CVT Longevity

[urdrwho]

No dipstick but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to check the trans fluid levels.

 

I would have asked what he means by "sealed." Sealed to the point that the drain plug can never be removed or sealed that if the seal is broken a plague will be released upon the earth?

 

All my life I've done my own work on my cars, it isn't until my recent purchase of the 15 OB that I've had to deal with the shops. Sorry but from what I've seen, the quicker I get things worked out so these people don't have their hands on my car --- the better it will be.

 

It was a service adviser, been there for several years. My question was then does Subaru recommend changing the transmission fluid? He said, "they are sealed, it doesn't even have a dip stick, no way to change the fluid and we only crack them open when there is a problem, otherwise there is no reason to open them up"

 

[ArmyVetMP]

I'm at 204k and have not done a Drain/Fill on my CVT (2010 Legacy), nor have I done the Front/Rear Diff's. Deff need to get on top of that, right along with the Spark Plugs...

[Brisvegas]

I'm at 204k and have not done a Drain/Fill on my CVT (2010 Legacy), nor have I done the Front/Rear Diff's. Deff need to get on top of that, right along with the Spark Plugs...

 

I recently went to the dealer for my 24 month service. (28,000 kms) They changed the differentials fluid as a normal part of that service. Maybe yours was changed by your dealer at some stage in your service history.

 

P.S. I will be requesting a CVT fluid change at 60,000kms.

[Brisvegas]

It was a service adviser, been there for several years. My question was then does Subaru recommend changing the transmission fluid? He said, "they are sealed, it doesn't even have a dip stick, no way to change the fluid and we only crack them open when there is a problem, otherwise there is no reason to open them up":(

 

" no way to change the fluid .." !!!!!

 

I would worry about his expertise if he used those actual words.

 

You will find some diverse opinions on various forums about the actual need to change CVT fluid, so I could somewhat understand it if he said "we don't advise changing the CVT fluid" ...... but for him to say that there is no way to do it, is ignorant or deceptive.

[crudzinskas]

My guess is that there are more things that can go wrong when changing the transmission fluid that dealers don't want to be liable if you transmission fails a few thousand miles after they perform the change. Otherwise, there's not much reason for dealers to reject people coming to them with a small fortune asking for a CVT fluid change. However, I also don't think they want people to have failing transmissions that need replaced as this repair likely makes that car someone's "last Subaru."

 

As an engineer myself, we are very conservative in claiming what something can do and we never want to overstate how well something can perform. With Subaru's history of very conservative engineering and overall development strategy in general, I am inclined to believe when they say lifetime, they really do mean it - within reason of course.

 

The within reason part is of course where the grey area lies as no one knows what the "lifetime" is at this point and I'm sure it's to cover the 1% of cars that would have an unexpected low CVT life that fail to meet the lifetime standard. We've already seen one post of over 200k miles which is quite impressive!

 

Although I doubt Subaru used Consumer Reports as a standard, CR says the life expectancy of a car is 8 years/150,000 miles which is not to hard to meet these days with a well maintained car.

[Brisvegas]

My guess is that there are more things that can go wrong when changing the transmission fluid that dealers don't want to be liable if you transmission fails a few thousand miles after they perform the change. Otherwise, there's not much reason for dealers to reject people coming to them with a small fortune asking for a CVT fluid change. However, I also don't think they want people to have failing transmissions that need replaced as this repair likely makes that car someone's "last Subaru."

 

As an engineer myself, we are very conservative in claiming what something can do and we never want to overstate how well something can perform. With Subaru's history of very conservative engineering and overall development strategy in general, I am inclined to believe when they say lifetime, they really do mean it - within reason of course.

 

The within reason part is of course where the grey area lies as no one knows what the "lifetime" is at this point and I'm sure it's to cover the 1% of cars that would have an unexpected low CVT life that fail to meet the lifetime standard. We've already seen one post of over 200k miles which is quite impressive!

 

Although I doubt Subaru used Consumer Reports as a standard, CR says the life expectancy of a car is 8 years/150,000 miles which is not to hard to meet these days with a well maintained car.

 

I think you have made some very valid points here. The dealer may well have those thoughts in mind in regards to CVT fluid changes, although I have recently spoken to Subaru Australia head office about this subject, and no such concerns were even hinted at. They said all dealers were capable of performing a fluid change and that it wouldn't be a problem. I think your point on what constitutes "a lifetime" is very valid .... and I tend to think a lot of manufacturers use this term very loosley, and do in fact take into account how long the average owner keeps a car, rather than someone who keeps it "forever."

[tumbleweed 49]

He said, "they are sealed, it doesn't even have a dip stick, no way to change the fluid and we only crack them open when there is a problem, otherwise there is no reason to open them up"(

 

He is right about the dip stick, there isn't one. But the CVT is not sealed. While doing my 6K mile service today I took a good look at it. The drain plug is right on the bottom of the pan and easy to get to, the fill plug looks fairly accessible too. I plan on doing a drain and fill about every 30K..

[Brisvegas]

I plan on doing a drain and fill about every 30K..

 

I also plan on changing the fluid at some stage.

 

I'll do some more investigating and take expert opinions on board, but it seems that the way the car is driven can be a determining factor on the time frame for a service. I'm assuming that a vehicle that does primarily stop start hard city driving would require a shorter time frame that one that does mainly easy highway miles???

 

The other factor that maybe worth considering if someone is intending doing their own CVT service, is as to whether the vehicle is under warranty or not. I've heard anecdotally that when some owners do a simple engine oil change and at some stage have later made a warranty claim, they have been asked to produce the receipt showing the quality of oil used. That makes me wonder if in the case of this theoretical "lifetime CVT," harsher questions could be asked of an owner if he did his own CVT fluid change, and then at some stage he was having transmission problems and asked a dealer to fix it under warranty.

[Perscitus]

Correct, the worst thing for CVTF/ATF is stop-n-go in high heat for extended periods of time, or a passengers/cargo heavy or towing car going up and down grades in higher 'gears' or full-auto mode - especially on a regular basis.

 

 

Next comes CVT launching, WOT pulls or any ubrupt acceleration while the mini TC hasnt locked up yet. If you want to get a sense of how all this looks in your particular case, driving style, etc - monitor your CVTF Temp and other params using BtSsm.

 

 

Casual or even spirited driving or cruising, at speed, is the least stressful to the CVT internals AND CVTF.

 

 

If you have warranty concerns, drain-n-fill with OE fluid ($$$ for the amber HT CVTF, far less for the blue and green vanilka CVTFs) and they wont be able to tell or have any argument or care. Remember - these are the same people who perform warranty services on heavily modified WRX/STIs, buy and resell botched back-to-stock trade-ins as 'certified preowned', nickle and dime seniors on tire rotations but replace fast&furious kid's shortblocks under warranty.

 

 

 

If one dealership's service dept gives you any type of grief, visit another one.

 

They are typically indifferent so long as they are paid - either by SoA/SIA or you.

[jeffs3232]

I can't speak for Subaru CVT's, but I had great luck in Nissan CVT's (which had known issues from the 2003-2009 models). I put 180k on my 2004 Nissan Murano and never changed the fluid. Even with high miles, I felt like the CVT had a lot of life left, and never gave me the impression it was going to fail.

 

I personally like the CVT in general. I live where there are a lot of hills and the shift in gearing is seamless, less hunting around for the right gear. I am curious how CVT's perform in higher altitudes.

[Grnlantern1]

Well dropped off my 15' 3.6r at the dealer Monday for the CVT TSB BULLETIN and got the call today that They will be replacing my Transmission because the leak was coming from the access cover there not allowed to open or repair..

 

So have a 18' Impreza Sport loaner and man that 7 Speed CVT sucks.. Feels like the car us Misfiring at low speeds 15 to 20mph.. I asked the my Service Tech about it and he told me there is a TSB BULLETIN on the Engine and CVT Software.. Man I'm getting so many bad vibes lately about Subaru..

 

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[chowser51]

Well dropped off my 15' 3.6r at the dealer Monday for the CVT TSB BULLETIN and got the call today that They will be replacing my Transmission because the leak was coming from the access cover there not allowed to open or repair..

 

 

How many miles do you have? I'm at 72k and about to put on another 1k going to NC and back to get my grandkids

[Brisvegas]

Well dropped off my 15' 3.6r at the dealer Monday for the CVT TSB BULLETIN and got the call today that They will be replacing my Transmission because the leak was coming from the access cover there not allowed to open or repair..

 

So have a 18' Impreza Sport loaner and man that 7 Speed CVT sucks.. Feels like the car us Misfiring at low speeds 15 to 20mph.. I asked the my Service Tech about it and he told me there is a TSB BULLETIN on the Engine and CVT Software.. Man I'm getting so many bad vibes lately about Subaru.. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

I'm sorry if I missed it, but can you give more info on the CVT TSB BULLETIN that you are referring to here.

[Grnlantern1]

How many miles do you have? I'm at 72k and about to put on another 1k going to NC and back to get my grandkids

I have 94k what set me off to have it checked out was I was looking underneath my car just checking things put and noticed my Transmission pan was black, but wasn't wet and didnt have any oil drips in the garage or parking lot.. So when I did my Oil Change I had the Service Tech check it out and sure enough the Transmission was leaking.. He told me about the TSB Bulletin they had issued out about Possible Leaking Transmissions.. Subaru did a 10yr/100k Warranty on the CVT Drivetrain so make sure you guys get it checked out.. Once that 100k Hits all repairs will be out of your pocket including Transmission if needed.. I hope this answered both posts..

 

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[ncted]

Well dropped off my 15' 3.6r at the dealer Monday for the CVT TSB BULLETIN and got the call today that They will be replacing my Transmission because the leak was coming from the access cover there not allowed to open or repair..

 

So have a 18' Impreza Sport loaner and man that 7 Speed CVT sucks.. Feels like the car us Misfiring at low speeds 15 to 20mph.. I asked the my Service Tech about it and he told me there is a TSB BULLETIN on the Engine and CVT Software.. Man I'm getting so many bad vibes lately about Subaru..

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

I was considering buying a 2018 Impreza Limited Hatchback before I drove the Legacy. The Legacy seemed so much smoother and responsive. I assumed it was just the dearth of power (or torque) from the FB20 in the Impreza, but it could have been the CVT, now that you mentioned it.

[ammcinnis]

I assumed it was just the dearth of power (or torque) from the FB20 in the Impreza, but it could have been the CVT, now that you mentioned it.

The Legacy (FB25) and Impreza (FB20) share the same Gen 2 (TR580) CVT, although the TCM programming is likely to be slightly different between the two.

[ammcinnis]

This just in: Subaru posted TSB 16-115-18 on 6 Sep 2018, which apparently extends the warranty on all CVTs in MY 2016 and 2017 Legacys and Outbacks to 10 years/100,000 miles. This matches the CVT warranty extension already in effect for MY 2015 vehicles.

[ncted]

The Legacy (FB25) and Impreza (FB20) share the same Gen 2 (TR580) CVT, although the TCM programming is likely to be slightly different between the two.

 

Based on my test drives of the admittedly small sample size of one Impreza and one Legacy, the programming must be significantly different. I don't know how direct injection factors in, but the Impreza has it and the Legacy does not. Also, the number of "speeds" is different by one. Presumably this is just programming, as you said. I don't know much about CVTs. I was just noting how different they felt.

[Brisvegas]

This just in: Subaru posted TSB 16-115-18 on 6 Sep 2018, which apparently extends the warranty on all CVTs in MY 2016 and 2017 Legacys and Outbacks to 10 years/100,000 miles. This matches the CVT warranty extension already in effect for MY 2015 vehicles.

 

Thanks for your post ammcinnis. After reading it, I contacted Subaru Australia asking them specifically if they intended following suit in regards to the extended warranty, and if not, then why not. I also asked if I should be worried about the longevity of Subaru CVT's.

Following is the reply I received .....

 

" ... Thank you for contacting Subaru Australia.

 

Subaru of America is a separate business entity to Subaru of Australia, they also manufacture their own vehicles to different product specifications and design regulations specific to the American market, which would mean many of the internal components within the vehicle will be completely different between country to country, this is why what occurs in the American Market often will not translate to the Australian market.

 

Please understand that a transmission is made up of many components internally, and there can be a multitude of reasons as to how these components could fail, in the event you should have a concern with your CVT you should raise your concern with a Subaru service centre immediately, the factory warranty on your Subaru vehicle listed on file is for 5 years, however should you have any concerns outside of your warranty period a claim for 'goodwill' assistance can be submitted through to Subaru Australia, which will be assessed accordingly on a case by case scenario.

 

In regards to forums it is important to understand that much of the information that is posted online in forums will be completely unrelated to each other even when regarding the same components, any search regarding component failure in any manufacturers vehicles will often bring up multiple pages of concerns that on the surface may appear to be related, but when looked into further will be completely different.

 

In any case, Subaru Australia stands behind the terms of our manufacturers warranty and should you require any assistance in the future in regards to your CVT, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Warm Regards

 

Phillip O'Hearn

Escalations Team Leader

Subaru (Aust) Pty Limited

[Grnlantern1]

Well I'll post up here and the other CVT Thread.. I just recieved email from SOA about my Warranty with my New CVT because I had to have it replaced. I have a 15' 3.6r with 94K with a 7yr / 100k mile extended Warranty.

 

So Basically the what they told me in my situation I will get a 1yr Unlimited Mileage Warranty because I drive more than 24k Miles a Year.. The CVT Housing or (Case) of the Transmission is Refurbished but All Internals are Brand New to Subaru Spec.

 

So unfortunately we as owners will not get our clock started over even with a Brand New Transmission. This kinda frustrates me because I will be monitoring my Transmission at every oil change for the next year because if this problem returns I will out of pocket for repairs or transmission. I hope this helps everyone with issues.

 

Just keep an eye on your Transmission Pan for any Blackness of oil and if you change your own oil take a look around the area where your transmission and engine meet up and check your plastic covers for oil..

 

 

Here is the breakdown of warranty from SOA.

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact Subaru of America, Inc.*

 

I am sorry to learn that the CVT for your 2015 Legacy Sedan needs replacement.* I am glad that it is covered under the CVT warranty extension.

 

The replacement CVT comes with one of the following three warranties, whichever is more beneficial.* The first is the remainder of the CVT warranty extension, which is valid until 100,000 miles or 3/12/205, whichever comes first.* The second is 2 years/24,000 miles from the completion of the repair, whichever comes first.* The third is 1 year/unlimited mileage from the completion of the repair.**

 

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

 

Sincerely

 

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[ammcinnis]

So unfortunately we as owners will not get our clock started over even with a Brand New Transmission.

I think your expectations are unrealistic. I've never seen a limited warranty that "restarts the clock" after a covered repair or replacement.

 

See "the other CVT thread" for additional comments.

[Perscitus]

Thanks for your post ammcinnis. After reading it, I contacted Subaru Australia asking them specifically if they intended following suit in regards to the extended warranty, and if not, then why not. I also asked if I should be worried about the longevity of Subaru CVT's.

Following is the reply I received ..... " ... Thank you for contacting Subaru Australia.Escalations Team Leader Subaru (Aust) Pty Limited

Beautiful example of CYA writing SoAustralia. Americans might excel at this, but it looks like Aussies are not too far behind. Must be them Anglo-saxon lineage.

[Brisvegas]

Beautiful example of CYA writing SoAustralia. Americans might excel at this, but it looks like Aussies are not too far behind. Must be them Anglo-saxon lineage.

 

Yep .... methinks you might be right

[Brisvegas]

Beautiful example of CYA writing SoAustralia. Americans might excel at this, but it looks like Aussies are not too far behind. Must be them Anglo-saxon lineage.

 

I sent a further E mail to the same guy from Subaru Australia. In this E mail I basically asked for more clarification on his statements that America and Australia were two different operations, and that they don't necessarily relate to each other. I queried that logic, because I figured rightly or wrongly, that Subaru HQ in Japan would have the final say over important issues like warranty extensions .... and I assumed (again rightly or wrongly) that the CVT's would be manufactured in Japan and therefore any problems encountered in USA would be reflected here in Australia.

 

Here is his latest reply ...

 

 

" ... To further clarify.

 

Subaru Australia and Subaru of America are owned by 2 separate businesses.

 

Some of the American vehicles will have transmissions manufactured within the USA, however we do not have access to that information to confirm which vehicles.

 

The transmissions in vehicles in the USA will also be made to different specifications, the parts internally will be designed differently to cater for variances such as, kilometers vs miles, design rules specific to individual countries, gear ratios to meet emission standards etc.. as such the transmissions will have different part numbers for many of the different components within, and these parts will be required to perform in different ways even though the overall design is very similar.

 

Many of the complaints in the American market will involve parts that have different part numbers to the same type of vehicle's in Australia, as such they cannot be compared as they are not identical, you will find that this is also the reason why there may be a recall in one country for a particular concern, but it does not affect other countries with the same type of vehicles, this can be found across the majority of vehicle manufacturers across the globe.

 

As previously advised should you have any concerns regarding your transmission in the future please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Warm Regards

 

Phillip O'Hearn

Escalations Team Leader

Subaru (Aust) Pty Limited ......"

[Perscitus]

Hahaha, please stop making me laugh.

 

This guy is wasting your time, although its now extra clear you will get nowhere with SoAustralia.

 

 

 

The transmissions are identical, part numbers vary based on silly things such as:

a. model car pairing b. destination market (smoke n mirrors)

c. third-party sub-assemble supplier changes d. Subaru or supplier revisions

 

 

- Forget this guy and their warranty extension.

 

- Pickup any applicable ECU and TCU reflashes for your 6tg gen.

- Drain and fill your TR690 with the Subaru HTCVT amber fluid, Amsoil CVTF or Mitasu CVT Ultra fluid. Do this 2-3 times (5-8 quarts each time) within a 100-200km window.

- Add a Mishimoto or Setrab or similar CVTF cooler (radiator corw bypass mode or with an in-line thermostat bypass)

 

- monitor your CVTF with BtSsm

- add a Transmission bushing insert (soft, semi-compressed or uncompressed)

made and sold my a member on here

- add rear Diff bushing inserts

 

 

 

This will easily let the TR690 outlast the Warranty extension the SoAustralia would not offer.

 

 

The EZ36D and TR690 are a good, tank-like pairing. Just need good TLC to easily do 500K km.