Legacy values have collapsed

[vtdog]

I have a '16 Limited with about 26k miles. Guaranteed trade check shows around 18,000. Checking Craig's list shows similar for 22 +/-. Dealer retail check shows about 24-26.

I don't think it is directly because it is a Legacy, but due to the fact that no one wants a sedan anymore.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

you are talking about a 2-3 year old car that is either out of or coming out of factory warranty.. this is when cars really start to slide down the depreciation scale

 

for comparison, look at the values of other similar sedans and you will see the same or worse overall

[ncted]

Sedans are not popular right now. That worked in my favor when I bought my '18 Limited. Great price and great financing deal.

[ammcinnis]

It doesn't help that new Legacy sales for the current calendar year to date (January through August 2018) are down 18% from 2017 ... and calendar year 2017 Legacy sales were substantially lower than 2016. Some of the decline, no doubt, is due to mid-generation aging ... remember, sales volume of the new Gen 6 Legacy in 2015 was nearly doubled vs. MY 2014.

 

That said, Legacy sales are still holding up better these days than many competing mid-sized sedans. With low gas prices, pickup trucks, SUVs (real or imagined), and luxury sedans are "in," and small to mid-sized sedans are "out."

[wi_legacy2016]

That doesn't sound good, but maybe they'll see increased sales coming with the other non-luxury mid-size sedans with at least an AWD option on their way out. Chrysler 200 is gone and Ford Fusion is on it's way out in the US. That doesn't leave many options for non-luxury AWD sedans.

[TwoTone]

I love watching this happen. It's happened before. When fuel prices spike again all those morons will be trying to sell their SUVs and Pick Ups and trying to buy small.

 

Outside of a tall object, the Legacy has more trunk space than the CrossTrek or Forester.

 

FORD will get screwed with it's all SUV policy.

[chowser51]

I just got offered $15k ish for trading in my ‘15 3.6R with 73k miles. I’m probably going to take it.

 

I started to leave. Now they are offering me a little more.

[ncted]

I just got offered $15k ish for trading in my ‘15 3.6R with 73k miles. I’m probably going to take it.

 

I started to leave. Now they are offering me a little more.

 

What are you buying?

[ncted]

If you compare the depreciation of the Legacy to "luxury" sedans, the Legacy doesn't look so bad. On top of that, the Legacy is likely to be much more reliable over the long term. Honestly, there isn't much an Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Infinity has to offer in "luxury" of any consequence over the Legacy other than the nameplate these days. The biggest feature I would've liked to have in the Legacy that wasn't available was cooled seats. Well, that and the LED headlights I had in the BRZ. The headlights are pretty easily fixed, but not so much the seats.

[BobbyR]

Hmmm. The Legacy is a great car and offers great value, especially at the higher trim levels, but there is still a big difference between it and the luxury brands which cost considerably more. Superior fit and finish, refinement, power and handling along with many features which are unavailable on the Legacy all make a significant difference. As for resale the Subaru probably has a bit of an edge but the BMW wins by a country mile for reliability from my experience. Our 2005 Outback 2.5XT was a maintenance nightmare starting with a blown turbo that required an engine replacement and was generally an expensive car to maintain and repair. My BMWs have never required anything but scheduled maintenance and tires. We will not keep the new Legacy beyond the warranty period so I'm not expecting any problems with it. So far so good.

[ncted]

Odd. I've never had a day's problem with any of the six Subarus we've owned over the years. All recent BMWs on the other hand are going to need significant, expensive maintenance, including walnut blasting the intake at regular intervals -- at least once you get past the included maintenance period.

 

As for fit and finish, I don't see any real difference anymore between Japanese and European cars, and, if anything, Japanese cars win out. Performance and gadgets (most of which I don't care about) are really the only remaining advantages of luxury cars IMHO. Style may be another area where luxury cars have an advantage, but that is down to a matter of taste, and I don't typically like the looks of luxury cars over mainstream cars.

 

Either way, I can in no way justify the up-front expense and precipitous depreciation of luxury cars when today's Legacy (or Accord, etc.) are just as nice as luxury cars from a few years ago.

[chowser51]

goodbye ‘15 Legacy 3.6R. In the end, they gave me $15500 for it and I owed way less so it was worth it. They offered to match the 0% rate I would’ve gotten on an ‘18 Outback.

 

Washed it and emptied it out. I will get a BRZ eventually as a summer only fun car.

 

 

 

Hello 2018 BMW 430i xDrive.

 

 

 

I’m shocked that in ecomode it said I was getting 40+ mpg. Pretty sure it’s probably 25-30. I will know once I fuel up.

[BobbyR]

Well Ncted, I'm hoping our new Subaru will be more like yours. The older one just had one thing after another. Turbo failure (requiring engine replacement), radiator replacement, assorted suspension components, drive shaft, power steering pump. Poor gas mileage on premium fuel. The body was solid though and the transmission never had a problem. The car was fun to drive when it was working properly and the check engine light was off and the cruise control light wasn't blinking...

 

Yes, BMWs are expensive to repair but are generally very reliable over the four year warranty period. I wouldn't own one out of warranty but it's not as though they immediately fall apart as soon as the warranty expires, far from it actually. Never had any need to walnut blast my intakes. For me, the biggest difference is in the performance which is a real step up in the Bimmer although I have no complaints with the Subaru in that regard as it really is very good. Styling is subjective. Fit, finish and materials are clearly superior in the higher end BMWs. I disagree with you on that point. As for the gadgets, I can understand not caring about them but I do like them. There are many little things that, taken together, improve the overall experience significantly (heads up display, four door keyless entry, remote opening of windows and sun roof, automatic trunk open and close with kick to open/close, soft close doors, multiple camera views including overhead view, self parking etc.). The EyeSight system is excellent so why did they leave out the proximity sensors on the front where you really need them? That one really bugs me.

 

Anyway, I really like both cars but I also think you get what you pay for.

[STurn]

My BMWs have never required anything but scheduled maintenance and tires. We will not keep the new Legacy beyond the warranty period so I'm not expecting any problems with it. So far so good.

 

 

I wish I had your luck. Completely opposite of my experience with a e92 328 and a e53 X5. Both of those cars required thousands of dollars of maintenance items just outside of their warranty periods, water pumps (min $1,500, my eyes glazed over just watching a youtube video of this fix, it had to have taken half a day for the mechanic) starter ($1,200, why does it have to be under the intake manifold next to the firewall?), valve cover gasket ($1800, can you say VANOS) all under 100K miles. And God help you if your battery goes flat, you're just stranded. And you have to program the car to accept a new one. Don't get me started on the price differences in regular maintenance items like brakes, tires, and fluid services. Fortunately the BMWs have a lifetime transmission fill (really <200K miles but that's practically lifetime for these cars). I'd hate to see what that bill would look like.

 

 

 

I loved those BMWs too, but they sucked in bad weather and the "luxury tax" never ended. Plus, I bought my 2017 Legacy just when the 19s came out so I got a GREAT deal. I love it. Much more comfortable than my Beemers and cheaper to own. Insurance alone saves me hundreds annually.

 

 

Moral of the story is don't buy cars new, and know what you are getting into. I don't regret my Audis or BMWs from the past, but I appreciate my Legacy too.

[ncted]

In checking the latest Consumer Reports Brand Reliability Ratings, BMW does come in just ahead of Subaru, but somehow Audi beats them both, which really has me wondering how much CR's survey-based data collection can be colored by owners wanting to feel good about their purchase. Audis have an even worse reputation when it comes to GDI-induced intake issues than most companies. Anyway, if you stay within the, albeit, excellent warranty period with BMWs, I am sure they are perfectly reliable vehicles.

 

We tend to try to keep our cars much longer than that though, and that is where, at least for us, Subaru has really shined. My wife's 2011 Forester XT Touring has the same EJ25 engine as in BobbyR's Outback, although with a slightly less aggressive tune (224HP vs. 250HP). So far, the biggest problems we've had were all caused by a crappy service department at Southern States Subaru in Raleigh, NC. They put the wrong fluid in the front axle at 30k which caused a burning smell, and managed to strip the oil drain plug with an impact wrench. Luckily neither goof caused any permanent damage. Needless to say, we don't go there for service anymore.

 

I've never owned a BMW, but I have plenty of friends who do or have. The joke around here is "add a zero to whatever you think it should cost to fix the BMW, and that is the real-world price." I actually have a friend who bought his own walnut blasting setup, so he didn't have to pay to have it done, and he performs the service for others at a reduced rate compared to professional shops to cover the cost of the equipment. BMWs sure do drive nice though. I seriously considered a Z4 M Coupe when I got my BRZ, but I just couldn't find a good one.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

IF you want to know a car's long term reliability here are a few things that will help

 

1. look at average ownership time of said cars, that tells you a lot right there

2. look at resale value after the factory warranty is up.. and only compare cars with the expected mileage on them for their age IE a 2015 should have between 40-60K on it. Cars outside of average mileage will skew your results.

 

Around here 2015 Legacies are going for 18-23K for 2.5 premium/limited models

 

The problem with CR is they are only getting people whom have just recently bought the car. Have they every asked anyone whom has had their car 5+ years?

 

BTW Suaru is second only to Ford in terms of brand loyalty

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20141105/RETAIL03/141109911/longer-vehicle-ownership-might-mean-less-loyalty-study-says

 

As for myself, I tend to keep cars a very long time, a decade or more... I have had my 2003 Legacy for nearly 5 years and we are going on 3 for my 2014..

[chowser51]

They have my car listed for $16887.

[Jenk2k]

one of the reasons i bought a used Legacy is becuase everyone else out here (northwest) is buying Outbacks. So I was able to get a really nice sedan with AWD for just over 20k and 11k miles. It has been really good so far. I dont really care how it depreciates, since I'll be paying it off.

[Mark N]

...The problem with CR is they are only getting people whom have just recently bought the car. Have they every asked anyone whom has had their car 5+ years?....

.

Yes, of course they ask on older vehicles. I'm still filling out the yearly questionnaire on my 2013 Ram. I don't know how long they continue gathering data on vehicles, but obviously it's at least 6 years.

[Ovcoursitsilver]

one of the reasons i bought a used Legacy is becuase everyone else out here (northwest) is buying Outbacks. So I was able to get a really nice sedan with AWD for just over 20k and 11k miles. It has been really good so far. I dont really care how it depreciates, since I'll be paying it off.

 

I agree, though I buy new and keep my cars a long time - we currently have a 1 year-old Legacy, a 16 year-old Toyota and an 11 year-old Mazda, all bought new. When I sold my 12 year-old Legacy GT last year, I recovered 20% of what I'd paid for it. I don't worry about how much it depreciates in the early years, as long as I have replacement insurance to cover a total loss.