere) and ask them to open the engine to decarbonize it, then that is one more opportunity for something to go wrong.

 

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/n4m5rxo/

 

 

I wouldn't put much trust in that post. Chemical cleaning can help if performed regularly but in the BMW and Subaru communities we haven't really seen anything that does better than a good walnut blast.

 

Of course something that always go wrong but they're not really "opening" the engine. They're removing the intake manifold. On my BMW it took me about a day to do the job (carbon cleaning) and on my WRX it's even simpler, the intake manifold doesn't even need to be disconnected (it can be tipped to the side). We're not cracking the crankcase or even removing the valve covers.

 

And finally on Turbos. I think it's more than you are suggesting in regards to simply replacing a faulty turbo ... it's the stress that a turbo can put on an engine .... " adding a turbocharger to a smaller engine makes it work harder. A turbocharger increases combustion chamber pressure and temperature, which adds more strain on all internal components including pistons, valves, and the head gasket. The harder the engine works, the faster it wears out." ....and also as you state in your reply ... the possibility of damaged turbo parts being introduced into the engine.

 

https://www.samarins.com/check/turbo-car.html

 

 

Thanks again for your initial reply, I appreciate your interesting comments

 

 

Engines with turbos are built stronger to take the stresses. Lower compression ratios, multilayer head gaskets, stronger head studs, stronger connecting rods, oil passages etc. For example, the FA20DIT used in the WRX comes stock with about 250 ft/lbs torque but can handle up to 340 ft/lbs reliably. The BMW N55 has 300 ft/lbs stock, but can handle twice that. They have bigger cooling systems and often stronger transmissions and drivelines than their non-turbo counterparts.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I got the warranty when I bought my car. Paid for it's self and then some...

[toy4rick]

I bought the extended warranty with my 2017 Legacy, time will tell.

 

I had an extended warranty on a Toyota, it got me a new transmission for $50, YMMV, every other car I have owned I never needed it, except for a teflon paint warranty on an Olds once...

 

Extended warranties are like any other insurance, you can go broke buying them

 

Good luck

Rick