CVT Longevity

[ncted]

Really? KM vs. Miles? Phillip O'Hearn is yanking your chain.

[XT-sub]

- Add a Mishimoto or Setrab or similar CVTF cooler ...

 

FYI - The Australian spec Japan built Liberty (Legacy) 3.6R comes standard with a factory fitted transmission cooler.

[Perscitus]

Yup, same part first installed on JDM WRX S4s and Levorg GT-Ss in 2014.

 

USDM owners of various Subarus have sourced that part and used it as a CVTF/ATF or Engine Oil cooler... before the Ascent brought it here and used it as an OE engine oil cooler earlier this year.

 

Why they did that beats me as the behemot needs a CVTF cooler even more than the little cars.

 

 

As a CVTF/ATF cooler - its tiny, but gets the job done. In OE flavor, its still plumbed inline with the radiator core, so best to fully bypass that or get a thermostatic bypass in place.

[Brisvegas]

FYI - The Australian spec Japan built Liberty (Legacy) 3.6R comes standard with a factory fitted transmission cooler.

 

D, Just sent you a PM.

[XT-sub]

Yup, same part first installed on JDM WRX S4s and Levorg GT-Ss in 2014.

 

As a CVTF/ATF cooler - its tiny, but gets the job done. ...

 

If you mean the same one that Opie fitted here. Then yes, it does a great job factory fitted sitting in front of the radiator on our 2016 Liberty 3.6R even though it is probably only about 2/3 the size of the Mishimoto CVT cooler.

 

Yesterday I checked the CVT temperature on our Liberty 3.6R to confirm what I had discovered previously. The CVT runs much cooler than the same TR690 CVT in our previous 2013 SJ XT Premium over the same road & driving conditions.

 

On the SJ Foz XT I regularly recorded around 82ºC (180ºF) for the CVT temp & 98ºC (208ºF) engine oil temp. Ambient temperature changes didn’t have a huge bearing on this.

 

Using ActiveOBD via the same OBDLink LX Bluetooth adaptor, I checked the Liberty 3.6R over 270kms & found the CVT temp sat mainly on 62ºC (144ºF) for most of the trip & only varied between 59ºC to 64º (138ºF to 147ºF). Engine oil temp sat around 91ºC to 92ºC (196ºF to 197.5ºF).

 

This 270km trip was in 50km/h built up area traffic for about 1 1/4 hours then highway driving at mainly 110km/h. This was with adaptive cruise on once on the highway & mainly in SiDrive ‘I’ mode, but at times in ‘S’ & ‘S#’ modes, & up & down ratios using the paddle shifters. A few hills were encountered up & down so adaptive cruise was also using engine braking & CVT ratio changes to control the speed on descents.

 

I believe the Australian spec 2013 SJ Foz XT had the same CVT cooler as in the Australian spec 2016 Liberty 3.6R TR690 CVT combination.

[Perscitus]

Nice! Those are great temps! Since you have an ODBLink LX, update to latest v4.x firmware and forget ActiveOBD or ActiveOBD TQ Plugin and skip right to BtSsm.

 

 

You will get at much more useful data from your ECU and can still monitor and log CVTF temp frombTCU.

[XT-sub]

Thanks. BtSsm looks very interesting. It looks a bit slow for logging with an OBDLink LX in K-Line mode but it should be good enough to try & see how it all works.

 

BtSsm supported hardware

[Perscitus]

Correct - but with your car K-line is no longer supported either way - only SSM over CAN (plenty fast even in wireless mode using OBDLink LX/MX and e-tune ready fast wired via Tactrix OPv2).

[XT-sub]

Then it looks like an update to f/w 4.3.0 for my OBDLink LX then.

[Perscitus]

Indeed LX and MX beyond 4.2.x work perfectly fine and in SSM over CAN mode.

 

For hands-down BEST performance (and zero data hiccups, glitches, etc) your only bet is a hard-wire using a Tactrix OP v2 cable. Guaranteed best speed, even faster that RRs logger in SSM over CAN mode. Fast enough for e-tuning, etc (easily hit 40-60Hz, can even hit 100Hz depending on what you log).

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Thanks. BtSsm looks very interesting. It looks a bit slow for logging with an OBDLink LX in K-Line mode but it should be good enough to try & see how it all works.

 

BtSsm supported hardware

 

software on android is utter crap. it is the only application that will not connect to my OBD Link LX adapter alternates between querying ECU to connecting. don't waste your $15 on that crap... and yes I am on 4.3 firmware. all other OBD2 software functions just fine with it

[Perscitus]

Its not the software - its the interaction between your ECU, CAN bus protocol, dongle, bluetooth stack and the phone.

 

What you need is a Tactrix OP v2 hardwire and all your problems would disappear.

 

You can thank Subaru for ditching SSM-over-Kline and SSM in general with this and the upcoming gens.

[XT-sub]

software on android is utter crap. it is the only application that will not connect to my OBD Link LX adapter alternates between querying ECU to connecting. don't waste your $15 on that crap... and yes I am on 4.3 firmware. all other OBD2 software functions just fine with it

I was hoping it would be better than that. Surely it can’t be as bad as ActiveOBD! Over the last 4 years I have had problems initially connecting ActiveODB on both my android smartphone & tablet via Bluetooth to OBDLink LX & the ECU on our previous car (SJ Foz XT) & this car (2016 Liberty 3.6R). Sometimes it would initially connect but usually it wouldn't. Whereas Torque Pro connected every single time.

 

After updating OBDLink LX from f/w ver:3.4.1 to f/w ver:4.3.0 it is still the same. ActiveODB is still flaky & Torque Pro connects every time.

 

And for the few times that I’ve tried it, OBDwiz on my Win10 Laptop connected every time via Bluetooth to OBDLink LX & the ECU.

... What you need is a Tactrix OP v2 hardwire and all your problems would disappear.

Hardwire is always better, but a bit pricy & not as convenient for the odd bit of monitoring I do now & again.

[Perscitus]

Nothing wrong with OBDLink LX/MX solution.... its just a tad flakey (like wifi, bluetooth typically is, especially when dealing with expecting to write data at 20-60Hz).

 

Its not BtSsms fault. Its a shortcoming of the hardware and interface.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Nothing wrong with ODBLink LX/MX solution.... its just a tad flakey (like wifi, bluetooth typically is, especially when dealing with expecting to write data at 20-60Hz).

 

 

 

Its not BtSsms fault. Its a shortcoming of the hardware and interface.

 

Bluetooth implementation on a galaxy s8 is not subpar... it functions as expected

[Perscitus]

Bluetooth stack and OBDLink LX/MX capability to stream SSM over CAN via bluetooth is subpar for the type of stream BtSsm is pulling. It would likely be subpar on a PC with Bluetooth 4.x too.

 

 

 

Regardless of whether you're running Android v5 or v9, on a Galaxy S5 or S9 or other Android device.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

^ so in other words because they cannot program properly, their software does not work. So again if you have what they say you need it may or may not work

 

From their page

 

OBDLink LX/MX bluetooth adapter (K-line up to 2014, or CAN 2007+)

This adapter can use K-line or CAN over Bluetooth

 

Prerequisite: K-line mode has NO prerequisites! (but warning, it is a bit slow with this specific

adapter - as slow as 2 samples per second

)

So let us review

2014? Check

BT? Check

Select K-line connection in software? Check

Does not work as stated? Check

Other software connect to and works with this adapter? Check OBDLinx, Car Scanner Pro, Active ODB.. all installed, all working

[Perscitus]

Wrong. First, its not 'them', its 'him' - a one-man show - the screenname on here is Heiche. A great chap and a fellow LGT (well ex-LGT now) owner who simply decided to build something for himself and then share it with other Subaru owners. Second - BtSsm development has leveled off and little to no updates have been needed or done in over a year. Its basically finished.

 

BtSsm is unaffiliated with either OBD Solutions (OBDLink devices) or Subaru and their SSM III/IV suite. Its a home-brew app by the owners for the owners and its the best there is currently.

 

Works perfect with BtSsm dongle in K-line more or any wired solution (VAG-com cable, Tactrix OPv2) because of the nature of the data stream.... the shortcoming (if any) is on the OBDLink side.

 

And in case you're interested I own a BtSsm dongle, OBDLink LX, MX and Tactrix OPv2. Each has its use and OBDLink and their own software is excellent for vanilla OBDII work, emissions readiness checks, etc.... not so much SSM over CAN data streaming.

 

Now, it will work most of the time, but don't expect sampling rate to be near Tactrix OPv2 + BtSsm, logs might show some gaps, glitches, bad data, etc. Likely <1-2% but still.

 

Only way to solve this is for OBD Solutions and BtSsm to collaborate and strengthen the hardware and software integration from both sides.

 

Likelihood of this happening given the tiny BtSsm footprint is slim.

[toy4rick]

Well, took my 2017 Legacy in for window seal warranty work, spoke to a different service adviser about the transmission and was told the same thing. Unless you are pull a lot of heavy weight or doing some serious climbing... the transmission fluids are not serviceable.

 

Oh yeah, and they charge $550.00 for the 30k service. Oil change (free to me) air filter, cabin filter, fuel injector cleaning and break fluid flush. ahhhhhh nahhhhh

[Brisvegas]

Well, took my 2017 Legacy in for window seal warranty work, spoke to a different service adviser about the transmission and was told the same thing. Unless you are pull a lot of heavy weight or doing some serious climbing... the transmission fluids are not serviceable.

 

I am assuming here that you meant that he actually said they are not recommended to be serviced ...... because if it is "servicable" if the owners " pull a lot of heavy weight or doing some serious climbing" ... then the same transmission must still be "serviceable" if owners don't do those things. These service guys need to get their stories straight because it is clear that changing the fluid is possible. I wonder if it is a case of these service managers are merely just spreading the head office mantra that the transmissions are lifetime/maintenance free, and therefore they are either unprepared or incapable of doing the service if asked by a customer who wants it done. Auto transmissions shop experts can do it ..... but apparently some Subaru dealers (not all) can't

 

I'm not necessarily advocating a transmission fluid service here, but I just find the response from some dealerships on this subject very strange.

 

Check out this link ...

 

http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/modern-maintenance-dealing-with-a-sealed-transmissions

[XT-sub]

... it is the only application that will not connect to my OBD Link LX adapter alternates between querying ECU to connecting. don't waste your $15 on that crap... and yes I am on 4.3 firmware. all other OBD2 software functions just fine with it

 

I should have taken your advice. In my case it was $21.99 AUD. Did you ever get it to connect to the ECU?

 

With my OBDLink LX on f/w 4.3.0 I tried all available connection options & only two displayed: “Searching for BTSSM device” then progressed to “Querying ECU”. But that is as far as they got – just sat there displaying “Querying ECU” each time. Those two options were; ‘OBDLink LX/MX, bluetooth, CAN (2007+ ecu patch reqd)’, & 'OBDLink LX/MX, bluetooth, K-Line (up to 2014)’.

 

The other options displayed either; “Paired BTSSM device not found”, or "USB device not available”, & didn’t progress any further.

 

I tried everything I can think of to get it to connect to the ECU but it won’t. Torque Pro connected every time to the ECU & sometimes ActiveOBD connected & other times it didn’t.

 

Has anyone got BtSsm to connect to the ECU on a gen6 Legacy (2016 Liberty 3.6R in my case) via OBDLink LX?

[Perscitus]

Yes plenty of people have, I tested this combo on a 2015 WRX, a 2017 USDM Legacy and a 2019 Ascent. You must be doing something wrong.

 

Did you contact Heiche, support at btssm.com? He can help troubleshoot.

 

 

 

These newer Hitachi-based Subarus should all work:

 

2015-2018 JDM/ADM/USDM Legacy/Liberty, Outback

 

2019 Ascent

2015-2018 WRX/Levorg

2014-2019 Forester, FXT

2014-2019 XV, Impreza

 

 

 

The ONLY connectivity options for all these Hitachi-based cars is SSM-over-CAN

which means you can ONLY use one of two of the picklist items:

 

 

wireless - OBDLink LX/MX, bluetooth, CAN (2007+, ECU patch reqd)

 

wired - OPv2, usb+otg, CAN (2007+, ECU patch reqd)

 

 

Ignore the patch reqd comment - its only for older Denso-based Subarus that had SSM-over-CAN.

 

 

 

Did you setup an ALIAS on first startup or havent gotten to that stage?

If you did and have a CAR PROFILE created, make sure its called 'BASIC' to start.

[XT-sub]

Thanks for the feedback. That is encouraging that it does work on my model.

 

‘OBDLink LX/MX, bluetooth, CAN (2007+, ECU patch reqd)’ was the one I persevered with. I remembered that being the one to use from earlier posts. Like-wise for ignoring the patch requirement comment.

 

I tried to set up a Car Profile but that option remained greyed out, I suspected it had to connect to the ECU before I could do that. And I did read somewhere that I had to initially call the Car Profile ‘BASIC’.

 

I can’t really see what I could be doing wrong, but I’ll do some more testing later & also try it on the Android Tablet to see if that works any better.

 

The main thing is to get it working so I can log CVT temps over longer term various driving & load conditions & post some of that info here.

[Perscitus]

One thing to check is the firmware of the LX via the OBDLink native app, although I believe v4.3.0 is the latest. If not, update it and see of that helps, else contact Heiche support at btssm dot com and he will help you troubleshoot.

 

 

 

Latest OBDLink MX firmware for example is v4.3.2

 

 

 

He has special debug versions of BtSsm and can see far more in the logs of the app than us (mere mortals).

 

 

 

And yes, you are completely right - seems your dongle and BtSsm never establish connection and the ECU stream never begins (hence no prompt about unknown ECU/TCU, alias setup, etc).

 

 

Try renaming your phone in Bluetooth settings to something short (say MYS9) see of that helps. And make sure you set the privilages right for BtSsm on install.

[XT-sub]

No improvement when I installed BtSsm & tried it on my Android Tablet.

 

I renamed the Tablet to a short 4 letter name without spaces. Checked that OBDLink LX had the latest f/w (which is 4.3.0 for the LX), but I re-installed f/w 4.3.0 anyway via the Windows install utility, & the log says it installed correctly. Privileges are fine.

 

After that, OBDwiz on my laptop reports for OBDLink LX when connected:

“Firmware ID: STN1155 v4.3.0

Hardware ID: OBDLink LX BT r1.2

Protocol: ISO 15765-4 CAN (11bit ID, 500kbaud)

OBD Standard: EOBD”

 

On the Tablet (running Android 5.0), Torque Pro, ActiveOBD, & OBDwiz all connect to the ECU via OBDLink LX first time every time.

 

I’m fairly confident BtSsm is connecting to the OBDLink LX but not to the ECU. Because when I try it with the ignition in accessories (instead of ignition ON or the engine running) it keeps searching & doesn’t get to ‘Querying ECU’, which it does with the ignition ON or the engine running.

 

The only thing I can think of, I have an historic U0073 (comms) fault code that I can’t clear with Torque Pro or OBDwiz. Torque Pro states that with this type of green historic code it may require quite a few engine start/stop cycles to clear. If it doesn’t eventually clear I’ll do an ECU reset by disconnecting the battery.

 

So I might leave further testing until that code clears. If I then don’t have any success with BtSsm I’ll see if Heiche can suggest anything.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions & patience.