YeuEmMaiMai Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Subaru will move to lower displacement turbocharged engines just like everyone else in the class. Normally aspirated 6 cylinder engines can't compete and are disappearing. That the 3.6R is still with us, for now at least, is a testament to the solid design of the engine. I don't really care if it disappears as long as its replacement offers improvements in performance and fuel economy. what do you mean can't compete? I had a Acura 2002 CL-S before my current car and it made 120+HP more than the legacy does (it had headers and an intake from a newer TL) and it weighed 200lbs more and it returned superior gas mileage at the same speed when going down the highway. Not to mention that it was substantially quicker in the acceleration department. The move to small displacement engines has everything to do with regulations, not what people want in the car. Good luck with that turbo engine going 200K without major repairs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyR Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 what do you mean can't compete? I had a Acura 2002 CL-S before my current car and it made 120+HP more than the legacy does (it had headers and an intake from a newer TL) and it weighed 200lbs more and it returned superior gas mileage at the same speed when going down the highway. Not to mention that it was substantially quicker in the acceleration department. The move to small displacement engines has everything to do with regulations, not what people want in the car. Good luck with that turbo engine going 200K without major repairs... Here's what I mean. The regulations cover emissions and fuel economy but they are silent on how best to meet them. Car manufacturers have all pretty much reached the same conclusions on the best technologies to satisfy the regulatory requirements. Low displacement, four cylinder turbocharged engines are the most common solution with hybrid vehicles running a distant second. I'm sure that normally aspirated six cylinder engines and even V8s would still be with us absent these regulations. I don't know how the newer engines compare for longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronic Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 My 3.0R is such a sweet engine. Really is a shame the 2020 WRX STi didn't have one of these with a couple of turbos on it. That is 400Hp without really even trying. Unfortunately with the increasing use of electric and smaller engines its going to be a race to the bottom. It would be really nice is Subaru produced some limited edition cars for those that still like to drive fast and don't care about the gas bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 It would be really nice is Subaru produced some limited edition cars ... Realistically, how much would you be willing to pay for that engine option? A true "limited edition" could easily double the price of the vehicle, since the manufacturing and support costs would have to be amortized over very few units. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisvegas Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Unfortunately with the increasing use of electric and smaller engines its going to be a race to the bottom. True Dat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 My 3.0R is such a sweet engine. Really is a shame the 2020 WRX STi didn't have one of these with a couple of turbos on it. That is 400Hp without really even trying. Unfortunately with the increasing use of electric and smaller engines its going to be a race to the bottom. It would be really nice is Subaru produced some limited edition cars for those that still like to drive fast and don't care about the gas bill. Have you driven any turbo Subies? Kind of tough to call the EZ a sweet engine if you've experienced an EJ257 or FA20DIT, issues not withstanding. Realistically, how much would you be willing to pay for that engine option? A true "limited edition" could easily double the price of the vehicle, since the manufacturing and support costs would have to be amortized over very few units. +1 I'd love to see a 300HP LGT with the FA24DIT, but I'm honestly not sure if i would purchase it if a Premium cost more than the high $20ks (in a few years, when I might consider moving on from my current '15 Legacy). What I'm willing to commit to online is not quite the same as what I'm willing to pay for in real life. I did put my money where my mouth was on my'06 WRX TR, '08 STI hatch and '14 FXT, but those days are over for me. My '15 2.5i Legacy is sufficient and it would take a heckuva well-rounded LGT or new FXT (RIP) to make me want to get rid of it. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcEWoLF Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Honestly if I wanted something north of 300hp I wouldn’t even consider a Subaru. I’m really liking what I am seeing from Volvo S60 T6 2019 model! Supercharged and turbocharged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronic Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Have you driven any turbo Subies? Kind of tough to call the EZ a sweet engine if you've experienced an EJ257 or FA20DIT, issues not withstanding. . Yes driven a late model WRX and I took an earlier version STi for a drive and I have to be honest I was disappointed. Have kind of been spoilt rotten by my MR2 Turbo. The issue is that the JDM cars are on another level to the cars that come into this county new. The 3.0R is the same, its 184kW and likes to rev. Its a N/A but feels like a low boost turbo engine. The issue with Subaru is that I'm NEVER going to buy a sedan again, it would have to be a hatchback. My wagon is between the WRX and the STi in terms of engine performance. Its getting hard to find the "Low Cost" sports car option these days without finding your suddenly looking at a Porsche GT3 before your find something that ticks almost all the boxes. Yes I would pay way more for a factory Subaru that put out 350-400Hp. Our roads are shit and you need the 4WD and the ground clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 True, indeed. I realize my desire for a perfect LGT is a pipe dream... '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcEWoLF Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 True, indeed. I realize my desire for a perfect LGT is a pipe dream... Yep and recently they killed off the Forester XT which was a huge letdown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Yep and recently they killed off the Forester XT which was a huge letdown... They're just taking some time to build a bigger and better one! '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCobbs Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I wish someone would just go ahead and do a Ascent swap into the Legacy now. It’s a direct fit! Just need someone that knows what they are doing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grnlantern1 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I wish someone would just go ahead and do a Ascent swap into the Legacy now. It’s a direct fit! Just need someone that knows what they are doing. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWell its coming in 2020.. 2019 is the last year od the 3.6r just confirmed with my friend who works with subaru.. They went to Subaru USA for the Intro to the 2019 Forester and they said 19' is the last year.. So Legacy will get the 2.4Turbo but only Automatucs because of the Eye Sighte Package.. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronic Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 God so boring, there is no way I'm ever buying an automatic and I don't need the eyesight gizmo that suddenly takes over your car. Why bother, just make a brutal 2.4 Turbo manual without all the safety crap and a self drive car without even a steering wheel for those that cannot drive properly or don't like to drive. Ford is getting 257kW or 345Hp from its 2.4 litre engine, its about time Subaru caught up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grnlantern1 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 God so boring, there is no way I'm ever buying an automatic and I don't need the eyesight gizmo that suddenly takes over your car. Why bother, just make a brutal 2.4 Turbo manual without all the safety crap and a self drive car without even a steering wheel for those that cannot drive properly or don't like to drive. Ford is getting 257kW or 345Hp from its 2.4 litre engine, its about time Subaru caught up.Only bad thing with that is the CVT cant handle the power.. Cobb was tuning the XT forester with CVT and could only go with stage 2 because they were blowing the tranny.. So probably the 2020 2.4 will get the 8spd CVT which i heard is junk right now on the ASCENT.. the 6spd is better.. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 So probably the 2020 2.4 will get the 8spd CVT which i heard is junk ... the 6spd is better. Do you even know what a CVT is, or how it works? "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisvegas Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 and I don't need the eyesight gizmo that suddenly takes over your car. just make a self drive car without even a steering wheel for those that cannot drive properly or don't like to drive.. Hi Tronic, just wondering if you are from Auckland NZ ?? If so, then according to the following link, there are plenty of Kiwis who might just need that self drive car that you are referring to https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/kiwis-some-of-the-worst-drivers-in-the-world-top-cop/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grnlantern1 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Do you even know what a CVT is, or how it works?Well its simulated 8spd.. yes its belt driven set up.. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkshooter Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Today I was wondering, since the power numbers and mileage on the 2.4 Ascent motor are so close to the H6, why replace the H6? Especially the fuel economy. Maybe it'll do much better in a smaller vehicle. There's no replacement for displacement. Sure, a turbo or SC 4 can do great things. A bigger motor can generally do the same with less work and wear, lasting much longer. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utc_pyro Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Only bad thing with that is the CVT cant handle the power.. Cobb was tuning the XT forester with CVT and could only go with stage 2 because they were blowing the tranny.. This is because Cobb dosen't put the effort into understanding the integration between the CVT and engine computers, and what's going on in the CVT. They aren't telling the transmission computer about the additional torque coming down the pipe, so it never adjust pully tension to compensate. Thus they eat themselves. The CVT is plenty strong, it just dosent know you turned up the juce. They have some smart people there, but they don't buy long term research cars and don't do a lot of R&D on functions beyond the basics just needed to make more power. . Today I was wondering, since the power numbers and mileage on the 2.4 Ascent motor are so close to the H6, why replace the H6? Especially the fuel economy. Maybe it'll do much better in a smaller vehicle. There's no replacement for displacement. Sure, a turbo or SC 4 can do great things. A bigger motor can generally do the same with less work and wear, lasting much longer. I'm a little confused why you think the 3.6l would be MORE fuel efficient than the 2.4t. There are two less pistons, valve packages, and crank bearing to cause friction on the 2.4l. DI is much better at controlling knock, so there is no need to run pig rich to have boost. There is no point wasting energy on static displacement when you're cursing around in vacuum 95% of the time. Might as well have dynamic displacement that is available any time over 2000rpm, and a CVT that can get you to that threshold instantaneously. That is an even bigger bonus for us enthusiast as we can simply turn up that dynamic displacement with some simple programing tweaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncted Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 There is no point wasting energy on static displacement when you're cursing around in vacuum 95% of the time. I'd probably be cursing too if I was in vacuum 95% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronic Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Not interested in CVT, sounds fantastic in theory, but you just cannot beat big chunks of metal in the form of gears for long term reliability. Its the same with an Electric car, sounds great but if your someone like me who really looks after the engine and gearbox oil, you can make your car almost last a lifetime. Doesn't matter how well you look after the battery its going to need replacement and a CVT will shit its pants. The way I see it going forward is that the "Sports Car" market is really decreasing in size and is being limited to exotic cars only thats are really expensive for what you actually get. A volume Japanese manufacturer like Subaru could make something as quick as a Porsche GT3 for HALF the price. If the Japanese start dropping out of the performance car market then we are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Tronic, I'm not so sure. I'll let you know when the CVT goes in my '14 FXT. So far (>60k miles), it's been pretty nice. If it doesn't last 200k miles with how conservatively my wife and I drive, I'll be pissed. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 subaru is not interested in building a car you guys want... nowhere near it. i agree with a previos gentleman. you will most likely get the fa20dit in the new legacy. It will be a cvt. the 2.4 will most likely go into the sti... unless subaru decides their sti will get the fa20 with better tuning and airflow. the 3.6 is not a great motor. sure, with a good intake and exhaust, it can sound very nice, but it lacks power and mpg for the size. now for the pipe dream... a destroked 3.6 to 3.3 and twin turbos would make one heck of a Legacy GT... yes, I want it to compete with the Kia Stinker. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacyboy1991 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Only bad thing with that is the CVT cant handle the power.. Cobb was tuning the XT forester with CVT and could only go with stage 2 because they were blowing the tranny.. So probably the 2020 2.4 will get the 8spd CVT which i heard is junk right now on the ASCENT.. the 6spd is better.. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk It's basically all the same CVT, just different programming and maybe a stronger cooler. The Legacy 3.6R and the WRX CVT have the same exact HT-CVT, but on the WRX you have drive modes (I, S, S#) which also allow it to go between a simulated 6 speed, or 8 speed in S# mode. The CVT in S# actually feels responsive and not like a CVT at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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