BoozeRS05 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 There’s no way to make a visual determination of the oil’s lifespan as far as I know. “Looks dark” means very little in my opinion. I absolutely agree 7500 miles is too long unless you have a UOA saying otherwise. 3 EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 7 hours ago, silverton said: 7500 miles is too long of an OCI buddy, switch that up to 3000-4000! hopefully the pcv valve takes care of your oil consumption, from what you have mentioned about it, it does sound failed. Here's what our shops synthetic 5w30 looks like after 1000 miles. AFAIK black oil is holding contaminants or has been heat cycled excessively. Have you sent a used oil sample to blackstone for an analysis? I'd like to see what they've said about it! Here is what my thid gens oil looks like after 1,000 miles on whatever is delivered to our shop, it's either a semi or full synthetic 5w30. Here's my 3.6R, on ~11 degree incline... bone DRY buddy...truly showing the importance you need to be on a flat surface, i like gas stations if you don't have access to a shop. I was a little bored before needing to leave for work and needed to check my third gens oil anyway... the girlfriend drives it and she's known to drive things straight in to the ground. 6 hours ago, BoozeRS05 said: There’s no way to make a visual determination of the oil’s lifespan as far as I know. “Looks dark” means very little in my opinion. I absolutely agree 7500 miles is too long unless you have a UOA saying otherwise. thanks fellas...with the rate it's consuming, i'm adding oil quite frequently so i'm not too worried about the interval...i think the manual says 7500 miles as well which is what i've been doing since i got it...i have a garage with a flat floor where i typically check the oil...with 216k on it i'm not going to sink any more money into it if i don't have to as i have spent quite a bit this year with the catalytic converter replacement, struts/springs, 2 new tires, alignment, whitelines, PCV valve...so i'll pass on an oil analysis...probably going to just adjust oil weight, install whitelines and realign and run it till it dies or i have to fix something big where it's not worth it...the oil consumption, bluetooth skipping, having to choose the bluetooth source each time i get in the car, camber/tire wear issues, etc. are getting pretty annoying at this point but i'll deal with them for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, BoozeRS05 said: My interpretation of the oil light coming up on the dash is - Too late! Not true. I drove my 2003 Forester XS for a good 30k miles with zero oil changes. It ate so much it was not worth changing. I was determined to let her ride until the very end before rebuilding. So, no filters and no oil changes. I carried 5qts of the CHEAPEST oil I could buy at all times. When the oil light would come on, I would pull over and add 4 qts. Engine never died. She beat me and I just ended up pulling a running engine and rebuilt it at 10.5:1 compression. Had the oil light come on with the built engine once. Same deal. Drove to the nearest auto parts store (about 1 mile) with the light on. Bought 5qts of crap from Kragen and off I went. Built engine never died. Had a Nissan truck, pre hard body. Bought new. Drove 150k miles with ZERO oil changes. Engine finally seized and I bought another. Had a beater Sentra after high school. Dropped all the oil. Drove it for over 1k miles and it was still going. Got pissed. Put a few handfuls of sand in the oil filler neck. Another 1k miles before she died. 2k miles running dry with dirt. LOL. Only one way to learn. Fire in the hole. Sometimes it is expensive. Sometimes you are surprised as conventional wisdom gets trashed. Edited March 24, 2023 by m sprank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 I just don’t feel like the things you’re describing are normal. The average consumer doesn’t add a drop of oil between changes, I’d guess 90% of US drivers. If 90% of US drivers see an oil light, I’d assume they assume - oh yeah, maybe I should get an oil change.. Meanwhile they’re 1.5 quarts low and a week out from an appt. 1 EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Are they "normal" conditions, no. But do they dis-prove that just because the engine oil light came on the engine is trashed, yes. If you read the manuals you are told to periodically check your oil level. Subaru and even Honda/Acura both are adamant about owners checking for oil consumption on turbo vehicles. Last time in the Acura dealership the service dept was writing up another failed RDX engine due to oil consumption. So, if you dont check your oil and run with none chances are your warranty is void and at best the manufacturer will offer you a engine replacement at a discount. Subaru does the same. Dont know how anyone can drive a Subaru and not check oil level. Class action lawsuits, recalls, 20+ years of burning oil issues. There is a long documented history. But if the oil light comes on, it is not always a death sentence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) that's exactly what i do...every other car i've owned i've never had oil consumption issues or had to even check the oil between changes...this issue will factor heavily into my choice for my next car...i want an outback (i really want a hybrid outback) but this issue has me leaning away from subaru towards toyota, honda or mazda since i've had good luck with these brands into high mileage...at the momeny i'm just trying to get by...not trying to sink too much time and money into it...i drive 86 miles a day...it's downing ~1 quart every 250 miles (hopefully a little less now that the PCV valve is changed)...there's still ~4 quarts in there...i don't feel like checking my oil every couple days to top it off...i'll just add it when the light comes on and if it dies, it dies...cause everything about this car is getting to the point where it's annoying me the new development this monday morning is that it wouldn't start...last time i drove it was saturday morning...my wife had already left this morning so i tried to use my jumper box...not enough juice left in the car battery to jump it...had my bro in law come by with his car to jump it and it was not easy to jump so i'm thinking the battery was very drained...the last time i replaced the battery was 3/3/18 at ~121k miles so it's probably due...last time i tested it, it tested ok...maybe i have a parasitic draw or maybe the battery is toast...hopefully it's the battery my jumper box... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015TKUPIC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 my battery tester... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 12/6/22 battery test Edited March 27, 2023 by Point37 Add photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/23/2023 at 6:37 PM, BoozeRS05 said: My interpretation of the oil light coming up on the dash is - Too late! On 3/25/2023 at 5:14 PM, m sprank said: ... if the oil light comes on, it is not always a death sentence. There is an important distinction that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread: Gen 6 Legacys (and Gen 5 Outbacks) have two "oil lights" ... a "low oil level" light and a "low oil pressure" light. The "oil level" light is advisory in nature, and it's generally safe to drive a short distance until you can add oil to the engine. The "oil pressure" light is a dire warning ... permanent engine damage is likely imminent if you don't stop and address the issue NOW! 1 "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) oil pressure light is red...low oil light is orange/yellow and has the waves under the oil can in the symbol...mine is the low oil light Edited March 27, 2023 by Point37 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 My 03 Forester and 4th gen LGTs have only 1 light. Low oil pressure. Sounds like your battery. Winter killed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Point37 said: ...mine is the low oil light (Hits head.) "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, ammcinnis said: (Hits head.) Not sure what’s wrong with that…only the yellow light is turning on…not the red…I know there are 2 oil lights…they all light up every time I start the car so I don’t know how you can’t know that there aren’t 2 of them 5 hours ago, m sprank said: My 03 Forester and 4th gen LGTs have only 1 light. Low oil pressure. Sounds like your battery. Winter killed it. That’s what I’m guessing but the battery good in December…I will recheck it tonight with my tester…if it still tests good…I’m going to mess around on YouTube and see if I can figure out if there is a parasitic draw with my multimeter Edited March 27, 2023 by Point37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 7 hours ago, Point37 said: mine is the low oil light 5 hours ago, ammcinnis said: (Hits head.) 35 minutes ago, Point37 said: Not sure what’s wrong with that I think maybe because they're both low oil lights, one is for level, the other for pressure. I know you said the battery is dead but, curious for an update on consumption after pcv valve replacement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, silverton said: I think maybe because they're both low oil lights, one is for level, the other for pressure. I know you said the battery is dead but, curious for an update on consumption after pcv valve replacement. Gotcha low oil light popped on again today…~250 miles…so pcv was no help…I used another quart of 0w-20 today so I have 3 quarts left…probably just going to pass my oil change interval by a ~800 miles to use all the 0w-20 up and then the next oil change will be all 10w-40 tested battery and checked for parasitic draw…stopping here for the night…got a 50mA parasitic draw on the battery which I think is normal from everything I’ve read…put it on a trickle charger overnight just in case…may start pulling fuses and testing on the weekend or when I have more time or may just replace the battery Edited March 28, 2023 by Point37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 battery failed today...planning to get a new one today or tomorrow...currently have a Duralast Gold 25-DLG with 800 CA and 640 CCA...a new 25-DLG at autozone has 685 CA and 550 CCA...what's going on with the same model battery having weaker specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Point37 said: ...what's going on with the same model battery having weaker specs? A battery's BCI Group number specifies its external physical dimensions and terminal configuration ... nothing more. The battery manufacturer is free to select the battery's internals as they choose, perhaps to optimize for one parameter over others. There's a reason that there is such a range of prices from one battery to another, even within the same Group number. This isn't anything new; it's always been this way. One manufacturer may choose to optimize for high CA/CCA, another for RC/VA capacity, another for reliability and longevity, another for shock/vibration tolerance, another for low manufacturing cost, etc. 1 "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 10 hours ago, Point37 said: battery failed today...planning to get a new one today or tomorrow...currently have a Duralast Gold 25-DLG with 800 CA and 640 CCA...a new 25-DLG at autozone has 685 CA and 550 CCA...what's going on with the same model battery having weaker specs? I had meant to say that your battery tester is highly optimistic. That was not a good battery in my eyes. while the voltage was okay, the CCA was too low. As it was already said, the battery group is exterior size and post configuration. As long as you get one with a minimum of 550cca, you should be okay. stay away from super starts; they super suck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 (edited) On 3/31/2023 at 5:18 PM, ammcinnis said: A battery's BCI Group number specifies its external physical dimensions and terminal configuration ... nothing more. The battery manufacturer is free to select the battery's internals as they choose, perhaps to optimize for one parameter over others. There's a reason that there is such a range of prices from one battery to another, even within the same Group number. This isn't anything new; it's always been this way. One manufacturer may choose to optimize for high CA/CCA, another for RC/VA capacity, another for reliability and longevity, another for shock/vibration tolerance, another for low manufacturing cost, etc. On 3/31/2023 at 6:45 PM, silverton said: I had meant to say that your battery tester is highly optimistic. That was not a good battery in my eyes. while the voltage was okay, the CCA was too low. As it was already said, the battery group is exterior size and post configuration. As long as you get one with a minimum of 550cca, you should be okay. stay away from super starts; they super suck. thanks fellas...anyone know the OEM battery specs? Edited April 3, 2023 by Point37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 According to the manual the battery spec is 356CCA 48AH. 48AH works out to about 115 reserve capacity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 5 hours ago, silverton said: According to the manual ... Who woulda' thought? "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 I meant the service manual, but that spec may be in the owners manual as well. Yesterday a customer called asking what the little car going uphill meant..... that's a RTFM moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 13 hours ago, silverton said: According to the manual the battery spec is 356CCA 48AH. 48AH works out to about 115 reserve capacity. thanks! 7 hours ago, ammcinnis said: Who woulda' thought? the only thing the owners manual says on page 12-9 in the electrical specs is "battery type and capacity (5HR) 75D23R (12V-52AH)"...nothing else...haven't had time to download the service manual which is why i asked the question https://cdn.subarunet.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/MSA5M1304BSTIS.pdf 1 hour ago, silverton said: I meant the service manual, but that spec may be in the owners manual as well. Yesterday a customer called asking what the little car going uphill meant..... that's a RTFM moment. it's not...i searched the whole owners manual pdf while at work...no access to download the service manual at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 8 hours ago, Point37 said: 75D23R (12V-52AH) According to the service manual, that is the battery for the 3.6L model, interesting! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 3 hours ago, silverton said: According to the service manual, that is the battery for the 3.6L model ... If I remember correctly, by MY 2017 the higher-capacity battery was being installed at the factory in both 3.6 and 2.5 models of Legacy and Outback. 1 "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point37 Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, silverton said: According to the service manual, that is the battery for the 3.6L model, interesting! 11 hours ago, ammcinnis said: If I remember correctly, by MY 2017 the higher-capacity battery was being installed at the factory in both 3.6 and 2.5 models of Legacy and Outback. that's strange...i wonder why there is a discrepancy between the owners manual and the service manual...maybe it has something to do with where the cars were going?...cold climate dealers got the big batteries? Edited April 5, 2023 by Point37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronemus Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 17 hours ago, Point37 said: that's strange...i wonder why there is a discrepancy between the owners manual and the service manual...maybe it has something to do with where the cars were going?...cold climate dealers got the big batteries? Production usually precedes manual revisions -- they don't generally factor into purchasing decisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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