Dealer waiting 4 car I hear price 4 pads !!!!!

[TwoTone]

The tech I know says the same thing about Mercedes reliability. He is one of the master techs at the local dealer, and he gets a lot of the particularly difficult jobs. He gets more per job because of his skill level, but the work invariably takes longer than it is supposed to, so it dilutes his earnings. He routinely works on Sundays to catch up. He is making good money, but it obviously hurts when he only gets paid for 2 hours work on a 4 hour job.

 

Nobody cares when the tech spends more time on their vehicle then they're paid for, only want to bitch if they feel someone is 'getting' one over on them.

 

The owners of the last shop I worked at were both MB techs, one was an A tech.

The shop they opened was a general shop but specialized in MB. They started to notice a lot of Chrysler parts on MB after the purchase and the quality starting to slip.

[SubieN8]

^ No joke, FCA is terrible

[Bombdigitty]

I know a few mechanics at dealerships. The hours they charge for are never the hours they actually work on the cars for. He recently told me that he can have three jobs, bill for 8 hours and only work for two. How is that even remotely accurate?

 

Standard Job times are meant to cover you when shit goes south. If they spend a full day working on your car, but can only bill you for 4 hours. they are supposed to only bill you the 4 hours.

 

It goes both ways.

[laz]

How about they charge extra because shit goes south, not every ******* time?

[08SpecB_DE]

They aren't charging you extra. Per the manufacturer, it takes x amount of time to do a job. A shop needs that basis to operate. I can't tell you how many times my boss pokes his head under a hood and says "That should only take an hour" and charges for an hour. It screws him over more times than he would admit. You can't knock the tech for being efficient and good at his job.

 

Imagine being a shop owner...customer comes in for an issue. You diagnose, say it's going to cost x amount for parts and x amount for labor bringing the total to x. You now locked them into that price. Well, things are rusty, bolts break, bushings are seized up and now it's going to be another $500 to fix. Customer then says the shop is pulling a bait and switch, they're very upset with the new price because they had just enough for the first quote, blah blah blah. No matter what you tell them, they don't want to hear it, you are an asshole because now you want more money. How would you then handle that situation?

[laz]

I do all the time, but not with cars. I deal with many estimates and quotes and I always give a range in price. Experience comes in on how you estimate a job and if you screw up then it is on you. There is also the law of averages and some things are easier than others but I never overcharge on every job thinking that the worst is going to happen.

 

When I’m on site I actually charge for the actual amount of time that I work. I tend to work efficiently and my customers know that. There are times when things have gotten messed up, and sometimes I can’t charge all the hours that were put in a job but that is where the law of averages comes in.

 

So if I see a really hard job that is going to take longer than usual then I give them a range or don’t do it. If I really don’t want to do something then I quote high and it’s on them if they want to pay, but that is rare. In the end I charge fairly and my rates are within the average of what other people charge.

 

It just sucks that dealerships tend to charge 30% to 60% more than other comparable shops charge for the same work. Something is not right.

 

When work is needed on my cars for things that I don’t fix myself I use two independent shops. They charge me a fair price that is lower than a dealership and their work is guaranteed. They have overhead as well and they still run a successful business.

[apexi]

Parts prices can also play a pretty big role.. like a repair I had done for example.. $200-$300 for a reman aftermarket steering rack, vs $700 for an oem Subaru one.

[laz]

That is true. But parts prices are another ballgame on its own.

[08SpecB_DE]

Dealerships make most of their money through the service department. I don't know how much they make on cars, but its not enough to keep the lights on. Dealer parts are always more expensive and their labor rates are a little higher, ergo they cost more. The timed services are a joke and the biggest scam. I'll bet my yearly salary those techs aren't putting a wrench on subframe bolts, propeller shaft bolts, etc. Even when I'm old and no longer wrenching, I won't take my car to the dealer for anything other than recalls or warranty work, depending on the age of the vehicle. Dealerships as a company have no integrity, which is why I'll never work at one (if I can help it).

[urdrwho]

I know a few mechanics at dealerships. The hours they charge for are never the hours they actually work on the cars for. He recently told me that he can have three jobs, bill for 8 hours and only work for two. How is that even remotely accurate?

Yep, it is called flat rates. Don't get me started on flat rates.

 

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

[urdrwho]

First I was referring to things, like insurance, electricity, mortgage all the costs that are involved in running a business that guys doing a job in the driveway don't take into account when they post on forums I did the job for this much compared to a dealer or shop.

 

Flat rate is what it is. I would have been total fine working hourly as long as customer were willing to pay when their jobs went to shit.

 

I can tell you it's no fun sitting around for 40 hours and getting a check for 17 hours cause it's summer and slow.

I'd be willing to pay for time worked. So much that I have independents that do t & m work. Yep there have been times that the rusted bolt cost me more.

 

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

[08SpecB_DE]

First I was referring to things, like insurance, electricity, mortgage all the costs that are involved in running a business that guys doing a job in the driveway don't take into account when they post on forums I did the job for this much compared to a dealer or shop.

 

Flat rate is what it is. I would have been total fine working hourly as long as customer were willing to pay when their jobs went to shit.

 

I can tell you it's no fun sitting around for 40 hours and getting a check for 17 hours cause it's summer and slow.

 

If you don't mind driving to Newark, DE we could use another tech. Hourly pay. DM me if you're interested.

[tornichoe]

They aren't charging you extra. Per the manufacturer, it takes x amount of time to do a job. A shop needs that basis to operate. I can't tell you how many times my boss pokes his head under a hood and says "That should only take an hour" and charges for an hour. It screws him over more times than he would admit. You can't knock the tech for being efficient and good at his job.

 

Imagine being a shop owner...customer comes in for an issue. You diagnose, say it's going to cost x amount for parts and x amount for labor bringing the total to x. You now locked them into that price. Well, things are rusty, bolts break, bushings are seized up and now it's going to be another $500 to fix. Customer then says the shop is pulling a bait and switch, they're very upset with the new price because they had just enough for the first quote, blah blah blah. No matter what you tell them, they don't want to hear it, you are an asshole because now you want more money. How would you then handle that situation?

 

Totally get it. But those estimates still need to be reasonable. If you are taking apart the transmission, yes there are more things you are removing, more parts inside that you could find broken/worn. And I would rather prefer getting a range. Its going to be roughly x for parts and y-z for labor, and be charged the amount close to what it actually took.

 

However for simple jobs like an oil change or in this case replacing pads all around, there is no reason to quote some of the outrageous prices we see.

 

Changing pads all around shouldn't take more than an hour for a shop tech. Sure, if every single one of the lug nuts is cross threaded and stripped, may be a couple of hours.

 

$160 for an oil change and a visual inspection, is excessive. Parts cannot cost more than $40. It really cannot take more than half an hour to do the job, even if you were drinking a beer while the oil drained.

 

If they charged 70 bucks or so, more folks would probably get it done at the dealer. If the customer experience is good, they'd also likely be inclined to bring the vehicle in for other little jobs.

[Too40gawlf]

Yep, it is called flat rates. Don't get me started on flat rates.

 

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

So, Im not defending dealerships, as in my experience, 70% of the time they do half ass work and charge double ass rates.

 

HOWEVER, if a job is supposed to a normal person 3 hours and a tech has done it 250 times and has figured out how to do it in 80 minutes, why should he get less than what he is supposed to because he has gotten really good at it?

 

Now if that same tech can put two cars in his bay and work on them alternatively while he waits for parts for one and customer approval for another, why should he be punished if he is good and efficient?

 

Im not a big fan of flat rate, but if you think you can do the job as good as the tech and still beat book rate, why are you not doing it yourself? And if you cant, what is your complaint about paying book rate as long as the job is done properly?

[TwoTone]

I Experience comes in on how you estimate a job and if you screw up then it is on you.

 

LOL- pretty obvious you don't turn wrenches.

 

I had a Honda once, no idea what the hell happened to the axle, but it wouldn't come out, wasted 1/2 a day on it, finally the next morning the shop paid for a front knuckle to get it out of the shop.

 

Never had that happen in over 10 years of being a tech.

 

Had a Chrysler with rear AC, replaced the compressor and it failed catastrophically while being charged. Now I was taking apart the interior, flushing out lines, shop paying to replace the evaporator etc..

 

I'd love to know how experience gets you to the point, hey this axle job isn't going to be 2 hours it's 8. That compressor isn't 3 its 10.

 

The people that bitch about flat rate have never done the job so honestly their opinions hold little weight.

[laz]

Don’t turn wrenches professionally but I have done more than oil changes. My personal mechanic charges me for the job at hand and I am sure he has seen his share of tough jobs. Experience is when you see a shit job coming and you charge appropriately as opposed to overcharging for every job assuming that is going to turn to shit.

 

It’s like anything else and people that have half a brain can see when you are over charging. The outcome of that is that they’ll use your services once and won’t come back. Experience also teaches you to pass on some jobs because it is not worth your time.

[ncted]

$160 for an oil change and a visual inspection, is excessive. Parts cannot cost more than $40. It really cannot take more than half an hour to do the job, even if you were drinking a beer while the oil drained.

 

If they charged 70 bucks or so, more folks would probably get it done at the dealer. If the customer experience is good, they'd also likely be inclined to bring the vehicle in for other little jobs.

 

Does your dealer charge $160 for an oil change?

[tornichoe]

Does your dealer charge $160 for an oil change?

 

One of them where my wife takes her OB. Yup. For the 5000 mi service, But all they really do if change oil and top off the washer fluid.

 

We bought out car there, so they have this whole loyalty program deal; free car wash and loaner. And if we do all our services there, a set of tires, when they wear out. (But those damn bridgestones don't seem to be wearing out that fast)

 

We end up making a reservation and getting the loaner, because, why not! I'm paying for it, even though I don't really need one.

 

If the price was more reasonable, I would have just taken my legacy there too. But I end up doing my own. And with two oil changes, I've already almost paid off for the new floor jack, stands and the fumoto valve.

[ncted]

One of them where my wife takes her OB. Yup. For the 5000 mi service, But all they really do if change oil and top off the washer fluid.

 

We bought out car there, so they have this whole loyalty program deal; free car wash and loaner. And if we do all our services there, a set of tires, when they wear out. (But those damn bridgestones don't seem to be wearing out that fast)

 

We end up making a reservation and getting the loaner, because, why not! I'm paying for it, even though I don't really need one.

 

If the price was more reasonable, I would have just taken my legacy there too. But I end up doing my own. And with two oil changes, I've already almost paid off for the new floor jack, stands and the fumoto valve.

 

Well, at least you get tires.

 

The standard, no coupon, rate at my dealer is ~$75+tax for an oil change, tire rotation, car wash (rinse really), and inspection. If you buy a pre-paid 6-pack of those services, they give you a 50% discount, which makes it cheaper than the quick-change places, and any screw-ups will be covered by the people Subaru certifies to work on their cars.

[urdrwho]

In my 50 years of driving I've turned many a wrench.

I've changed everything from big hefty straight line 6 cylinder Jaguar engines, to a 1958 GMC bus with a pierced piston and had the heads done. All in the parking lot in the middle of nowhere.

 

I understand the what the heck of doing a job, where the normal easy turns difficult. Now that I am getting lazier I send more work to the two mechanics that I trust. They both charge for the hours worked and it is understood that there are times when the bolt just won't crack. I remember spending a half day on a front suspension piece that usually comes loose with a hammer whack. Had to heat that puppy and other methods to remove the darn thing.

 

I'm just not a fan of flat rating. I understand the business logistics of why they do it. Yep --- used to know a guy that ran service departments during his life and service is the profit center for car dealers. But because of flat rates, anyone that knows the real time it takes to do a brake job may (probably does) bulk at going to the dealer. If their rating system was more reasonable I would use the dealer more often and they would make up any lose on volume.

 

Then one may wonder about the experienced tech, what happens to them? Well people could ask to have the experienced guy because they know the job will get done in a reasonable time and the billable hours would be less than the inexperienced guy. The inexperienced guy --- what about him? Well his billable hour rate would be less than the experienced guy. Experienced guy = $100 and hour --- new guy $60. After all the shop isn't going to be paying the new inexperienced guy the same rate as the guy that is experienced and has been there for 20 years.

 

My independent guys are all my age and retiring soon. One only works half a year now and spends the other half in Florida. I will not be happy when I can no longer do the work and I am at the whim of the big shops.

 

Inspections are a big one! I got into a big argument with a big box shop. Both my independents were filled and I needed an inspection sticker. The big box mechanic took his finger and ran it across my wiper blade and say "you need new blades." Hm? I told him that the State inspection manual does not have the finger check method but states that if the wipers can clean in 3 swipes they are good to go. He was not going to use the method prescribed in the manual. I went home and printed the pages from the manual, returned to show the guy and then things got heated. In the end my blades passed but as my wife said --- have pity on most women.

 

That

LOL- pretty obvious you don't turn wrenches.

 

I had a Honda once, no idea what the hell happened to the axle, but it wouldn't come out, wasted 1/2 a day on it, finally the next morning the shop paid for a front knuckle to get it out of the shop.

 

Never had that happen in over 10 years of being a tech.

 

Had a Chrysler with rear AC, replaced the compressor and it failed catastrophically while being charged. Now I was taking apart the interior, flushing out lines, shop paying to replace the evaporator etc..

 

I'd love to know how experience gets you to the point, hey this axle job isn't going to be 2 hours it's 8. That compressor isn't 3 its 10.

 

The people that bitch about flat rate have never done the job so honestly their opinions hold little weight.

[tornichoe]

Well, at least you get tires.

It's still got more than 1/2 the thread depth and I've already overpaid for 2 services. If they don't wear out in 2 or 3 more services, I won't really be getting a "deal". It would be more like a payment plan. Pay $85 every 6mo/5k mi and get your tires after ~4yr/40k

 

The standard, no coupon, rate at my dealer is ~$75+tax for an oil change, tire rotation, car wash (rinse really), and inspection. If you buy a pre-paid 6-pack of those services, they give you a 50% discount, which makes it cheaper than the quick-change places, and any screw-ups will be covered by the people Subaru certifies to work on their cars.

 

 

I'd be absolutely fine paying $75 for an full syn oil change and rotation and use the occasional $5 or 10 off coupon if the timing worked out. And that is what I would consider a fair price considering the costs involved.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

oil changes run about $70 here although Walser Subaru will do it for $53, get car back half washed though :o

[securityguy]

I have always done this:

 

1. Go to Walmart and buy a 5 qt jug of Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil1 FULL SYNTHETIC

2. Take it to your dealer

3. Dealer uses MY oil and charges me about $6.50 for the filter and $20 for labor

4. Cost of the oil is about $23 and another $26.50 makes my oil changes about $50

5. Get my free car wash too!

[vtdog]

I have always done this:

 

1. Go to Walmart and buy a 5 qt jug of Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil1 FULL SYNTHETIC

2. Take it to your dealer

3. Dealer uses MY oil and charges me about $6.50 for the filter and $20 for labor

4. Cost of the oil is about $23 and another $26.50 makes my oil changes about $50

5. Get my free car wash too!

 

Here is the problem with the above that I experienced at a dealer when I had a VW: I brought Mobil 1 into the dealer and asked that it be used. They had a window you could use to look into the service bays and I saw the lube monkey pump in oil from the dealer barrel into the car and put my 5 gal jug of Mobil 1 on the side of his tool bench.

Needless to say, the dealer denied it happened (even though I showed him the jug on the floor). It was the last time I went to that dealer and the last VW I ever bought as VW complaint central just blew me off.

[tornichoe]

I have always done this:

 

1. Go to Walmart and buy a 5 qt jug of Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil1 FULL SYNTHETIC

2. Take it to your dealer

3. Dealer uses MY oil and charges me about $6.50 for the filter and $20 for labor

4. Cost of the oil is about $23 and another $26.50 makes my oil changes about $50

5. Get my free car wash too!

 

It really depends on the dealer. The ones that want to charge you $160 won't let you use your own oil or will still want to charge you the same price.